Personally, I'm hoping for Elliott. I guess I'm the rare individual who believes elite RBs can make your offense. And Elliott is that guy.
****Cowboys 2016 Offseason Thread***
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Last: 7 yr ago by jr15aggie
quote:
Personally, I'm hoping for Elliott. I guess I'm the rare individual who believes elite RBs can make your offense. And Elliott is that guy.
I'm right there with you. Romo's only chance to stay healthy is with an elite running game an elite line alone is not enough to keep him upright for the whole season.
This offense can't have Dez Bryant as it's best player if they plan on having success in the playoffs.
quote:quote:
Personally, I'm hoping for Elliott. I guess I'm the rare individual who believes elite RBs can make your offense. And Elliott is that guy.
I'm right there with you. Romo's only chance to stay healthy is with an elite running game an elite line alone is not enough to keep him upright for the whole season.
This offense can't have Dez Bryant as it's best player if they plan on having success in the playoffs.
The problem is that it isn't worth using a #4 pick on a guy who will only be on your team for 4-8 seasons and whose career arc declines sharply in his late twenties.
Moot point anyway. Welcome to Dallas, Alfred Morris.
The effects of signing Morris are several:
(1) It allows Dallas to focus a 2-3 RD pick away from running back. You can now stock on d-lineman.
(2) It adequately pushes the need to draft a stalwart runner back another year.
(3) You have a runner who is awful catching passes. I think he has something like 43 catches for his entire career.
Who knows, maybe his career will McFadden for Dallas.
(1) It allows Dallas to focus a 2-3 RD pick away from running back. You can now stock on d-lineman.
(2) It adequately pushes the need to draft a stalwart runner back another year.
(3) You have a runner who is awful catching passes. I think he has something like 43 catches for his entire career.
Who knows, maybe his career will McFadden for Dallas.
Love it. Now they can look for a later round back and build the DLine.
I think Bill Parcells rubbed off on Stephen Jones a little bit, if not Jerry himself. We're gonna build this thing from the inside out!
I think Bill Parcells rubbed off on Stephen Jones a little bit, if not Jerry himself. We're gonna build this thing from the inside out!
Love the Morris signing
What is wrong with McFadden?
I wouldn't say I love the Morris singing... Its ok I guess. The Redskins ran him into the ground and his production has gotten worse.
I'm fine that it helps us to not be forced into taking a RB early. But I'm still wondering if a guy like Elliot would make our offense elite. I'm still tempted by him because I'd rather have one group be really strong instead of our O and D both just being OK or above average.
I'm fine that it helps us to not be forced into taking a RB early. But I'm still wondering if a guy like Elliot would make our offense elite. I'm still tempted by him because I'd rather have one group be really strong instead of our O and D both just being OK or above average.
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I wouldn't say I love the Morris singing... Its ok I guess. The Redskins ran him into the ground and his production has gotten worse.
I'm fine that it helps us to not be forced into taking a RB early. But I'm still wondering if a guy like Elliot would make our offense elite. I'm still tempted by him because I'd rather have one group be really strong instead of our O and D both just being OK or above average.
Think of it this way: Dallas didn't go 4-12 last year, because they didn't have running backs. They went 4-12, because they couldn't pass the football and received terrible QB play.
Raiders failed to match Mayowa. Dallas gets him on a 3-year, $8.25 mil deal. Only one position of need that hasn't been addressed...
They are getting decent bodies in places of need, and on the relative cheap. I haven't seen the details on Morris' deal, but I can't imagine it was very lucrative. If it was, then I may change my mind. But overall, it seems like they are doing some necessary dirty work that will help the team while not damaging the cap.
quote:
They are getting decent bodies in places of need, and on the relative cheap. I haven't seen the details on Morris' deal, but I can't imagine it was very lucrative. If it was, then I may change my mind. But overall, it seems like they are doing some necessary dirty work that will help the team while not damaging the cap.
Yes, not mortgaging the future on Joey Galloway.
The Texans made the playoffs with close to the same if not worse QB play. But they had a defense & running game to lean on.
Alfred Morris might have some tread left on his tires but he is an extremely one dimensional back. No threat at all out of the back field as a receiver... The dude struggles catching tosses.
Thinking Morris' 2 yr deal is a reason to pass on a player with elite potential is crazy.
Alfred Morris might have some tread left on his tires but he is an extremely one dimensional back. No threat at all out of the back field as a receiver... The dude struggles catching tosses.
Thinking Morris' 2 yr deal is a reason to pass on a player with elite potential is crazy.
