FYI I'm hearing really good things about our 6th round CB from Purdue. I thought highly of him to based on what I saw (quick glance after we picked him). But since then I've heard many people say they had 3rd round grades for him. Would be awesome if his 3rd round grade is true and he turns into something even resembling Scandrick.
****Cowboys 2016 Offseason Thread***
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Last: 8 yr ago by jr15aggie
Jerry thinks this is the team that lost to GB two years ago.
No, this team was 4-12. We did not get any better after the draft. Yes, we lost 3 DEs to start the season. We have LBs that get hurt. No help there. Romo is a huge risk. No help there.
You say Zeke is going to beat out two battle tested 1000 yd. rushers when he hasn't even played a NFL down?
Now I'm hearing Jaylon Smith's nerve damage is not healing properly.
Just for grins, here's my draft I'd what coulda been. Of course its hind sight and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night:
1. Jalen Ramsay. CB / S, Fills specific needs. Can play two positions. Top talent
2. Noah Spence. DE Fills critical specific
needs.
3. Malik Collins DT Fills specific needs
4. B.J Goodson LB
4. Alex Collins RB ( check his stats vs. Elliot. He simply murdered the Ags) Value pick
I'm good with the rest of the picks. Except the Baylor TE.
5.
No, this team was 4-12. We did not get any better after the draft. Yes, we lost 3 DEs to start the season. We have LBs that get hurt. No help there. Romo is a huge risk. No help there.
You say Zeke is going to beat out two battle tested 1000 yd. rushers when he hasn't even played a NFL down?
Now I'm hearing Jaylon Smith's nerve damage is not healing properly.
Just for grins, here's my draft I'd what coulda been. Of course its hind sight and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night:
1. Jalen Ramsay. CB / S, Fills specific needs. Can play two positions. Top talent
2. Noah Spence. DE Fills critical specific
needs.
3. Malik Collins DT Fills specific needs
4. B.J Goodson LB
4. Alex Collins RB ( check his stats vs. Elliot. He simply murdered the Ags) Value pick
I'm good with the rest of the picks. Except the Baylor TE.
5.
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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AG
quote:Problem is that ya, this team as I've been saying for a while carries no benefit of the doubt. None. Nada. Zip.quote:quote:
Your statement was poor, to say the least, IMO. At least own your statement instead of blaming me for not taking it correctly.
"IMO" is the key I guess. Nothing we can do about our opinions. Again, I think the team agrees with my generic statement of not "needing" anything. We didn't draft a DB until round 6 so I think that says all you need to know about how much our team thinks we "need" DBs.
It's not always true... a few years ago we definitely needed a starting LT and got Smith. We desperately needed a #1 WR and got Dez. This year I think our neediest position was a #1 RB and pass rushing DE. We got the RB and may have helped DE a little with our 4th rounder. But even then we weren't screwed if we didn't get either. Our CBs are OK for now and our safeties are fine with our 1st rounder last year replacing Wilcox and Church being more of a SS.
It's dumb to argue though... it's a fine line between "we really need an upgrade here" vs. "we should be OK with the guys we have". Right now I'm on the "we're fine" side, but I'm also biased because they drafted the guy I wanted #1. I can see the other side for those that wanted Ramsey.
I have no doubt the team agrees with you and the results since Jimmy left prove that out. Good stuff!
They haven't proven ish in a long time. While we point to 2014 as a "magical year" of sorts, for some other organizations that kinda year is kinda run of the mill .
quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:Not arguing with you, and I like the Zeke pick, but can you name the third? All I know of in 10 years is F. Jones, and E.E.
The Cowboys have now drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 10 years.
It's only two - Felix Jones and Elliot. Julius Jones was a second rounder, maybe that's what he's thinking of?
Yep, my bad. I forgot they traded back and got JJ in the early second. I remember everyone was upset we didn't pick Steven Jackson. Oh how times have changed.
I do have a duh observation on all this. Isn't it likely the reason most backs are in later rounds now simply the side effect of nobody picking backs early anymore?
It's a byproduct of how short the shelf life of a running back is these days. Most guys are considered damaged goods by 27 or 28 years old nowadays. There is also a glut of talented RB's coming out of college these days and ready to be productive relative to other positions. Hence, they are being devalued.
If we want to get into it, Sherman Williams was picked by Dallas at #46 in 1995. They had the #28, but traded back into Rd 2 and got Williams. He was viewed as a kind of a future replacement for Emmitt, but had fumbling issues and was released after only three years. He later served a seven year jail sentence for distributing fake currency.
Cowboys picked Marion Barber in the 2005 Draft in the 4th round. He was 10th running back taken overall. Pretty good value there.
Three of first five picks were running backs. Brown and Williams from Auburn. And Benson from Longhorns. 2005 might have been last time that running backs were so sought after.
