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Sounds good to me.

I just think Henry or Dixon or Perkins could have done that.

And you wouldn't have had to use #4 to do it.

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Perkins & Dixon wouldn't start on our team. Im thinking Elliott is a Probowler in 2 years.

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Who cares about starts....it's about carries.

If you don't think Dixon or Perkins would get carries on this team along with McFadden and Morris then I guess we just disagree.

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So if the Cowboys draft Ramsey and Romo goes down it's not a clunker?

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If Romo does not go down they have a chance. Shore up the defense just a little. Get a pass rusher and someone that can cover. Ask Demarco Murray about Romo. Ask Laurent Robinson. Without Romo the Cowboys are garbage.

You can have this funny little mind blowing thing all you want. McFadden has done it on the pro level. Elliot has not. You have no idea what Elliot is going to do. The Cowboys have three years to do something. Then it is back to the drawing board.

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I have a pretty good idea what he can do.

Norm had some great talking points on the Cowboys draft this morning:

1. The Elliott pick isn't a bad pick, but there is a real question of value. Is the production from Elliott going to be all that different from the production of one of the very good backs that were available in Rd 4? He also predicts that Elliott will be Offensive Rookie of the Year for 2016.

2. Dallas is trying to recreate 2014, which is somewhat surprising. You can power run all you want, but without a defense, you're still looking at another early playoff exit at best.

3. Prescott + Moore is not a solution to Dallas' backup QB situation. Dallas needs to find a veteran backup or it becomes increasingly likely that this team will falter as it did this last season.

4. Since 2005, no team in the NFL is worse at drafting Rds 3-7 than the Dallas Cowboys based on playing time, career length, second contracts, and production.

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Norm had some great talking points on the Cowboys draft this morning:

1. The Elliott pick isn't a bad pick, but there is a real question of value. Is the production from Elliott going to be all that different from the production of one of the very good backs that were available in Rd 4? He also predicts that Elliott will be Offensive Rookie of the Year for 2016.

2. Dallas is trying to recreate 2014, which is somewhat surprising. You can power run all you want, but without a defense, you're still looking at another early playoff exit at best.

3. Prescott + Moore is not a solution to Dallas' backup QB situation. Dallas needs to find a veteran backup or it becomes increasingly likely that this team will falter as it did this last season.

4. Since 2005, no team in the NFL is worse at drafting Rds 3-7 than the Dallas Cowboys based on playing time, career length, second contracts, and production.

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I would love to see the numbers on #4. I think it's like being the shortest midget.

Here's the way I look at all this... the Cowboys weren't screwed without Zeke at #4... but we also aren't screwed w/out Ramsey at #4 either. Nor are we screwed taking a red-shirt with our 2nd round pick (who we all hope was indeed top 5 talent when he returns next year).

Our DBs are in pretty good shape. We'll have some contracts expire after this year, but for now I like what we have if Mo & Carr can be consistent enough with Scandrick and Jones leading the way. Our D-line is pretty deep right now actually. Some of us may not be blown away with the free agents we signed, but Dallas and Rod really like them. The only thing we currently lack is an elite pass rusher, but Lawrence was solid last year, Gregory looked really good in pre-season as a rookie (the high ankle sprain ruined his rookie year), and our interior D-line is about a solid.

So we didn't technically "need" anything. We instead focused on our board and took the guys we felt were elite. Regardless of what we think, Zeke and Jaylon were both considered elite (and I would agree). I'm not pretending our roster is stacked, but it's not like we have multiple spots where a rookie would easily beat out the vet we had. We have a solid roster top to bottom.

What I've always said is how I still feel... Zeke very well could elevate this offense into a very, VERY, good unit. Could possibly be the best offense in the NFL if everything comes together. If that happens it will help our 2016 team more than anything we could have done for our scrappy defense.

Spoken like a true Cowboy fan. We are all like the battered wife. We keep thinking it will be different. It never will be.

Another note on #4, they've also drafted more pro-bowlers than anyone since '06 - almost the same time frame.

The team didn't need anything?

Wow.

This thread is such amazing gold. Just keeps delivering.

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Norm had some great talking points on the Cowboys draft this morning:

1. The Elliott pick isn't a bad pick, but there is a real question of value. Is the production from Elliott going to be all that different from the production of one of the very good backs that were available in Rd 4? He also predicts that Elliott will be Offensive Rookie of the Year for 2016.