Morris signing was super cheap and he should excel in the zone scheme...Dallas OL is pretty superior to what Washington was rolling out.
I also don't think it has any impact on taking RB in the draft other than in the first round which honestly is a poor use of draft resources IMO anyway.
I also don't think it has any impact on taking RB in the draft other than in the first round which honestly is a poor use of draft resources IMO anyway.
quote:Nothing is wrong with him. McFadden with 15+ touches and Morris with 10+ touches a year behind our OLine would be a good tandem. I think McFadden is a solid running back, but there is no doubt that we needed a good #2 that was capable of shouldering the load with McFadden's injury history.
What is wrong with McFadden?
We've addressed most positions of need. A great SS would be key if there was one in the draft. I'm not sure that one is available. Ramsey at #4 would be a great pick if we committed to playing a 2 high safety system.
Really hoping we can secure a trade back.
The 2nd round pick is going to amount to a really good player, as well. I'm really excited about this draft for the Cowboys.
As painful as the season was, Mcfadden was the NFL's 4th leading rusher last year. Find a decent player like Morris where they can tandem with fresh legs, I think that is a formidable rushing attack with this OL. Could it be better with a stud draftee? Marginally. But you're also counting on that rookie RB to protect Romo from blitzes.
quote:You're also counting on that rookie running back to make that transition. It's not uncommon for top college backs to fall flat in the NFL. You can't be "elite" if you've never played an NFL down.
As painful as the season was, Mcfadden was the NFL's 4th leading rusher last year. Find a decent player like Morris where they can tandem with fresh legs, I think that is a formidable rushing attack with this OL. Could it be better with a stud draftee? Marginally. But you're also counting on that rookie RB to protect Romo from blitzes.
Also, with three backs on the roster (Dunbar, Morris, McFadden), it'd be beyond stunning if Dallas wasted a high pick on a back at this point, unless something like a Henry falls. In that scenario, Dallas will likely cut McFadden. Most teams don't carry four running backs on a roster, unless one of those is a serious special teams contributor, which neither of those three are at this point in their careers (Dunbar can return kickoffs/punts, but Dallas will likely limit his exposure after last season). For those of you in the "win now" crowd, you don't want to spend a top pick on a guy who might see 5-10 snaps per game and be 4th on the depth chart. For those in the "win for the next 15 years" crowd, spending a high pick, especially a first rounder, on someone you don't plan on being here in 2023 is poor form. Couple that with how easy it is to find good, solid backs in later rounds, this whole discussion doesn't make a lot of sense.
What is more likely is that this frees Dallas to draft heavy on defense. You'll likely see a QB sprinkled somewhere in Rd 1-3, at least three picks addressing line depth, a linebacker, and cornerback. The front office has done a great job keeping their intentions a secret. Mock drafts are all over the board.
No one that is on the draft board coming out of college was higher rated than McFadden. You don't spend a No. 4 on a running back. The game has changed that much over the years.
This is something that perplexes me about people talking about the draft. Carson Wentz at No.4? I introduce you to Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, etc. Carson Wentz, if he were ready to tear the league a new a-hole would not be coming out of North Dakota State. So Elliot (yes, a tremendous player) is not better than McFadden. Not even remotely. So think about that. What makes Carson Wentz or Elliot or any other draft pick any different than the busts that have come before them? Nothing.
The Cowboys need help on defense. Shore that up. Get a pass rusher.
This is something that perplexes me about people talking about the draft. Carson Wentz at No.4? I introduce you to Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, etc. Carson Wentz, if he were ready to tear the league a new a-hole would not be coming out of North Dakota State. So Elliot (yes, a tremendous player) is not better than McFadden. Not even remotely. So think about that. What makes Carson Wentz or Elliot or any other draft pick any different than the busts that have come before them? Nothing.
The Cowboys need help on defense. Shore that up. Get a pass rusher.
I like you... I like you, alot..
It's not that I am strictly opposed to the cowboys drafting a QB at #4 if they were sure that QB was a stud muffin. I don't think that's the case here, and I don't even think it's remotely close. I think both QBs have a substantially higher probability of being Blaine Gabbert than they do of even being Nick Foles.
These guys are 2nd-3rd round picks in almost any other draft of recent past.
It's not that I am strictly opposed to the cowboys drafting a QB at #4 if they were sure that QB was a stud muffin. I don't think that's the case here, and I don't even think it's remotely close. I think both QBs have a substantially higher probability of being Blaine Gabbert than they do of even being Nick Foles.
