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Bender's Big AR-15 & Semi Auto Shilling Thread

489,351 Views | 2919 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by robstrom
BenderRodriguez
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If you're thinking about buying an AR-15 or other semi auto rifle or pistol, this is your thread. Especially if you want to buy while prices are good and availability is semi good.

If you have no interest in ARs or Semi autos, I made my title explicitly clear. If you come to the thread specifically to whine about how you don't like ARs or semis, you should find a better hobby than whining online.

I am not a dealer, telling yall to buy makes me exactly zero money. I shill out of the goodness of my heart, and because if the same thing that has happened in the past couple of elections happens again this year, come October/November/December if anyone complains about prices or about guns being out of stock, I'll be linking them to this thread with an "I told you so".

I hope it's not going to happen again, but the TL;DR version of this thread is simple: If you want an AR-15, you have three basic options IMO based on past election year history and human behavior: buy soon at a good price, expect to pay more around election time, or plan to wait for better prices again in a year+.

This is not about "they're coming to take our guns". It's about past buying patterns. You can build a decent AR cheaply right now. If you prefer a factory gun, you can buy those for good prices right now too. If anyone wasn't paying attention a few years ago, here's a chart of the cost of a specific model Bushmaster AR-15 from a few years ago:



This is an old chart, but the same gun is just under ~$800 right now, fyi. It's historically an $800 gun, that cost $1200 in December of 2012. Depending on the election and the political climate, the same thing could happen again. ARs were overvalued with $800 guns going for $1200-$1500, $12 magazines were selling for $50 to $75, etc. Prices are good right now. The last two elections, prices have been not good. Plan accordingly.

People are stupid, and panic buy. So the point of this thread: if you have the money and are thinking about an AR purchase, avoid the panic prices and buy now. Or if you can afford to wait a year, by all means wait...but there's no reason to buy at inflated prices when people panic if they do so again.

Anyone who has any questions about buying an AR, pistol, AK, whatever....feel free to ask. I'm here to shill for fun guns....and help my fellow Ags not get gouged to buy them.








BenderRodriguez
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As a follow up, I have a 10.5" pistol kit coming in this week. I'll post pics once it is built.

Total cost will be under ~$650.

The fact you can build a decent AR for $600 right now is awesome. Take advantage of it.

OldCamp
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Good advice.
I bought my first AR in 2013 once I started seeing prices falling, but I never knew they would continue to fall....and fall.
meggy09
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Who knows what will happen this go around. Dec '12 was Sandy Hook though. I doubt the election cycle itself will drastically affect prices, but you're right, things are so cheap if you were already thinking about picking one up in the next year or so no reason to chance it.
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
things are so cheap if you were already thinking about picking one up in the next year or so no reason to chance it.

Yep, that's my main point.

Things could be this cheap in November/December. I don't know for sure that prices will increase.

The last two election cycles they did go up to pretty absurd levels.

So if you're thinking about buying in the next year and have the means to do so now, I'd recommend now, just in case. Or plan on waiting until after, because as the last two panics showed us, prices and availability will eventually stabilize again afterwards.

Just don't be a panic buyer.



TheEyeGuy
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Bender... all I have to say is THANKS!

Seriously though.... ARs are not really getting any cheaper than they are now for a while. In fact, they have gone up a bit over what they were not too long ago (6 months ago). Heck, I've bumped my non-texags prices up three times in the past 6 months... and I'm selling more now in regards to ARs than I did in november. Rifles I used to retail at $499 are now going for $599 and there's been no downtick in sales.

Election cycle will affect prices, simply with people freaking out on this stuff. Never ceases to amaze me how the gun world is filled with chicken littles... and I'm not talking about customers, either. Something weird happens and bam, stuff disappears at wholesale. Any spare money I have right now goes to spare parts. A lot of your smaller manufacturers were in trouble as they started business to take advantage of the craze and then ended up growing too quickly. Many had to slash prices just to move product... which was GREAT for me. I'm buying mainly because the prices are what they are right now but also because I have watched this stuff happen several times. I'll be happy when I have parts on hand to build 200 rifles. I'm about halfway there. Now that things are slightly picking back up again, prices are going up again. This started after San Bernadino and has been inching up since. Availability of cheap ARs is pretty sparse... when they do show up, I buy at least 10 just to make sure we have them.

