Puryear Playboy said:

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Lots of assumptions in that answer...like assuming that retreat is a possibility.

Or that the fight is over because you decide it's over.

If you don't give yourself options...you won't have any options.

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Lighthearted snide remark: Lots of failure to read here. Maybe some backup eyes are an option worth looking at.

In all seriousness: Switching to pistol. Point shooting with failed/broken optic. Disengaging. I don't see where there weren't options listed, in response to what is already a highly improbable scenario for me: engaging a threat at distance with an AR, when I have an optic fail, necessitating the use of BUIS.

If I'm using a $60 chinese red dot, back up irons are a damned good idea. If I'm using an ACOG, optics failure is pretty low on my list of worries. Not to mention that from reading stuff from people who would know, the failure rate of rifles themselves has been much higher than the failure rate of ACOGs during the GWOT, so I guess I should really be carrying a second AR instead of BUIS.

You and many other disagree, and that's fine. I see BUIS in the same way I view DA/SA pistols. They're not a bad way of doing things, but the main reason they exist and continue to be popular is hold overs from old ways of doing things who wanted some sort of comfort blanket to aid the transition. Folks used to revolvers liked a long DA pull on their newfangled semi automatic pistols, folks used to iron sights want that as a back up option to quality optics. Meh. Use them if you want to use them, but I don't view them as a must have item at all if you're using an ACOG.

BenderRodriguez said:

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Puryear Playboy said:

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Lots of assumptions in that answer...like assuming that retreat is a possibility.

Or that the fight is over because you decide it's over.

If you don't give yourself options...you won't have any options.

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Lighthearted snide remark: Lots of failure to read here. Maybe some backup eyes are an option worth looking at.

In all seriousness: Switching to pistol. Point shooting with failed/broken optic. Disengaging. I don't see where there weren't options listed, in response to what is already a highly improbable scenario for me: engaging a threat at distance with an AR, when I have an optic fail, necessitating the use of BUIS.

If I'm using a $60 chinese red dot, back up irons are a damned good idea. If I'm using an ACOG, optics failure is pretty low on my list of worries. Not to mention that from reading stuff from people who would know, the failure rate of rifles themselves has been much higher than the failure rate of ACOGs during the GWOT, so I guess I should really be carrying a second AR instead of BUIS.

You and many other disagree, and that's fine. I see BUIS in the same way I view DA/SA pistols. They're not a bad way of doing things, but the main reason they exist and continue to be popular is hold overs from old ways of doing things who wanted some sort of comfort blanket to aid the transition. Folks used to revolvers liked a long DA pull on their newfangled semi automatic pistols, folks used to iron sights want that as a back up option to quality optics. Meh. Use them if you want to use them, but I don't view them as a must have item at all if you're using an ACOG.

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One day at the range it rained heavily on us and it was a hot day and we were doing table 2 qual. My ACOG fogged up so bad on my M4 that I could barely see the target 25m in front of me. That won't happen to iron sights.

Yes. Iron sights also won't fog up so bad you can't use them.

I guess a trained monkey can break anything but I'm struggling to see how you break buis if they're folded down and out of use

Not trying to side track here.... but what is the Murphy business about?

Murphy's law.

Whatever can go wrong, will.

Ahhhhhh. Ha Gotcha, thanks. I was thinking through recent events, etc, but that didn't pop in the head

I was a SDM in Iraq - acog, no buis on my rifle.

Of course, I didn't have a pistol either.

Those all make sense, just never thought about it

Also I really wanted to do a true to the era Vietnam build but jesus parts for one are expensive

It's counterintuitive that a simple mechanical sight would be less reliable than I high tech electronic or magnified optic. At least, it is until you realize that a few ounces of pot metal and a spring is simply not a robust solution.

If you want a really dependable BUIS, use a removable carry handle. Zero the sight, pull it off and keep it in your kit. That's a backup you can depend on. It's not fast by any means, but it damn sure won't break.

Sorry man, I don't do fan boy, so I don't know who's guns those were. And I occasionally forget this is an Internet forum.

Everyone makes choices. Not everyone makes the best choices.

As far transition goes, I teach it and advocate it. In fact it is an extremely valuable skill...when you MUST do it. In December I even had the guy who two months previously had retired and taken off the uniform after 26 years, his last assignment was two years of running the "school house" on Range 37 (at Bragg). Not just instructing there...running it. After an hour on the square range when my guy's and girls were doing check drills and hot hanging transitions he turned to me and said "I can't believe how f-ing good they are on pistol!" And rifle. His next comment was that any of my cadets would embarrass any of his graduates on their last day on R37.

So yeah. I do know a bit.

What I also know is that I am not transitioning off a functioning rifle to a pistol unless I absolutely have to. So I don't know who your bud is with that rifle, but you won't see many at Bragg or Campbell without BUIS.

I run fixed irons. They are always there whether the dot is or not. The guys at the top end of the food chain do to...or they run flips and pop them up when the party starts.

Run an ACOG? Cool. A QD mount is also cheap insurance. Transitioning to a pistol keeps you in the fight and projecting negitive energy. It's not a huge loss since your team will still be hot around you and bringing the hate at the same time with their rifles. You do have a team... right?

And how useful to them will you be for the rest of the fight while you Point shoot your rifle and run your 9mm suppressing the guy with an RPK? Maybe one of you teammates will loan you a spare ACOG...oh, wait.

You don't have a team. You got you. You have others around you who may live or die based on what you can or can't do. No team just them. When your kids, or wife, or whoever look to you to Save The Day...you have the rest of your life (literally) to solve the problem.

This isn't a game we are talking about. It's not a stage in a match. You guys building rifles and wanting to learn to fight with them had better learn that there is no such thing as a fair fight. No do overs. No overwatch. No rear security. You want to take half a rifle to the fight? Don't be surprised when you are the half that doesn't win.

http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

Pretty neat website with lots of different model lowers and uppers for old clone builds but ,like I said, pricey

I love my middie, love my dissy, but would probably part with my 18in grabagun from CMMG. At the time, i thought the 18in would be an ideal middle of the road between 20 and 16. Now, i just see it as an unnecessary step child side show.

Anybody recommend a reason to go 18 instead of standard 16 or 20?

And yes, talking about 5.56, but would be interested to hear about 300blk or .308 applications as well.

Good post.

Those guns were carried by one of the DEVGRU guys who claimed to kill Bin Laden. He was on the raid but didn't really take the shot. IIRC, that picture was in his book.

Naveronski said:

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Visible IR laser in that setup serves as a backup primary aiming device.

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FIFY

Quote:

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Good post.

Those guns were carried by one of the DEVGRU guys who claimed to kill Bin Laden. He was on the raid but didn't really take the shot. IIRC, that picture was in his book.

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Those belong to Mark Owen aka Matt Bissonnette - who I don't think has ever claimed to have shot UBL, but he was on the mission (obviously). The dead giveaway is the pirate gun which is pure sex.

Why does the owner of that sawed of shotty have a red dot on it?

You don't have one on your's?

Noob.

26.2 said:

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Why does the owner of that sawed of shotty have a red dot on it?

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Shotgun or grenade launcher?

Average Joe said:

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So wait. When the terrorists send an assassination team to my house, what am I supposed to use? ACOG? BUIS? Fixed?

Y'all are way overthinking this.

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Why even have an AR then? Just to shoot beer cans? Might as well have one that is ready for serious use. Otherwise it's just a toy and you should have saved your money and bought a .22