This was my contention on draft night as well. I'm not going to trash the pick, and goin into the draft I said I'd be ok with either but then as the pick got closer I was preferring Ramsey. I also have an issue with a clear lack of planning going into the offseason. Why sign Morris if you are making this pick? If you absolutely want another RB take one late in the draft. That money shoulda been used on a defender instead. I probably sign a defender (LB or Pass Rush) and then take Ramsey. Also, we are probably only going to get that first 5 years outa Elliott. After that, he's probably gone via ***ency. That said, I'm not going to say its a bad pick because its possible he might provide that additional electricity the offense needs.

2. Dallas is trying to recreate 2014, which is somewhat surprising. You can power run all you want, but without a defense, you're still looking at another early playoff exit at best.

People keep saying we did this and that in 2014 with the offense but people keep forgetting that the defense had its own share of let downs that season especially in that Green Bay game. In the 2nd half it just could not stop GB at all when we badly needed the ball back. People talk about the Dez catch/non catch but I think we had literally at least 3 3rd downs on defense to get the ball back and we failed. Maybe more. Dallas really shoulda lost the week before to Detroit. Anyone remember that game? Stafford at times made the Cowboys D look silly. Some terrible officiating down the wire helped Dallas secure the win. The Cowboys need more defenders and they keep finding guys who were selling insurance or sacking groceries or whatever and expecting Marinelli to coach em up. That approach isn't working. Not that Marinelli is a bad coach because he's certainly not. He's a great coach. But they are not giving him enough good players.

3. Prescott + Moore is not a solution to Dallas' backup QB situation. Dallas needs to find a veteran backup or it becomes increasingly likely that this team will falter as it did this last season.

Dak Prescott is likely not to be a franchise QB. Again,they need help at LB especially with some reliable LB help and instead decided to address backup QB which coulda been addressed in free agency instead. Again, I wont trash em too much because if he was next on their board as far as BPA I can respect that but if there was a defender that even graded close, its gota at least be up for discussion.

4. Since 2005, no team in the NFL is worse at drafting Rds 3-7 than the Dallas Cowboys based on playing time, career length, second contracts, and production.

Certainly does not come as a shock.

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What I find very bizarre is that Jerry wanted Lynch very badly but wouldn't give up a third rounder for him. Seems like a small price to get your future QB

For purpose of message board discussion but another scenario coulda been:

1( 4): Ramsey S
2( 34): Chris Jones DT or Noah Spence DE

Here after around pick 45 when I saw Mackensie Alexander still on the board I woulda started aggressively calling around trying to trade up to get him. I think he's going to be a steal and a stud. A first 3 picks of Ramsey, Spence, and Alexander woulda been truly phenomenal and A+.

Your 2016 (and future D) are vastly improved.

Coulda added your RB, and a couple of LBs with the picks after that.

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What I find very bizarre is that Jerry wanted Lynch very badly but wouldn't give up a third rounder for him. Seems like a small price to get your future QB

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I know most people don't believe Stephen has any real say-so, but I saw where he (Stephen) basically said "Pops, no."

I simply do not see the value in taking a running back at #4.

To me, it only makes sense if the guy turns out to be an all pro. (Not just a pro bowler). That's why I said above I agree with Orlando. If Ellie can at least make it the pro bowls, the pick was a complete bust.

So if you think that he is that kind of a special player, but I understand why they made the pick

A lot of people trashing a running back pick period. Is there any position that has been devalued more over the last 30 years? It's almost philosophical at this point. Arguing that its a dumb pick simply because of the position is like yelling at the sky. Some organizations value the position and some don't. The Cowboys have now drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 10 years. Even the great Bill Parcells did it. Hell, Parcells traded a first round pick for a running back when he was with New England (or was it the Jets?).

Those talking about this being a bad investment because of the roster aren't offering alternatives that make much sense. We've spent a couple of second round picks on DEs and two 1sts on the secondary in the last few years. The way I see it, they needed a homerun at any position outside of Oline or QB.

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The team didn't need anything?

Wow.

This thread is such amazing gold. Just keeps delivering.

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C'mon man... you gotta take things in context. You aren't dumb, we should be allowed to make statements and assume the reader is smart enough to think about it and say, "I know what he means". Every team wants to improve their team via the draft. But in this case you know dang well that we could have drafted nobody and fielded a pretty good team next year.

Nobody is saying it wouldn't be preferable to get some secondary help. But it's pretty clear the team feels good about it, otherwise we wouldn't have waited until the 6th round to start taking some DB's.