Case in point... m855 fauxban. I sold $20k worth of ammo in ONE weekend over that fiasco. A lot of the people that bought them explicitly said "I never used this but I wanted to have it in case I wanted to."
IDAGG
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I agree with Bender's premise. Especially with Hillary's anti gun rhetoric. If it looks like she will win in November (very possible), prices will spike. If it looks like a landslide and the dems might take over the Senate and the House THEY WILL REALY SPIKE. I have no skin in this game either. Some poster (I can't remember who) posted a very similar thread 9 months to a year ago. At the time of that post ARs were the cheapest they had been in a long time. I almost bought a new Ruger AR 556 for $560. I passed as I wasn't sure I would actually shoot it much. They go for $600 to $650 now depending where you look, and they are in and out of stock. The same price increase goes for other ARs I have looked at.

If it looks likeThe Donald is going to lock up the nomination...you had better buy.
cuz-i-can
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I do believe Bender is correct. You can put together a "starter" AR for under $500 right now. I put together an AR pistol (300 Blackout before the lake got it) and had it together for under $650 but I added alot of upgrades later.
agfan2013
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I agree with you OP and like the initiative. Sadly, just like after sandy hook, if Hillary gets elected we will have 5 threads a day asking what brand and where to get the cheapest price on ARs just like last time. People just arent proactive.

I do applaud your efforts, i've been like a broken record telling all of my AR-less friends for the past year to get their asses in gear if they ever think they'd want one. They wont ever be cheaper than they are now so you might as well get one even if there's only a 1% chance you'd ever shoot it. If nothing else it will be a great investment to offload for a profit on all the suckers who try to buy one after the election.
maverick2076
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Its a great time to build or buy. You can build a 16" AR with a keymod rail for under $500, and all you need is sights. There are so many options for building nicer rifles as well.
gibberish
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Could not agree more, If you are already planning to buy in the next year do so now.
They will not go cheaper.

More importantly it's a good time to buy nice ARs too, if that's what you want.

In early 2013, could not find a single Colt, DD, BCM, Noveske to save your life.

You could find stuff like Bushmaster and DPMS all day for $1500+.
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
Bender... all I have to say is THANKS!

Seriously though.... ARs are not really getting any cheaper than they are now for a while. In fact, they have gone up a bit over what they were not too long ago (6 months ago).

Between this and that yeti thread a while back, I hope I send some business your way.

I have one more AR I want to build (at least) while prices are good. Then I can wait out any panic and get back into the new gun game next year.

BenderRodriguez
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quote:
i've been like a broken record telling all of my AR-less friends for the past year to get their asses in gear if they ever think they'd want one. They wont ever be cheaper than they are now so you might as well get one even if there's only a 1% chance you'd ever shoot it.

Absolutely.

I had friends ask about them during the panic. I said to hold on, prices would get better. They got better. I sent links to said friends.

I'm probably going to get emails from those friends asking about ARs again the next time a panic happens.

JohnnyShotgun
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Very timely thread Bender, thank you. I just purchased my first AR last weekend, a Smith & Wesson M&P Sport II for $597. I've been wanting an AR for a few years now and just never did it, until the wife said she was cool with me pulling money from a cash account and "invest" it in an AR. She heard on NPR of all places that guns and ammo are a good place for someone to invest money in right now instead of getting beat up in the stock market. I plan on buying a fair amount of ammo and mags while they are still relatively cheap and widely available. I fully believe if Hillary gets elected we are going to see a crazy spike on gun prices and accessories again, or worse a ban on AR styled rifles.

If Hillary somehow loses in November, then I feel like we will be good to go and pricing and inventory will continue to be in our favor. But if she wins, watch out, it's going to get ugly.
El Chupacabra
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Hillary will win in a landslide in November. If you want an AR, buy one now for cheap, buy one post November for 3-5x, or complain about not being allowed to buy one in a year from November.

Once I move next month, I'm going to buy a few more and a 'few' more magazines and parts. And as much ammo as I can afford.
Scriffer
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Ok, you've roped me in. I've been wanting a new rifle for awhile, and we'll be getting the wifey a new car soon, so I may have some leverage. Main reasons would be having something available if someone wants to shoot hogs, the rare deer hunt, and because I want one.

What do y'all like in the $1000 range, plus or minus a bit? This wouldn't be a project I want to build myself, though the idea of learning the platform is appealing. Also, is .223 pretty much it in that price range, or do I have other options?

Edit to add: The $1k price tag wouldn't include glass.
RebelE Infantry
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Bender is spot on. In looking for to build a 300blk pistol, 6.5CM ar-10, and maybe a cheapo 5.56 as a spare before this cluster**** gets revved up and everyone turns the ruhtard up to 11.
maverick2076
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quote:
Ok, you've roped me in. I've been wanting a new rifle for awhile, and we'll be getting the wifey a new car soon, so I may have some leverage. Main reasons would be having something available if someone wants to shoot hogs, the rare deer hunt, and because I want one.

