****Cowboys 2016 Offseason Thread***

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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Orlando Ayala Cant Read • 2:07p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
The only team drafting a QB for sure in front of us is Cleveland at 2. I don't think there is any way the Chargers go QB at 3.

Who is going to draft Wentz?

I'd bet big money that all the QB's minus Goff will be there for us at 4. And that's when we'll be able to move down with a team that wants Wentz.

That being said... I don't like the way Wentz throws. I don't like his injury history. He's a bottom half of the 1st round reach IMO.

Cowboys beat writer yesterday said Wentz showed some good things, but also had some pretty ugly moments as well.

I've been saying all along I don't see Dallas take a QB in the first 2 rounds but I especially don't see it if Wentz has any question marks or inconsistencies.

I'll say it one more time....with about 90% I can say that I believe the Jones' see the team as being literally 3-4 players away from a title run. Those players might be...


  • A good backup QB (I think Manziel or RG3 will fit their definition of that while also letting them evaluate either for the role of future franchise QB)
  • A real presence at interior DL (this could come either via FA or in the 2nd round)
  • Another real presence at LB (again, could possibly be draft or FA)

Areas that really should be addressed if you wana cover your bases but might not be:


  • Safety. They have let this position linger for so long and Church and Wilcox are just not championship guys. Both play out of position a lot, and both take horrible angles even with all the experience they are building up. Dallas truly could use a playmaker back there and since they have been pretty disciplined about not overpaying for guys recently, maybe its time they splurge to finally fill this need. Eric Berry really comes to mind here but I don't see KC letting him walk.
  • Offensive playmaker. This could be either RB or WR. They need another threat. Guys like Treadwell and Elliot come to mind but there might be some value there in the 2nd and 3rd rounds also. Hopefully Dunbar comes back at 100%. Cole Beasely while able to make catches at times disappears for large chunks of time too.


I'm on record as saying that I think the pick will be Jaken Ramsey.

I'll disagree with your backup ideas of Manziel or Griffin. I'd go with Colt McCoy over those two any day for a couple of reasons:

(1) If you sign Manziel, you'll have to deal with all the distraction. You thought it was bad in Cleveland? Wait til he gets back to the big lights of DFW.

(2) If you sign Griffin as a backup, you have to sign another quarterback. For as fragile as Romo is, Griffin is even worse. The guy was absolutely despised in the locker room and refused to even be in the same room as Kirk Cousins. It's never good when your lineman don't like you.

(3) Money. manziel and Griffin probably are deluded enough to believe that they can start in this league. They will be looking for money and years. Not big money, mind you, but more than you want to pay quarterbacks who haven't done anything on the field. McCoy will come at a cheaper price and would most likely agree to a 2-year deal.

Another option would be Chase Daniel, but he is a prized backup who will command a significant salary for the position. They need to find their Sorgi/Rosenfels. They drafted McGee for that purpose, but he flamed out.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:26p, 1/27/16
The hype train happens every year for at least 1 QB.. Not surprised Joel would say that.. But let's be real.. Wentz was the "best" player on the field? Really?

I read on CBS and Bleacher Report that he struggled, at least early on, yesterday. Not that I believe much of what comes out of Bleacher Report.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 2:34p, 1/27/16
quote:
The hype train happens every year for at least 1 QB.. Not surprised Joel would say that.. But let's be real.. Wentz was the "best" player on the field? Really?

I read on CBS and Bleacher Report that he struggled, at least early on, yesterday. Not that I believe much of what comes out of Bleacher Report.
Here's How Carson Wentz Fits In Dallas

This article summarizes much of what I'm saying. It also talks about "struggles" of throwing to new receivers and an offense that you've run for one day. Good stuff.
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BassCowboy33
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2:36p, 1/27/16
Carson Wentz is Separating Himself From Everyone Else
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Ryan34
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2:38p, 1/27/16
AG
The highest FCS QB ever drafted was Flacco at #18. I think Garropolo was the 2nd highest and he was a 2nd rounder.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Ryan34 • 2:42p, 1/27/16
quote:
The highest FCS QB ever drafted was Flacco at #18. I think Garropolo was the 2nd highest and he was a 2nd rounder.
Steve McNair went #3 from Alcorn State.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 2:43p, 1/27/16
These tweets and articles are what I'm talking about. He'll be hyped until he's freaking Joe Montana reborn with a stronger arm and prettier smile. 2/10 WNB

Steven Jones is probably going to hype him too. It benefits him to say nothing but glowing things about Wentz to trade out of the pick or force some other poor team like the Jets to trade their souls away to get ahead of the Cowboys to get him.