The team feels they have 3 starting corners and 3 starting caliber safeties. We can disagree all we want, but they are the ones making the decisions.

My big issue is that the value of running back from #4 to 4th Rd is not as big of a deal as it used to be. In fact, I'd bet that a majority of of today's two-deep back fields are comprised of 3-5 Rd picks.

Basically, backs that would've been Rd 1-2 picks twenty years ago are now falling into the 3-5 Rd range based by primarily on offensive scheme, which devalues the worth of a running back. It might be essay worthy, but I'd bet that the ball handling quality of running back is just as good as it was twenty years ago. The only thing that's changed is the round in which they're being drafted.

One thing that Elliott does have going for him is that he's only twenty years old. You could feasibly get two full contracts out of him if you don't destroy him by the time he's 25.

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What I've always said is how I still feel... Zeke very well could elevate this offense into a very, VERY, good unit. \

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And here's the problem:

Romo + Zeke = Elite Offense
Romo - Zeke = Elite Offense
Zeke - Romo = Bad Offense

The offense is elite regardless of Zeke. Only with the subtraction of Romo is it no longer elite.

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What I've always said is how I still feel... Zeke very well could elevate this offense into a very, VERY, good unit. \

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And here's the problem:

Romo + Zeke = Elite Offense
Romo - Zeke = Elite Offense
Zeke - Romo = Bad Offense

The offense is elite regardless of Zeke. Only with the subtraction of Romo is it no longer elite.

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This whole thing hinges on Romo. People can DeMarco Murray all they want, but when Romo wasn't in the offense died.

That being said, I think most realize that Zeke Doesn't cure any of this team's ailments, except for short yardage scenarios.

The ONLY stat the supports them drafting a running back #4 overall is the difference in 3rd and short situations last year compared to the year prior.

The reason that stat is flawed? Romo. Romo would have put them in better plays, and the defense would have had to account for Romo's ability to throw. Romo to Witten on 3rd down, anyone?

You're getting me fired up about the RB pick again, damnit! This mother better freaking run for infinity yards next year...

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The ONLY stat the supports them drafting a running back #4 overall is the difference in 3rd and short situations last year compared to the year prior.

The reason that stat is flawed? Romo. Romo would have put them in better plays, and the defense would have had to account for Romo's ability to throw. Romo to Witten on 3rd down, anyone?

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The logic is sound, Captain.

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The Cowboys have now drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 10 years.

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Not arguing with you, and I like the Zeke pick, but can you name the third? All I know of in 10 years is F. Jones, and E.E.

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The team didn't need anything?

Wow.

This thread is such amazing gold. Just keeps delivering.

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C'mon man... you gotta take things in context. You aren't dumb, we should be allowed to make statements and assume the reader is smart enough to think about it and say, "I know what he means". Every team wants to improve their team via the draft. But in this case you know dang well that we could have drafted nobody and fielded a pretty good team next year.

Nobody is saying it wouldn't be preferable to get some secondary help. But it's pretty clear the team feels good about it, otherwise we wouldn't have waited until the 6th round to start taking some DB's.

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Yeah there isn't a context where it was a correct statement. You can try and walk it back by blaming me for not interpreting what you're saying correctly but not in this case.

The team has serious holes, and especially on defense, and only the most blind and honestly ignorant homer would say otherwise.

They also have an old QB with injury issues and outside of Dez no receivers you feel remotely good about.

Your statement was poor, to say the least, IMO. At least own your statement instead of blaming me for not taking it correctly.

There isn't a third. Maybe he's thinking of Julius Jones, who was not a 1st rounder.

Felix Jones and EE are the only 2 1st round RB's since Emmitt.

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The Cowboys have now drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 10 years.

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Not arguing with you, and I like the Zeke pick, but can you name the third? All I know of in 10 years is F. Jones, and E.E.

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It's only two - Felix Jones and Elliot. Julius Jones was a second rounder, maybe that's what he's thinking of?

Church and Wilcox are not championship level Safeties if playing that together. Maybe one or the other and Jones, that possibly can work.

Scandrick is coming back from major knee surgery.

I do not believe Carr is as terrible as some Cowboy fans make him out to be but he's not the playmaker he once seemed to be.

Claiborne finally was able to stay on the field last year but he was mediocre and not great by any means. I'm hoping that was his REAL rookie season and he can spring board off that into a great effort in 2016 especially since he's going on the market next off season.