What do y'all like in the $1000 range, plus or minus a bit? This wouldn't be a project I want to build myself, though the idea of learning the platform is appealing. Also, is .223 pretty much it in that price range, or do I have other options?

Edit to add: The $1k price tag wouldn't include glass.
Colt 6920 if you are going to buy. You should be able to get one in the $800-$900 range. Or, contact EyeGuy. I bet he could build you a really nice 5.56 AR for $1k. Or you could build one yourself. They are really very easy to assemble, and it is more fun to build one exactly how you want than to buy off the rack.
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
She heard on NPR of all places that guns and ammo are a good place for someone to invest money in right now instead of getting beat up in the stock market.

I would disagree with NPR there. Real estate, getting out of debt, index funds etc are all investments.

The problem with "investing" in guns and ammo is that as I showed in my first post, AR prices are unstable in the short term but tend to stabilize over time, because there are a lot of manufacturers building them to meet that high demand.

The same gun mentioned in the OP that sold for $1200 in Dec 2012-Jan 2013 sold for $800 before that and is under $800 again today. So if you'd bought one as an investment at $800 and four years later it is worth slightly less than $800....that's a pretty bad investment.

The other problem is since guns are highly regulated, the government frowns on buying/building to sell without a license to do so. If someone buys 10 AR-15s today planning to sell them if another panic hits, that's the sort of thing that could get you in a lot of legal hot water.

I'm not recommending people buy now to sell later, or buy guns instead of investing in their retirement. I'm just saying that if you want an AR-15, now is a good time to buy.

BenderRodriguez
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quote:
Main reasons would be having something available if someone wants to shoot hogs, the rare deer hunt, and because I want one.

What do y'all like in the $1000 range, plus or minus a bit? This wouldn't be a project I want to build myself, though the idea of learning the platform is appealing. Also, is .223 pretty much it in that price range, or do I have other options?

You are opening a wormhole here, and I'm happy to see it. The world of ARs is huge and the possibilities are endless.

Even if you don't want to do a complete build (though they're not that hard to do), you can buy a complete lower (which would have to be transferrred to you from a FFL) and a complete upper (which could be shipped straight to your door) and it's two pins to put it together.

A complete lower from folks like Palmetto State Armory will run in the ~$200 range (less if they're having a sale), leaving you a lot of wiggle room for the rest of the gun. You could buy a nice upper and a nice trigger from ALG, Larue or Geissele with it and have a decent shooter with a nice trigger, or you could even buy two uppers and with a simple magazine/upper swap have both a .223 and a 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 300blk, 458 Socom, 50 Beowulf, 9mm, 22lr....the list goes on.

Just to illustrate how many options you have with an AR, here's a couple of pictures:



From left to right: 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 300 BLK, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC.

and one more just to show of the heavy hitters:



Left to right: 5.56x45, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 458 SOCOM, 50 Beowulf.

All of these calibers can be shot from the exact same lower with the exact same trigger....all they need is a different upper and in some cases a different magazine.

You could easily put together an AR in 5.56 and build another upper in a different caliber for hunting/fun if you wanted to and get to enjoy two guns for your price or close to it. Some of the different caliber uppers start costing $$$$, but some are more reasonable.





TheEyeGuy
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quote:
Ok, you've roped me in. I've been wanting a new rifle for awhile, and we'll be getting the wifey a new car soon, so I may have some leverage. Main reasons would be having something available if someone wants to shoot hogs, the rare deer hunt, and because I want one.

What do y'all like in the $1000 range, plus or minus a bit? This wouldn't be a project I want to build myself, though the idea of learning the platform is appealing. Also, is .223 pretty much it in that price range, or do I have other options?

Edit to add: The $1k price tag wouldn't include glass.
At $1100, I can put you together one of our Armadillo series guns. They are billet upper/lower, ballistic advantage barrel, and at that price point you'd be looking at a keymod freefloat and a magpul moe stock plus our overmolded grip. Basically, this exact gun that is about to be purchased by a poster here and is the same gun that I'm building for the West Point Class of 96 (their guns will be engraved with their class crest and such).





TheEyeGuy
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Also, will echo that a 6920 is another great option.
Scriffer
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Thanks for the summary, Bender. I lurk here a lot, but AR's are new to me.

And EyeGuy, that looks pretty impressive. I'll be in the Houston area at the end of the month, so I may try and swing by.
DV04
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BenderRodriguez
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quote:
Thanks for the summary, Bender. I lurk here a lot, but AR's are new to me.


No problem. They way I see it is: The more people we have who own and shoot ARs, semi auto pistols, etc...the more people will understand just how stupid and inflated the anti gun rhetoric is.