Now if Steve McNair was in the draft, I'd take him. But, he's the only FCS QB i'd take in the 1st round.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 2:44p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
The highest FCS QB ever drafted was Flacco at #18. I think Garropolo was the 2nd highest and he was a 2nd rounder.
Steve McNair went #3 from Alcorn State.
The issue with these guys is the level of competition. It's hard to determine they're really that good or if they're just a step above the prawns.

Also, I believe that Wentz was something like 5'08" when he arrived at NDS (or around that time) and made like David Robinson and shot up to 6'05" while there, which would explain the lack of top tier recruiting.
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Ryan34
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 2:46p, 1/27/16
AG
quote:
quote:
The highest FCS QB ever drafted was Flacco at #18. I think Garropolo was the 2nd highest and he was a 2nd rounder.
Steve McNair went #3 from Alcorn State.

Then the article I read was being extra technical about FCS vs Division I-AA or had some time qualifier on it. My apologies.
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Ryan34
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 2:47p, 1/27/16
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
The highest FCS QB ever drafted was Flacco at #18. I think Garropolo was the 2nd highest and he was a 2nd rounder.
Steve McNair went #3 from Alcorn State.
The issue with these guys is the level of competition. It's hard to determine they're really that good or if they're just a step above the prawns.

Also, I believe that Wentz was something like 5'08" when he arrived at NDS (or around that time) and made like David Robinson and shot up to 6'05" while there, which would explain the lack of top tier recruiting.

He was 5'8" as a freshman in HS, not college. He couldn't play QB until his senior year of HS because of shoulder injuries, which contributed to why he wasn't really recruited.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 2:54p, 1/27/16
quote:
These tweets and articles are what I'm talking about. He'll be hyped until he's freaking Joe Montana reborn with a stronger arm and prettier smile. 2/10 WNB

Steven Jones is probably going to hype him too. It benefits him to say nothing but glowing things about Wentz to trade out of the pick or force some other poor team like the Jets to trade their souls away to get ahead of the Cowboys to get him.

Now if Steve McNair was in the draft, I'd take him. But, he's the only FCS QB i'd take in the 1st round.
And we have the benefit of hindsight for McNair. This is how these things work:

(1) Why are they taking Quarterback X so high, he doesn't [insert negative]?
(2) People bring up the annual argument that year's crop of quarterbacks isn't as good as the previous year.
(3) Team Drafts Quarterback X. General thinking is that he was taken too high. Nevermind the fact that it's the most important position and stats clearly show the value of the 1st round QB.
(4) Quarterback X starts or initially rides the pine. He plays well.
(5) A few years down the road, he becomes the guy everyone uses as a comparison. They knew then that he was a sure thing.

It's so frustrating. Aaron Rodgers couldn't throw the deep ball.
Flacco played at Delaware.
Drew Brees was a one read quarterback that ran too much
Peyton Manning lacked arm strength
Cam Newton ran the read option every play
Tom Brady would be a practice squad player and struggled to throw the ball outside the hash marks

These guys ALL had flaws. The only reason Wentz was a projected 2nd round guy was his lack of competition. He's not a guy who is being hyped up. He is an unknown that's just being discovered.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Ryan34 • 2:55p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
The highest FCS QB ever drafted was Flacco at #18. I think Garropolo was the 2nd highest and he was a 2nd rounder.
Steve McNair went #3 from Alcorn State.
The issue with these guys is the level of competition. It's hard to determine they're really that good or if they're just a step above the prawns.

Also, I believe that Wentz was something like 5'08" when he arrived at NDS (or around that time) and made like David Robinson and shot up to 6'05" while there, which would explain the lack of top tier recruiting.

He was 5'8" as a freshman in HS, not college. He couldn't play QB until his senior year of HS because of shoulder injuries, which contributed to why he wasn't really recruited.

Ah, got it. Saw that mentioned in an article somewhere and couldn't remember where it came from.
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Ryan34
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3:00p, 1/27/16
AG
I like Wentz a lot, but don't see Dallas drafting him or any other QB in the 1st. They have too much invested in Romo and want to try to win a Super Bowl with him.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Ryan34 • 3:09p, 1/27/16
quote:
I like Wentz a lot, but don't see Dallas drafting him or any other QB in the 1st. They have too much invested in Romo and want to try to win a Super Bowl with him.

The problem with this is that the evidence is showing us that Tony can't be counted on for 15 or 16 games.

I really think that if Goff or Wentz are there at 4, it is irresponsible to not take them. You are not going to do jack in this league without a QB.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Ryan34 • 3:12p, 1/27/16
quote:
I like Wentz a lot, but don't see Dallas drafting him or any other QB in the 1st. They have too much invested in Romo and want to try to win a Super Bowl with him.

While I agree that they probably will not, my fear is that Dallas will never have this good of a chance to get a QB again. Dallas could go through last season 100 times and probably doesn't finish that poorly more than small handful.