On Linebackers Lee is great but so so unreliable and his next tackle may be his last. McLain is the very definition of unreliable not only with whatever happens off the field but even in games he has a way of ending up on the sidelines in the most crucial of defensive situations. Hitchens is completely unproven still and while he's shown flashes he's not a guy I'd point to and say "we will win a game because he's on our D". He's not any kind of difference maker as of yet. Maybe that changes.

Here's something I think most of us can agree on:

It will be really interesting to see how Paxton Lynch and Jaylon Smith are playing by the end of 2017 / 2018 season. Will be very interesting to see if we dodged a bullet or got really screwed by Denver stealing our trade when our guys thought it was a done deal.

But I hate waiting!

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The Cowboys have now drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 10 years.

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Not arguing with you, and I like the Zeke pick, but can you name the third? All I know of in 10 years is F. Jones, and E.E.

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It's only two - Felix Jones and Elliot. Julius Jones was a second rounder, maybe that's what he's thinking of?

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Yep, my bad. I forgot they traded back and got JJ in the early second. I remember everyone was upset we didn't pick Steven Jackson. Oh how times have changed.

I do have a duh observation on all this. Isn't it likely the reason most backs are in later rounds now simply the side effect of nobody picking backs early anymore?

I would have liked the Lynch pick. I think that is a better gamble than taking a guy with drop-foot due to nerve damage. It sounds like staying in the 1st and not only getting Ifedi, but getting that 5th year on the contract as just too valued by Seattle. They took less point value than what Dallas was offering.

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Your statement was poor, to say the least, IMO. At least own your statement instead of blaming me for not taking it correctly.

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"IMO" is the key I guess. Nothing we can do about our opinions. Again, I think the team agrees with my generic statement of not "needing" anything. We didn't draft a DB until round 6 so I think that says all you need to know about how much our team thinks we "need" DBs.

It's not always true... a few years ago we definitely needed a starting LT and got Smith. We desperately needed a #1 WR and got Dez. This year I think our neediest position was a #1 RB and pass rushing DE. We got the RB and may have helped DE a little with our 4th rounder. But even then we weren't screwed if we didn't get either. Our CBs are OK for now and our safeties are fine with our 1st rounder last year replacing Wilcox and Church being more of a SS.


It's dumb to argue though... it's a fine line between "we really need an upgrade here" vs. "we should be OK with the guys we have". Right now I'm on the "we're fine" side, but I'm also biased because they drafted the guy I wanted #1. I can see the other side for those that wanted Ramsey.

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The Cowboys have now drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 10 years.

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Not arguing with you, and I like the Zeke pick, but can you name the third? All I know of in 10 years is F. Jones, and E.E.

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It's only two - Felix Jones and Elliot. Julius Jones was a second rounder, maybe that's what he's thinking of?

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Yep, my bad. I forgot they traded back and got JJ in the early second. I remember everyone was upset we didn't pick Steven Jackson. Oh how times have changed.

I do have a duh observation on all this. Isn't it likely the reason most backs are in later rounds now simply the side effect of nobody picking backs early anymore?

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It's a byproduct of how short the shelf life of a running back is these days. Most guys are considered damaged goods by 27 or 28 years old nowadays. There is also a glut of talented RB's coming out of college these days and ready to be productive relative to other positions. Hence, they are being devalued.

Jaylon Smith's future is basically gona determine how we all look back on this draft.

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Your statement was poor, to say the least, IMO. At least own your statement instead of blaming me for not taking it correctly.

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"IMO" is the key I guess. Nothing we can do about our opinions. Again, I think the team agrees with my generic statement of not "needing" anything. We didn't draft a DB until round 6 so I think that says all you need to know about how much our team thinks we "need" DBs.

It's not always true... a few years ago we definitely needed a starting LT and got Smith. We desperately needed a #1 WR and got Dez. This year I think our neediest position was a #1 RB and pass rushing DE. We got the RB and may have helped DE a little with our 4th rounder. But even then we weren't screwed if we didn't get either. Our CBs are OK for now and our safeties are fine with our 1st rounder last year replacing Wilcox and Church being more of a SS.


It's dumb to argue though... it's a fine line between "we really need an upgrade here" vs. "we should be OK with the guys we have". Right now I'm on the "we're fine" side, but I'm also biased because they drafted the guy I wanted #1. I can see the other side for those that wanted Ramsey.

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I have no doubt the team agrees with you and the results since Jimmy left prove that out. Good stuff!