quote:
Probably in the minority but the Zeke film just didn't do much for me.
He very obviously had a tremendous offensive line and his moves out in space weren't that extraordinary. Doesn't seem to have great break away speed either.
****Cowboys 2016 Offseason Thread***
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Last: 8 yr ago by jr15aggie
Haha, I'm sry. I'm not good at listening to bull**** without calling it out.
Let's move on and pray Scandrick is back 100%, Claiborne has adjusted, McClain comes to camp in shape, and our DEs figure out how to get to the QB.
Quite possibly we may have a chance at Myles Garrett next year.
Let's move on and pray Scandrick is back 100%, Claiborne has adjusted, McClain comes to camp in shape, and our DEs figure out how to get to the QB.
Quite possibly we may have a chance at Myles Garrett next year.
quote:
Probably in the minority but the Zeke film just didn't do much for me.
He very obviously had a tremendous offensive line and his moves out in space weren't that extraordinary. Doesn't seem to have great break away speed either.
Lol
quote:
Probably in the minority but the Zeke film just didn't do much for me.
He very obviously had a tremendous offensive line and his moves out in space weren't that extraordinary. Doesn't seem to have great break away speed either.
He has great speed and strength. He's pretty complete.
The one thing I don't think we've seen a lot of is his ability to navigate traffic and make tough yards. And the reason I say that is that the OSU offense is designed to alway be running into a situation where the offense has numbers.
I"m not saying he can't do it, but it obviously is going to be much different running the football for Dallas than it was in Urban's offense.
He has great vision and change of direction. He is elusive but runs with power when he's bottled up. Reads and sets up blocks extremely well.
Just on that 85 yarder against Bama he exploded through a seam (not a hole), ran out of 2 arm tackles, and ate up the angle on the rest of the defense.
He's going to be a top 3 back by the end of the season.
Just on that 85 yarder against Bama he exploded through a seam (not a hole), ran out of 2 arm tackles, and ate up the angle on the rest of the defense.
He's going to be a top 3 back by the end of the season.
quote:In a way, that might be best case scenario. It isn't going to do us much good to go 10-6, get a late first round pick, then spend it on positions we don't need; however, along that line of thinking, Jerry would probably draft an LT with that pick.
Haha, I'm sry. I'm not good at listening to bull**** without calling it out.
Let's move on and pray Scandrick is back 100%, Claiborne has adjusted, McClain comes to camp in shape, and our DEs figure out how to get to the QB.
Quite possibly we may have a chance at Myles Garrett next year.
quote:Adrian Peterson, Doug Martin, and Todd Gurley. It's a little over the top saying Top 3, but as we've seen, you or me can run behind this line, so it's not out of line to expect 1,200 yds rushing and 10-13 Tds in Year 1. Randle/McFadden combined for over 1,400 yards in their starts, so we might even set the over/under at that.
He has great vision and change of direction. He is elusive but runs with power when he's bottled up. Reads and sets up blocks extremely well.
Just on that 85 yarder against Bama he exploded through a seam (not a hole), ran out of 2 arm tackles, and ate up the angle on the rest of the defense.
He's going to be a top 3 back by the end of the season.
What no one has mentioned is that we won't carry four backs on the opening roster. It would be feasible if one or more of those guys played special teams, but none of them do. So, out of McFadden, Morris, Dunbar, and Elliott, one of them won't make the roster. With McFadden's contract, you might be able to find a team willing to swap him for a 4th-5th Rd pick. Dallas won't trade Dunbar as he's the best open field runner on the team and was easily this team's best offensive player until his injury last year. Morris just signed, so I doubt that they'd cut him off the bat. So, my guess is that McFadden is the odd man out.
My guess is the eventual decision will be health related. Between Dunbar, Mcfadden, and Morris, someone will probably be dinged up. Mcfadden may be a decent bet.
Maybe I just missed it, but I'm surprised there isn't more moaning and groaning about the Jaylon Smith pick. That's the one that still bothers me. I might love the pick in 2017, but as far as 2016 is concerned we literally turned in our draft card to the commissioner and it said, "Pass". There were so many guys right there that would have either started or been a big contributor (Spence & Ragland come to mind but there are a handful of others that would have made sense too).
My problem with it is this... we earned the #4 pick just like we earned the 3rd pick in the second round. We earned it by sitting through a miserable season. And we literally threw the pick away as it relates to next year. That's too much IMO! There were 1st round graded players (that aren't hurt!) still on the board. What we should have done is drafted a real player and then waited patiently. Wouldn't have been that difficult to trade up with our early 3rd round pick if Jaylon dropped. And if he didn't drop oh well!