These guys are 2nd-3rd round picks in almost any other draft of recent past.
quote:While I agree with your first point, I believe your quarterback comparisons to be rather unfair. Gabbert and Locker were both mediocre college quarterbacks. Gabbert had average college stats, but rose up boards because of the arm strength fallacy. In Locker's case, he was downright bad. You can add Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel to the list as well. They were all poor/mediocre quarterbacks that people talked themselves into taking. Dallas is having to talk themselves OUT OF taking a quarterback.The reasons that Wentz attended NDS have been well documented. It's not as if he wasn't good enough, but rather he was a late bloomer whose high school years were marred by injury and a lack of size. His high school college arc followed a similar trajectory of LaDanian Tomlinson, who only had offers from TCU and North Texas coming out of high school. If you want to compare his arc to a college quarterback, that needs to be Flacco, McNair, Romo, or another small school guy that had the same issue getting scholarship offers.
No one that is on the draft board coming out of college was higher rated than McFadden. You don't spend a No. 4 on a running back. The game has changed that much over the years.
This is something that perplexes me about people talking about the draft. Carson Wentz at No.4? I introduce you to Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, etc. Carson Wentz, if he were ready to tear the league a new a-hole would not be coming out of North Dakota State. So Elliot (yes, a tremendous player) is not better than McFadden. Not even remotely. So think about that. What makes Carson Wentz or Elliot or any other draft pick any different than the busts that have come before them? Nothing.
The Cowboys need help on defense. Shore that up. Get a pass rusher.
McFadden & Felix were amazing college running backs. I was stunned that they flamed out like they did.
quote:The issue is that, besides Andrew Luck, there hasn't been a "stud muffin" QB in the draft for the last twenty years. I'm a child of the 80's and i can't remember any "must have" QB studs. There was a large contingent of people who wanted Dallas to take Mandarich over Aikman, many pundits wanted Leaf over Manning, Rogers was too small and from a spread system, Roethlisberger was a small school guy. The list can go on forever. Quarterback is easily the hardest position to draft and the hardest to evaluate. It's also the most important position in the game, which is why teams almost always take a QB higher than they should go. In fact, the arguments against taking a QB, no matter the name, are almost always the same every year.
I like you... I like you, alot..
It's not that I am strictly opposed to the cowboys drafting a QB at #4 if they were sure that QB was a stud muffin. I don't think that's the case here, and I don't even think it's remotely close. I think both QBs have a substantially higher probability of being Blaine Gabbert than they do of even being Nick Foles.
These guys are 2nd-3rd round picks in almost any other draft of recent past.
quote:
These guys are 2nd-3rd round picks in almost any other draft of recent past.
I do not think that is true. I think Goff is a top 10 pick in any draft, any year.
quote:I think in past drafts you might have seen Wentz go between 10-15. Goff has been a hot commodity for years. His footwork and intangibles are the best I've ever seen in a college quarterback. Just an unbelievable ability to manipulate the pocket for a college kid.quote:
These guys are 2nd-3rd round picks in almost any other draft of recent past.
I do not think that is true. I think Goff is a top 10 pick in any draft, any year.
Think about this: Bryce Petty went in the 4th Round. 4th Rd!! Goff and Wentz are both light years ahead of him. Heck, Kevin Hogan is light years ahead of him and his footwork is a rendition of Riverdance.
By your logic, then QBs like Steve McNair, Romo, Roethlisberger, Flacco, etc would not be good NFL QBs because they didn't goto the big college programs.
quote:In the words of Tony Romo, "I don't care where a guy played. I want to know if he can read defenses and move in the pocket. If you can't do those, all the size and arm strength in the world can't help you."
By your logic, then QBs like Steve McNair, Romo, Roethlisberger, Flacco, etc would not be good NFL QBs because they didn't goto the big college programs.
I'm not wild about the value of any of the non-qb's that appear to be available at 4. If they aren't going Qb, I would like to see them trade down to 7-12.
And that's partly why I'm good with taking a risk on one of those 2 QB's. I really like them both, and as far as risk goes, it's not like they are looking at a "can't miss" alternative.
And that's partly why I'm good with taking a risk on one of those 2 QB's. I really like them both, and as far as risk goes, it's not like they are looking at a "can't miss" alternative.
quote:
I'm not wild about the value of any of the non-qb's that appear to be available at 4. If they aren't going Qb, I would like to see them trade down to 7-12.
And that's partly why I'm good with taking a risk on one of those 2 QB's. I really like them both, and as far as risk goes, it's not like they are looking at a "can't miss" alternative.
I tend to agree with this. If it's not going to be QB, I would prefer a trade back.
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I'm hoping the Rams really really like one of those QBs enough to trade up from 15 to get him.