Other guys picked were Frank Gore in 3rd round and Darren Sproles in 4th round.
Three of first five picks were running backs. Brown and Williams from Auburn. And Benson from Longhorns. 2005 might have been last time that running backs were so sought after.
Other guys picked were Frank Gore in 3rd round and Darren Sproles in 4th round.
I was in the mad about not taking Jackson camp. Didn't he slide to where we were in the 20's though. I didn't like that trade all around. The value we got for the trade back seemed low and we got what I thought was a vastly inferior pick with the pick we got in the second round.
I'm not loving the Zeke pick, but it would have been pretty palatable I think for everyone if he'd slid into the 20's like Jackson did. There's some altogether against a RB in round one but most of us seem to have just been extra against it because it was at number 4 to boot.
I'm not loving the Zeke pick, but it would have been pretty palatable I think for everyone if he'd slid into the 20's like Jackson did. There's some altogether against a RB in round one but most of us seem to have just been extra against it because it was at number 4 to boot.
It would be nice to know where Zeke would have gone if Dallas didn't take him. He was the only RB I saw in any first round mocks. Gurley went pretty high last year coming off a bad knee injury. So it seems teams still get enamored with an elite back but the number of elite backs has shrunk. It will be interesting to see where Fornette goes next year.
Damontre Moore cut by Dolphins. Wonder if the Cowboys will kick the tires on this one.
Ate the zeke haters going to ***** until the season starts?
quote:
Ate the zeke haters going to ***** until the season starts?
I wouldn't say "haters". That would imply people thinking Zeke isn't good. If anyone is being "hated" on here, it's Jerry Jones. Elliott can't do anything about years of draft ineptitude.
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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quote:also i think you will find a lot of fans that are fine with Zeke the player. they are just wondering if we shoulda addressed D instead or also wondering why not sign an impact defender instead of the Butler if they were gona take Zeke.
Ate the zeke haters going to ***** until the season starts?
quote:quote:also i think you will find a lot of fans that are fine with Zeke the player. they are just wondering if we shoulda addressed D instead or also wondering why not sign an impact defender instead of the Butler if they were gona take Zeke.
Ate the zeke haters going to ***** until the season starts?
Especially since Dallas didn't stick with their draft board, which I find quite odd.
may have missed it, but where was their board revealed?
quote:
may have missed it, but where was their board revealed?
It was not much of a secret that Ramsey was atop the draft board. Oddly enough, I heard David Moore say that had Jaylon Smith been healthy, VR told him that he would've tops on their board (Moore was inside the Cowboys War Room and physically saw the board and how it was constructed beforehand). While most think Ramsey is the best pure athlete in this draft class, Dallas believed that Smith was a "generational player", despite the conventional wisdom on the value of a linebacker at #4 given their career length.
Do you have a link to the board as said by Moore?
Seems like speculation from everyone against the pick.
I think Ramsey should've been the pick by the way.
Seems like speculation from everyone against the pick.
I think Ramsey should've been the pick by the way.
That supports my theory that Zeke was Jason's pick & he called the RB coach in right before the draft to sell the room on Elliott.
There were several reports that Ramsey and Elliott were tied for the top spot.
quote:
There were several reports that Ramsey and Elliott were tied for the top spot.
Ramsey is a safety / CB... we already have a 1st rounder invested at safety and we have a lot of money currently tied up at CB (Scandrick & Carr). We could definitely do good things with an elite talent added here, but for this year we feel OK about that group.
RB is a different story. We don't have any real money invested here and the guys we have were either undrafted or another team's throw away. It was not a good group on it's own... it was serviceable with our O-line, but a talent upgrade here was needed.
To me it's pretty clear why they chose Zeke if Dallas really did consider them equal talents. The argument "you could have drafted a 2nd/3rd round back" isn't really valid... when it's time to pick #4 you have no idea how the rest of the draft is gonna shake out. You look at who's there at that moment, analyse the player & your roster and you make your pick.
I still question Ramsey's abilities in coverage. 3 career interceptions... Somethings not right. How does a bigger Deion Sanders play his college career in the ACC with a good pass rush and only get 3 picks?
just stop. Out of all the zeke proponents I've read, you've done the worst job at convincing me. You're points actually convince me further that it was a terrible pick.
quote:
just stop. Out of all the zeke proponents I've read, you've done the worst job at convincing me. You're points actually convince me further that it was a terrible pick.
Are you always this big of an *******?
Going on several pages and days since Dallas picked Zeke and your still on here *****ing and moaning like it's going to change anything.
Trust the scouts and front office. They got the player they wanted. They wouldn't have drafted him at #4 otherwise.
quote:.
I still question Ramsey's abilities in coverage. 3 career interceptions... Somethings not right. How does a bigger Deion Sanders play his college career in the ACC with a good pass rush and only get 3 picks?