My problem with it is this... we earned the #4 pick just like we earned the 3rd pick in the second round. We earned it by sitting through a miserable season. And we literally threw the pick away as it relates to next year. That's too much IMO! There were 1st round graded players (that aren't hurt!) still on the board. What we should have done is drafted a real player and then waited patiently. Wouldn't have been that difficult to trade up with our early 3rd round pick if Jaylon dropped. And if he didn't drop oh well!
quote:
Maybe I just missed it, but I'm surprised there isn't more moaning and groaning about the Jaylon Smith pick. That's the one that still bothers me. I might love the pick in 2017, but as far as 2016 is concerned we literally turned in our draft card to the commissioner and it said, "Pass". There were so many guys right there that would have either started or been a big contributor (Spence & Ragland come to mind but there are a handful of others that would have made sense too).
My problem with it is this... we earned the #4 pick just like we earned the 3rd pick in the second round. We earned it by sitting through a miserable season. And we literally threw the pick away as it relates to next year. That's too much IMO! There were 1st round graded players (that aren't hurt!) still on the board. What we should have done is drafted a real player and then waited patiently. Wouldn't have been that difficult to trade up with our early 3rd round pick if Jaylon dropped. And if he didn't drop oh well!
This is where our philosophies separate. I'm ok with this as it's an attempt to help the team for the future. Before his injury, Smith was considered the best player in the draft. Would I have liked to have waited until Rd 3 or 4? Sure, but it's a gamble that could pay enormous dividends in the future.
2016 isn't a Super Bowl season. At best, it's another divisional round exit. At worst, it's another 4 win year. More than likely it'll be a 7-9 win season. This team won't take the next step until it fixes the defense. Unfortunately, it's been neglected for so long that it could take 2-4 years to adequately repair.
If we are in the same position I'll want Myles Garrett, but we'll need a QB
quote:This is quintessential Jerry. Drafting linebackers in the 2nd that won't play for an entire year and signing washed up baseball players to play quarterback. It doesn't get any more Jerry than that.
Maybe I just missed it, but I'm surprised there isn't more moaning and groaning about the Jaylon Smith pick.
But yes, it bugs me. You would think he would have learned his lession with Sean Lee. When you drafted a very talented but injured player, then you get a very talented but injured player. It's hard to think of a player that was drafted high with a major injury that didn't have constant injury problems in the pros. Frank Gore is the only one that comes to mind.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
quote:quote:This is quintessential Jerry. Drafting linebackers in the 2nd that won't play for an entire year and signing washed up baseball players to play quarterback. It doesn't get any more Jerry than that.
Maybe I just missed it, but I'm surprised there isn't more moaning and groaning about the Jaylon Smith pick.
But yes, it bugs me. You would think he would have learned his lession with Sean Lee. When you drafted a very talented but injured player, then you get a very talented but injured player. It's hard to think of a player that was drafted high with a major injury that didn't have constant injury problems in the pros. Frank Gore is the only one that comes to mind.
See, I kinda disagree. I think you can not let Sean Lee or Bruce Carter affect your evaluation of J. Smith.
The ticket said yesterday that the report out of Valley Ranch is that they believe Jaylon Smith is a 'generational' type of player. Now, you can snicker at that and laugh at Jerry, but the reality is that Will Clay is a guy that anothe rteam tried to hire away for a GM position. I think they have good football people in the scouting dept. I think it's fair to question their draft strategy, but for me, they have done a pretty good job of talent evaluation.
If you believe Smith is a generational talent, and you have inside info with regards to the doctor that did the surgery, I think they made a calculated risk and feel pretty good about it. Of course, we all have to wait to find out who's right, but I think the reflex of 'typical Jerry' is a bit superficial in this case.
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Id be careful of any talk outa Valley Ranch.
They tried to trade up using that pick and get Lynch. Either they had Lynch rated as a generational type player also or they are blowing smoke up our asses. Considering their history i think you gota at least give some consideration to the latter.
They tried to trade up using that pick and get Lynch. Either they had Lynch rated as a generational type player also or they are blowing smoke up our asses. Considering their history i think you gota at least give some consideration to the latter.
quote:They also thought Morris Claiborne was the greatest corner since Deion, and Houston thought Clowney was the greatest pass rusher to be drafted ever. I'm not saying our scouts are bad. I'm saying that even the best scouts are wrong all the time. I can almost guarantee that a linebacker taken after Smith in the draft will have a better career than him. Just like Navarro Bowman has had a better carreer than Sean Lee, was available at the pick, and played his entire rookie year. I just know in 4 years we will wish we had drafted someone at that spot that wasn't hurt and could have played.