It becomes the Troy Aikman theory. If you start picking between 18-30 each year, getting a franchise quarterback becomes infinitely more difficult. You'd almost have to go through an Indianapolis scenario where you just go 1-15 for a year and get the top pick, but even then Dallas would most likely not be that bad. Next thing you know, you're running on 5-8 years with a revolving door of quarterbacks, because you didn't take advantage of the opportunity when it was there. Then, seemingly "wasting" Romo's last couple of years will pale in comparison to wasting a 5-7 years of the offensive talent you already have.

Also, "Win Now" and "plan for the future" are not mutually exclusive lines of thinking. Dallas can easily get a QB and still fill serious needs at other positions.

If you aren't going to take a QB, then you have to look at the other three do-or-die NFL postions: LT, Pass Rushing End, and Shutdown Corner. Dallas doesn't need the LT, which leaves pass rushing end and corner/safety, which is why I think Ramsey is the guy.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Macarthur • 3:13p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
I like Wentz a lot, but don't see Dallas drafting him or any other QB in the 1st. They have too much invested in Romo and want to try to win a Super Bowl with him.

The problem with this is that the evidence is showing us that Tony can't be counted on for 15 or 16 games.

I really think that if Goff or Wentz are there at 4, it is irresponsible to not take them. You are not going to do jack in this league without a QB.
If Dallas takes a QB, he will not be the #2 next year. Dallas will go out and get a backup, so that the young player can ride the pine and learn the game. They do not want to throw him to the wolves.

That does have one big benefit. You can sign a QB for only a year, at which point Wentz should be ready to be a backup if need be.

It should be noted that this is calculated. The reason you do this is so that if Romo goes down in the middle of a game, the young QB isn't thrust into playing. What you may very well do is give the kid a week to prepare and then start him in the next game after that, but that's only if the season has already been lost or his progression is so immediate that he gives you the best chance to win.
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COOL LASER FALCON
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 3:28p, 1/27/16
I've seen that thrown out quite a bit, but having the #4 overall pick not even active most games seems crazy.
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Macarthur
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3:33p, 1/27/16
I agree that seems crazy, but it's the diff at looking at this thing 5 years from now instead of months.
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Ryan34
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3:38p, 1/27/16
AG
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Ryan34 • 3:49p, 1/27/16
quote:
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.

What if the 2nd round guy can't play?
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Ryan34 • 3:49p, 1/27/16
quote:
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.


Large problem with this line of thinking. Quarterback is far and away the most difficult and exposed position in football. You're making this pick, because you want this to be the starter in 2020, 2025, and 2030. If you think long term and not immediate gratification, it makes a lot more sense.

Plus, anyone who watches Prescott knows he won't be in the league in five years. He's only a little better than Hackenberg. God help Dallas if they waste a 2nd on him, especially since most analysts have him as a 6th-7th round pick.
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Ryan34
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In reply to Macarthur • 3:50p, 1/27/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.

What if the 2nd round guy can't play?

What if your top 5 pick can't play?
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Ryan34 • 3:56p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
quote:
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.

What if the 2nd round guy can't play?

What if your top 5 pick can't play?


Unfortunately, this is a QB driven league. If you don't take any risks, you can't complain about not getting any rewards. And taking any QB, no matter what anyone says, is a risk. Cam Newton is a great example of that. If you'd have put him with this year's crop of quarterbacks, there's is no way I'd say he was the best, but the guy has grown and been molded into a fantastic NFL QB. He definitely proved me wrong.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 4:02p, 1/27/16
Taking Kevin Hogan in the 2-4th round is a risk too. A risk I'd be thrilled with considering his competition, and what he's shown thru his time at a D-1 college running a pro system against good competition.

Wentz is a MUCH bigger risk than Kevin Hogan... And he costs more.
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PooDoo
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In reply to corleoneAg99 • 4:14p, 1/27/16
AG
quote:
Goff isn't without warts...his Utah tape is terrible. Still the smart money 3 months out is he and Wentz are top 10 guys. So yes, you have CLE who needs a QB but what is TEN or SD trade out to allow someone to jump in and get the guy they want?

I just think it's imperative Jerry sit tight at 4 and see what happens...again they could easily be a good trade down team if one of those guys does get to 4. They could use the extra draft depth for sure.
Goff's tape against Utah wasn't terrible. 3 of the picks weren't really on him... His o-line was struggling.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 4:17p, 1/27/16
quote:
Taking Kevin Hogan in the 2-4th round is a risk too. A risk I'd be thrilled with considering his competition, and what he's shown thru his time at a D-1 college running a pro system against good competition.

Wentz is a MUCH bigger risk than Kevin Hogan... And he costs more.