Maybe they like him enough to trade that 15th and then both of their 2nd rounders? Long shot but a guy can dream.
Maybe they like him enough to trade that 15th and then both of their 2nd rounders? Long shot but a guy can dream.
Morris was pretty beat up and ineffective by the end of last year. Hope he still has something left but the Skins worked him hard and he takes a lot of punishment. However, if Romo gets dinged, even just a little, the season is pretty much over regardless of who's running the ball, however, it would be a great time to break in the new QB like Winston last year or Carr the year before, otherwise, the following year will be wasted too. Just take Goff. Its the smart move.
I agree with all of you that Morris is good enough to not force our hand in the draft. I am completely on board with Dallas getting guys on the cheap now so that we aren't "Joey Gallowaying" ourselves at any point.
But it shouldn't keep them away from Elliot if he is the best guy on the board. I agree a RB at #4 isn't necessarily the best idea in today's NFL, but if, for example, Bosa is gonna be just another guy in the NFL (like Bobby Carpenter), I'd rather have the RB that is gonna scare defenses and be a STUD for 4-8 years than gamble on DE that may play OK for 10 years.
It all goes back to the main point... don't miss at #4. I'm no expert... none of us are... but right now it's looking like Ramsey and Elliot are the closest thing to "plug and play" (and play well) we are gonna get right now. If not that then get a QB that can possibly be our future. I know we need D-line, but I'd rather stock up those guys in rounds 2-5 than shoot at #4 for a guy that ends up being an average Joe!
But it shouldn't keep them away from Elliot if he is the best guy on the board. I agree a RB at #4 isn't necessarily the best idea in today's NFL, but if, for example, Bosa is gonna be just another guy in the NFL (like Bobby Carpenter), I'd rather have the RB that is gonna scare defenses and be a STUD for 4-8 years than gamble on DE that may play OK for 10 years.
It all goes back to the main point... don't miss at #4. I'm no expert... none of us are... but right now it's looking like Ramsey and Elliot are the closest thing to "plug and play" (and play well) we are gonna get right now. If not that then get a QB that can possibly be our future. I know we need D-line, but I'd rather stock up those guys in rounds 2-5 than shoot at #4 for a guy that ends up being an average Joe!
I just can't get my mind around drafting RB at 4. The game has changed too much. Outside of AD who entered the league a decade ago (and NEVER won anything BTW), what rushers have consistently led and produced year after year after year? When I look at the list of active leading rushers, I'm completely underwhelmed. I mostly see players the either had a nice but brief spurt (chris Johnson), or guys that were able to be a little above average and just managed to stick around long enough (frank gore and steven jackson). I see very few difference makers to franchises. I'm pretty sure the top 12-13 active leading rushers have 0 titles between them. Zero.
Elliott looks like a nice back. I don't see transcendant though. I need that to even think about going RB at 4.
Elliott looks like a nice back. I don't see transcendant though. I need that to even think about going RB at 4.
quote:
I just can't get my mind around drafting RB at 4. The game has changed too much. Outside of AD who entered the league a decade ago (and NEVER won anything BTW), what rushers have consistently led and produced year after year after year? When I look at the list of active leading rushers, I'm completely underwhelmed. I mostly see players the either had a nice but brief spurt, or guys that were able to be a little above average and just managed to stick around long enough. I see very few difference makers to franchises.
Elliott looks like a nice back. I don't see transcendant though. I need that to even think about going RB at 4.
To be fair to Peterson, he has a physical and athletic makeup unlike any running back in football. I saw him play at Palestine and I still believe that he's the only player I've ever seen who could've gone straight from high school to the NFL.
Peterson is great, but that obvious transcendent type talent what I'm going to require to go RB at 4 these days. i dont see that in this draft.
I think we all agree that a RB at #4 is too high.
I don't have a good read on Ramsey to say he's the guy at 4.
Seems like 75-80% of the plays against Ohio St were ran away from Bosa & he was still very disruptive.
I feel Hargreaves tape makes him look like the top CB but he ran slow.
Buckner could be a special freak that could play anywhere on the line but it's still a gamble.
Jack has injury questions.
The only guys that I see as sure fire top 10 home runs are Tunsil & Elliott.
I don't have a good read on Ramsey to say he's the guy at 4.
Seems like 75-80% of the plays against Ohio St were ran away from Bosa & he was still very disruptive.
I feel Hargreaves tape makes him look like the top CB but he ran slow.
Buckner could be a special freak that could play anywhere on the line but it's still a gamble.
Jack has injury questions.
The only guys that I see as sure fire top 10 home runs are Tunsil & Elliott.
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