If you believe Smith is a generational talent, and you have inside info with regards to the doctor that did the surgery, I think they made a calculated risk and feel pretty good about it. Of course, we all have to wait to find out who's right, but I think the reflex of 'typical Jerry' is a bit superficial in this case.
The bar for Smith to justify a high 2nd round pick and a year off is really high. He needs to be a multi-time all-pro with little or no injury problems down the line or this was a bad pick. It's Jerry swinging for the fences at every at bat and usually striking out.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
They tried to get Lynch with the pick, and then word was they wanted Ogbah or Dodd. Once those guys were all off the table, then the once-in-a-generation gamble of a pick became the guy.
quote:quote:They also thought Morris Claiborne was the greatest corner since Deion, and Houston thought Clowney was the greatest pass rusher to be drafted ever. I'm not saying our scouts are bad. I'm saying that even the best scouts are wrong all the time. I can almost guarantee that a linebacker taken after Smith in the draft will have a better career than him. Just like Navarro Bowman has had a better carreer than Sean Lee, was available at the pick, and played his entire rookie year. I just know in 4 years we will wish we had drafted someone at that spot that wasn't hurt and could have played.
If you believe Smith is a generational talent, and you have inside info with regards to the doctor that did the surgery, I think they made a calculated risk and feel pretty good about it. Of course, we all have to wait to find out who's right, but I think the reflex of 'typical Jerry' is a bit superficial in this case.
The bar for Smith to justify a high 2nd round pick and a year off is really high. He needs to be a multi-time all-pro with little or no injury problems down the line or this was a bad pick. It's Jerry swinging for the fences at every at bat and usually striking out.
I'm more upset that they spent the #4 pick on a position that they didn't need than using a 2nd to get a backer that's considered the best in the past few drafts.
The injury issue to me is moot. Linebacker and running back are the two shortest lived positions on the field. No matter who you take, statistics show that they'll miss a significant portion of their careers. That is partly why many of us didn't want a running back OR linebacker at #4. Gambling a 2nd on a guy who might only play 6-8 years is fine with me more than spending your top pick on a one contract running back.
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quote:
They tried to get Lynch with the pick, and then word was they wanted Ogbah or Dodd. Once those guys were all off the table, then the once-in-a-generation gamble of a pick became the guy.
Yep. But hey maybe ALL those guys are once in a generation type guys!
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They need an impact LB badly for 2016.
I really am fearing a terrible terrible D in 16. I think the organization thinks it can give Marinelli any mut of the street and he'll coach em up. Doesn't quite work that way on the front 7. They need reliable impact guys. And no Lee and McClain are far from reliable.
And we haven't even gotten into pass rush.
I really am fearing a terrible terrible D in 16. I think the organization thinks it can give Marinelli any mut of the street and he'll coach em up. Doesn't quite work that way on the front 7. They need reliable impact guys. And no Lee and McClain are far from reliable.
And we haven't even gotten into pass rush.
I'm all for the occasional risk/reward pick for a guy with talent but questions regarding injury, drugs, etc. But that risk/reward decision cannot be made in a vacuum. You have to consider the other risks you have in the overall position group (the front 7, in this case), and they have a front 7 absolutely FULL of risk.
With Smith, they are betting they are trading a high 2nd for a top 5 1st next year.
quote:quote:
They tried to get Lynch with the pick, and then word was they wanted Ogbah or Dodd. Once those guys were all off the table, then the once-in-a-generation gamble of a pick became the guy.
Yep. But hey maybe ALL those guys are once in a generation type guys!
In my mind, a "once in a generation" player is exactly that. It's that rare player that comes along that you are 100% certain will not only make the transition from college to pros, but be be Hall of Fame caliber. It's not someone like Emmitt Smith, who you can look back on in hindsight. In my lifetime, I feel that the only guys that I can say this about are Deion Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Sebastian Janikowski (feels weird saying that), and Andrew Luck. There hasn't been any other players that (immediately come to mind) I felt would just dominate the game coming out of college.
quote:Even so, they are only getting a max of 3 years production off his rookie contract instead of 4 with an option for 5 if they selected a LB in the 1st next year. That sets the bar that much higher for those 3 years.