Agree completely. His lack of production makes me believe he was a high risk pick and may have weighed in on Dallas taking Zeke over him.
Yes I am.
I'll drop it when I stop reading the dumbass reasons for it being a good pick. Like above "Well we just didn't have any real money invested in the RB position."
Is that ok with you, pumpkin?
I'll drop it when I stop reading the dumbass reasons for it being a good pick. Like above "Well we just didn't have any real money invested in the RB position."
Is that ok with you, pumpkin?
Elliot cheating on his GF is making the rounds. Apparently bedded some chick who snap chatted a photo of them together in bed with the last 24 hours. Made the front page of the FWST Sports.
quote:quote:
just stop. Out of all the zeke proponents I've read, you've done the worst job at convincing me. You're points actually convince me further that it was a terrible pick.
Are you always this big of an *******?
Going on several pages and days since Dallas picked Zeke and your still on here *****ing and moaning like it's going to change anything.
Trust the scouts and front office. They got the player they wanted. They wouldn't have drafted him at #4 otherwise.
To be fair, it's not like the addition of Elliott will immediately change anything other than short yardage scenarios. Dallas already ran the ball well last year were a top time of possession team. Heard an advanced stats guy on the radio this morning who thinks Elliott may be worth an extra minute of possession per game.
Even so, this team isn't making the playoffs without Romo and isn't winning a super bowl by ignoring its most glaring deficiencies. Going into the draft, needs were DE, LB, CB, S, DT, WR, QB. I'm not sure if any of those are better off than they were at this point last year.
quote:
Yes I am.
I'll drop it when I stop reading the dumbass reasons for it being a good pick. Like above "Well we just didn't have any real money invested in the RB position."
Is that ok with you, pumpkin?
Lol. No money invested at RB means we got guys on the cheap... And why is that? Because nobody really wanted the dudes we have. It's a perfectly logical argument for saying a RB pick was justified because our current lot is average at best.
But flame away... It's obvious your real intent is to hate on people and call names. I learned to ignore your type in 2nd grade.
Still think they would have gotten bosa if he was there.
Only time will tell how this draft plays out
Can't wait for the season to start
Only time will tell how this draft plays out
Can't wait for the season to start
quote:quote:
Yes I am.
I'll drop it when I stop reading the dumbass reasons for it being a good pick. Like above "Well we just didn't have any real money invested in the RB position."
Is that ok with you, pumpkin?
Lol. No money invested at RB means we got guys on the cheap... And why is that? Because nobody really wanted the dudes we have. It's a perfectly logical argument for saying a RB pick was justified because our current lot is average at best.
But flame away... It's obvious your real intent is to hate on people and call names. I learned to ignore your type in 2nd grade.
And we took those guys and turned it into a success, even when teams knew we were running. It was a great position of value based on cap %. Now, it will literally swing the exact opposite direction for a production increase that won't correlate to that swing.
We were 42% on 3rd and 1 last year... I don't consider our RBs a success last year with that stat.
I'm out for now. Nothing more to be said about it. By week 3 or 4 we'll know if the pick is paying off.
I'm out for now. Nothing more to be said about it. By week 3 or 4 we'll know if the pick is paying off.
quote:
We were 42% on 3rd and 1 last year... I don't consider our RBs a success last year with that stat.
I'm out for now. Nothing more to be said about it. By week 3 or 4 we'll know if the pick is paying off.
What? No, no, no, no. Just, no. You absolutely CAN NOT make a legitimate draft evaluation after three or four games. You need, at a minimum, about twenty games. A full approximation would be made at around 48 games (three year threshold). Players can have good/bad rookie years, then develop (Aikman)/get adjusted to (Griffin). For example, Michael Irvin was considered a bust going into his third season, but eventually pulled it together.
The only thing you'll know after three or four games is whether or not the back can adequately take a hand off.
3rd or 4th game? Gimme a break. Cowboys are hoping that Zeke doesn't get Romo killed by blowing a blitz pickup in his first month.
Of course we can't make a final call about him after 3-4 games...that's not what I meant. But we'll know really fast if this guy has the "it" factor or not. If he does it will be up to him to keep pushing and make the most of it.
Probably in the minority but the Zeke film just didn't do much for me.
He very obviously had a tremendous offensive line and his moves out in space weren't that extraordinary. Doesn't seem to have great break away speed either.
He very obviously had a tremendous offensive line and his moves out in space weren't that extraordinary. Doesn't seem to have great break away speed either.
quote:He seems like a solid back; definitely above average. I'm trying to keep an open mind about the pick, but the idea of trying to beat teams 38-35 week in and week out gives me a brain hurt. He's definitely the most immediate help the team could've gotten, although there were obviously better long term options.
Probably in the minority but the Zeke film just didn't do much for me.
He very obviously had a tremendous offensive line and his moves out in space weren't that extraordinary. Doesn't seem to have great break away speed either.
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