I'm happy to spend time helping anyone learn to shoot or get into the world of evil black guns.
TheEyeGuy
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And the less fractured the gun world is.... Which, IMO is our biggest problem. Until recently, I had no stake in a lot of crazier things in the gun world. Suppressors, full auto, etc... they were something that didn't personally matter to me. That happens with a lot of the gun world... there are those that dislike black rifles or are simply ambivalent towards them. As such, a large percentage of them do not feel a need to stand up for the things that don't matter to them. One thing that I have always been big on is general gun rights. I never felt the need to own a full auto (that recently changed but mainly due to professional circumstances, haha) but at the same time, even though it didn't matter to me, I still was gung ho on supporting those that owned them. 15 years ago... I couldn't care less about ARs for my own use. Yes, my tune there drastically changed, but even then, I still was 100% for the ability to own on if you so chose. This is why, by and large, the left is successful at what they do. Whereas many of us don't care about the things that don't affect us, the left pretty much supports any leftist philosophy, even if it doesn't matter to them. They stand united where we are fragmented and don't support each other as we should. The Colin Noir video illustrates this nicely. As long as I can keep the supply lines set up, I'll always have a $499 rifle available (should be up for grabs very soon) as an entry into the AR world. Sure, it's a business decision, but also one that is supported in my belief that the more ARs we have out there, the stronger we stand against the left.
Ulysses90
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Not a silencer, not cheap, but very worthwhile and not class III.

https://youtu.be/VR0q2PSvgek]https://youtu.be/VR0q2PSvgek]

https://youtu.be/T7cKHZreZqI]https://youtu.be/T7cKHZreZqI]

http://iroctactical.com/products/iroc-muzzle-device/iroc-mb-custom-2/




DimeBox17
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Like others.. I have never owned one but I am interested in buying one while the prices are reasonable. Also have only shot a Bushmaster so I have zero knowledge of what's good and what isn't.

Can you post a couple of links for ARs in the $500-$700 range? I'm a current student so I don't quite have enough for a nice $1000+ rifle.
TheCougarHunter
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quote:
Like others.. I have never owned one but I am interested in buying one while the prices are reasonable. Also have only shot a Bushmaster so I have zero knowledge of what's good and what isn't.

Can you post a couple of links for ARs in the $500-$700 range? I'm a current student so I don't quite have enough for a nice $1000+ rifle.


Bushmaster
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
Can you post a couple of links for ARs in the $500-$700 range? I'm a current student so I don't quite have enough for a nice $1000+ rifle.

Here's an Armalite (the original Armalite as the reason it is called the AR-15) for $497. Comes with one magazine, so all you'd need to go shoot is a rear sight.

Magpul makes flip up rears, you can buy a traditional "carry handle" rear sight, but most of my iron sighted ARs use Daniel Defense 1.5 fixed rears...they run in the $65 to $70 dollar range, so you'd be under $600 even with the FFL fee for a complete AR.

Here's a picture of my dissipator with the DD 1.5 sight.



El_Guero512
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This is a great post! I myself have been in the market for a AR too. I have a budget around 800 not including the optics. I was leaning towards the LE6920 but can't find one below 1200. Next option would be the S&W MP15 sport gen 2.

I would be a first time AR owner and look forward to your input guys. Oh and I live in Austin if that helps. Thanks guys!
dubi
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Dear Mr Dubi,

No!
gibberish
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For those looking for a 6920 I would recommend considering an Colt OEM2 (~$700) or OEM1 (if you prefer front sight). Chances are you are you would change the the stock and handguard on a 6920, so why pay twice for those parts. Plus the OEM line makes it easy to freefloat with the appropriate handguard.





Currently $725 at https://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM2

If in houston of course see Eyeguy for his availability and pricing.
ConstructionAg01
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For a budget build that still has some upgraded furniture, Palmetto State Armory has some good options.

Here's your cheapest option:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-melonite-5-56-nato-1-7-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html
Add an Anderson lower receiver for $50, a Magpul rear BUIS for $40, and a $10 PMAG and you are all in for $550 plus shipping.


Here's another better option. Just build this for my FIL and was really pleased with how it turned out for the price.
Upper assembly
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-freedom-stainless-moe-blk-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html
Add BCG and charging handle for $119 and $27 respectively.
Lower build kit with Magpul furniture and an upgraded trigger
http://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-state-armory-moe-lower-build-kit-black-with-qms-trigger.html
Then add a stripped lower for +/- $75, rear sight and PMAG for $50 and you are all in for $679 before shipping.

HvilleAggie
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This is the same build as above, just as a package and without the ALG trigger:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-stainless-steel-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html

Between Palmetto and Primary Arms, you can usually find a stripped lower for around $50, fyi
 
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