With Smith, they are betting they are trading a high 2nd for a top 5 1st next year.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
So Zeke is a bad pick because he won't help the defense this year. And Smith is a bad pick because he won't help the defense this year.
I'm guessing JJ and the boys weren't as concerned about the defense as the rest of us. Truth be told, they have over achieved the last two years. And, they have spent some picks on the defense they just can't stay on the field. There is also some free agency left so we will see what they do next.
I'm guessing JJ and the boys weren't as concerned about the defense as the rest of us. Truth be told, they have over achieved the last two years. And, they have spent some picks on the defense they just can't stay on the field. There is also some free agency left so we will see what they do next.
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If you think they've over achieved with a bunch of jags and are still on a good day mediocre dont you think the wiser move would be adding tangible talent to that D so when Marinelli coaches em up they actually turn into a defense capable of winning a championship?
If they so badly wanted Elliott then use that Morris money on a good defender instead.
I think we can concede there is still time in the offseason and maybe those moves can still come. As is though this defense isn't winning any super bowls.
If they so badly wanted Elliott then use that Morris money on a good defender instead.
I think we can concede there is still time in the offseason and maybe those moves can still come. As is though this defense isn't winning any super bowls.
quote:quote:Even so, they are only getting a max of 3 years production off his rookie contract instead of 4 with an option for 5 if they selected a LB in the 1st next year. That sets the bar that much higher for those 3 years.
With Smith, they are betting they are trading a high 2nd for a top 5 1st next year.
If he's the generational player they think he is it will probably be better to be able to negotiate his 2nd before he's in his prime. They have the franchise tag if they need it.
quote:
If you think they've over achieved with a bunch of jags and are still on a good day mediocre dont you think the wiser move would be adding tangible talent to that D so when Marinelli coaches em up they actually turn into a defense capable of winning a championship?
If they so badly wanted Elliott then use that Morris money on a good defender instead.
I think we can concede there is still time in the offseason and maybe those moves can still come. As is though this defense isn't winning any super bowls.
The defense has a ton of question marks, no doubt. But I don't see how you can say with certainty that a rookie is going to be a better gamble than just getting some of the current guys to develop. Claiborne, Lawrence, T. Crawford, Jones and Gregory were all pretty high draft picks and Crawford is really the only guy who has been productive (giving a pass to Jones for his rookie season). Hitchens is still young and may improve.
And they did add a few intriguing players in rounds 3 through 7. My point Is they could get better and there is no guarantee a high defenive pick would have had any effect. And just like there are those saying RBs can be found later in the draft, the same can be said for defensive players especially linebackers and Secondary.
quote:quote:
They tried to get Lynch with the pick, and then word was they wanted Ogbah or Dodd. Once those guys were all off the table, then the once-in-a-generation gamble of a pick became the guy.
Yep. But hey maybe ALL those guys are once in a generation type guys!
I don't think that's what he was getting at. If all your top guys are gone, why not gamble on a home run?
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I just feel like if they made a real effort in free agency and signed tangible help they woulda had a lot more freedom in the draft and take gambles like Smith.
Im not saying go out on a huge cap breaking spending spree but I am saying at least address some glaring needs.
Im not saying go out on a huge cap breaking spending spree but I am saying at least address some glaring needs.
I think Thorton & Crawford will make a nice combo in the middle.
I think Mayowa might be able fill in as a starter then fit nicely into the rotation as a situational pass rusher.
I think Mayowa might be able fill in as a starter then fit nicely into the rotation as a situational pass rusher.
quote:quote:quote:Even so, they are only getting a max of 3 years production off his rookie contract instead of 4 with an option for 5 if they selected a LB in the 1st next year. That sets the bar that much higher for those 3 years.
With Smith, they are betting they are trading a high 2nd for a top 5 1st next year.
If he's the generational player they think he is it will probably be better to be able to negotiate his 2nd before he's in his prime. They have the franchise tag if they need it.
The problem there is that if Elliott does well, Dallas will probably extend him with the tag.
Sounds like a pretty good problem to have. Two franchise tag worthy players in one draft... But with Elliott we have the 5th year option.
5th year as said above. Non-issue.
Over/Under on Zeke set at 900 yards... If I was a gambler I'd be all over that.
https://sports.bovada.lv/football/nfl-season-props/ezekiel-elliott-total-rushing-yards-in-the-2016-regular-season-20170531
https://sports.bovada.lv/football/nfl-season-props/ezekiel-elliott-total-rushing-yards-in-the-2016-regular-season-20170531
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