Hogan reminds me a lot of Byron Leftwich with that elongated throwing motion and tendency to hold the ball. Barring a good pro day, should be available in Rounds 5-7. While better than Hackenberg and Prescott, he will probably project to be a career backup or Trent Dilfer type.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to PooDoo • 4:19p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
Goff isn't without warts...his Utah tape is terrible. Still the smart money 3 months out is he and Wentz are top 10 guys. So yes, you have CLE who needs a QB but what is TEN or SD trade out to allow someone to jump in and get the guy they want?

I just think it's imperative Jerry sit tight at 4 and see what happens...again they could easily be a good trade down team if one of those guys does get to 4. They could use the extra draft depth for sure.
Goff's tape against Utah wasn't terrible. 3 of the picks weren't really on him... His o-line was struggling.


I've never seen a college QB with as much pocket awareness as Goff. It's unbelievable how well he moves within the pocket for a young guy out of college. This, more than anything else, is why I think he will be the first QB off the board.
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PooDoo
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 4:20p, 1/27/16
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.

What if the 2nd round guy can't play?

What if your top 5 pick can't play?


Unfortunately, this is a QB driven league. If you don't take any risks, you can't complain about not getting any rewards. And taking any QB, no matter what anyone says, is a risk. Cam Newton is a great example of that. If you'd have put him with this year's crop of quarterbacks, there's is no way I'd say he was the best, but the guy has grown and been molded into a fantastic NFL QB. He definitely proved me wrong.
Really? Cam was a near consensus #1. It was Cam and everyone else.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to PooDoo • 4:25p, 1/27/16
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Using a top 5 pick on a 3rd stringer is nuts. If that's the plan, wait until the 2nd round and get a developmental guy like Prescott or whoever.

What if the 2nd round guy can't play?

What if your top 5 pick can't play?


Unfortunately, this is a QB driven league. If you don't take any risks, you can't complain about not getting any rewards. And taking any QB, no matter what anyone says, is a risk. Cam Newton is a great example of that. If you'd have put him with this year's crop of quarterbacks, there's is no way I'd say he was the best, but the guy has grown and been molded into a fantastic NFL QB. He definitely proved me wrong.
Really? Cam was a near consensus #1. It was Cam and everyone else.


Don't confuse consensus with product. There were serious, serious doubts about his character, awful footwork, and accuracy. Couple that with having never having to read a defense and Cam was viewed as a project (In this, most projections were wrong. He came during out of the gate, before slowing down and then adjusting to the game). To his credit he worked out all those kinks, minus the accuracy (which to be fair jumped from 57% to 64% over the last half of this year). Also, being the top pick has more to do with the "Who" rather than the "What". Carolina just happened to need a QB.

He was never viewed as any kind of sure thing and Carolina took a huge risk taking him at that spot.
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BassCowboy33
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4:37p, 1/27/16
Loving this discussion. So many different directions this team could go.

I'm out for the evening. You folks have a good one!
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Ryan34
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4:47p, 1/27/16
AG
Cam is a freak. Tall, thick, athletic and rocket for an arm. Even if you take away his running ability, his quick release and arm strength allow him to make throws others simply can't make. He's the opposite of a guy like Goff.

I think you guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment if you're expecting the Cowboys to take a QB in the top 5. Teams don't draft backups in the top 5. It just doesn't happen.

If you want to use Carolina as a model, look at how many first round picks they've spent on their front 7. That's what Dallas should do IMO.
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gigem1223
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5:17p, 1/27/16
We need a playmaker on defense. Give me the kid out of FSU. Gives us another versatile DB similar to Jones.
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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In reply to Macarthur • 5:23p, 1/27/16
AG
quote:
quote:
I like Wentz a lot, but don't see Dallas drafting him or any other QB in the 1st. They have too much invested in Romo and want to try to win a Super Bowl with him.

The problem with this is that the evidence is showing us that Tony can't be counted on for 15 or 16 games.

I really think that if Goff or Wentz are there at 4, it is irresponsible to not take them. You are not going to do jack in this league without a QB.

I know Romo is unlikely to start 16 games each of the next 2-3 seasons. But I also think the "Romo is unreliable" narrative is a bit overdone. I'm guessing the Cowboys see things that way too.

Games played by Romo:

2015: 4
2014: 15
2013: 15
2012: 16
2011: 16
2010: 6
2009: 16
2008:13
2007:16
2006: 16


He's not as injury prone (in the sense that he misses a bunch of games) as a lot of people think.


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corleoneAg99
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In reply to PooDoo • 5:39p, 1/27/16
AG
Agree to disagree...I've watched it and he did not look good to me. Point being that he's no sure thing at this point either and Wentz's measureables may push him over the top. Cheers.
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Agnzona
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6:21p, 1/27/16
Cowboys to draft Braxton Miller with the #4 pick, punt returner, 3rd WR and backup QB! Solves so many problems....
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