Please show me on the Vision doll where the MCU touched you.The Debt said:if you are trying to harness nuclear power you dont take out the safety rods.veryfuller said:
I think its likely she is trying to draw out the Scarlet Witch to drain her powers, like she did with the witches in the beginning. Especially because it seems certain that she isn't fully aware of all her capabilities and the fundamentals of her powers.
The best marvel films/tv have been where the villains are effective foils for the protagonists. Nothing about Agatha's actions make sense once she discovered the chaos magic in Wanda. She went from diabolical to bumbling fool in the span of 40secs.
Wanda went from "caught in a web" to "free and ready to confront Agatha" instantaneously and no one has a problem with this?
Think of it this way, the purpose of the room and the runes are merely a plot device to set up their "christmas carol" journey to wanda's history. But they created story tension by making Wanda powerless, then she just has it back. ...because Agatha needs to risk Wanda, who already exhibits power greater than her own, to become a god-tier character because that's when Agatha is most likely to succeed.
It doesn't make sense!
Fk it. Yall just keep eating whatever slop they throw in your trough.
Wandavision Discussion Thread
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Yeah, I mean...sure the question arises about why Agatha just let her go. At first I thought the doorway was just a device for the memory jaunt...but apparently it actually led Wanda away from the runes? Maybe Agatha had to release her from the rune room in order for Wanda to access those memories? There are a ton of actual reasons we ended up in the street ready for a fight...but, yeah I don't really care that much. The rest of the episode was nails, from a character/story perspective.
I think that, because we saw Agatha turn the power back on those witches and drain their life or power (which is what I assume happened) she wants to do the same to Wanda. I think her motivation is simply to gain more power.
I think that, because we saw Agatha turn the power back on those witches and drain their life or power (which is what I assume happened) she wants to do the same to Wanda. I think her motivation is simply to gain more power.
I'll say that was the first episode that truly grabbed me. The first couple were fun, but for me the different decade sitcom was good for the intro but then each episode would be 20 minutes of really slow development for the payoff at the end. A couple times I went a week or two before catching up. I just didn't really care that much.
This episode it all really came together in a tight episode that held me from beginning to end.
This episode it all really came together in a tight episode that held me from beginning to end.
I'm sure there will be a reason for it. You don't make a point of having Wanda trapped in simple runes, then run outside away from the runes. So Agatha's plan must make sense.
I got super excited at the white Vision because Vision is my favorite Avenger in the comics. The original Vision Quest storyline hit me hard. Wanda wakes up one day and her husband has been lobotomized, essentially. The white Vision is devoid of personality and feeling. They'd been married for years and then Vision, robotically, tells her how that's illogical and that he's an android and couldn't possibly love her. Brutal!
I wonder if, by the end of the next episode, the faux Vision will pass along his personality to white Vision? Or will Vision be truly dead and gone by the end of this and Wanda will have to learn to let go?
I got super excited at the white Vision because Vision is my favorite Avenger in the comics. The original Vision Quest storyline hit me hard. Wanda wakes up one day and her husband has been lobotomized, essentially. The white Vision is devoid of personality and feeling. They'd been married for years and then Vision, robotically, tells her how that's illogical and that he's an android and couldn't possibly love her. Brutal!
I wonder if, by the end of the next episode, the faux Vision will pass along his personality to white Vision? Or will Vision be truly dead and gone by the end of this and Wanda will have to learn to let go?
MASAXET said:
ETA: I'm also not 100% sold on someone else put the envelope there (although I lean that way). The way it was shot could be she had that envelope before going SWORD. She gets in the car, sees it, doesn't necessarily act shocked to see something in her car, and then starts driving away without looking at what's inside. Maybe she had it all along and it's not a plant?
I'm pretty sure she already had that and Vision left it for her.
BUT my big rub is go back to the first episode, the cop from EASTVIEW says there is no such town as Westview.
They completely did a reversal of that note.
Did you miss the part where Agatha had the kids on leashes and was clearly leading Wanda out? I'm not sure why, but I have a hunch there's another episode that will follow that very scene.Quote:
Wanda went from "caught in a web" to "free and ready to confront Agatha" instantaneously and no one has a problem with this?
redline248 said:
Yeah, I mean...sure the question arises about why Agatha just let her go. At first I thought the doorway was just a device for the memory jaunt...but apparently it actually led Wanda away from the runes? Maybe Agatha had to release her from the rune room in order for Wanda to access those memories? There are a ton of actual reasons we ended up in the street ready for a fight...but, yeah I don't really care that much. The rest of the episode was nails, from a character/story perspective.
I think that, because we saw Agatha turn the power back on those witches and drain their life or power (which is what I assume happened) she wants to do the same to Wanda. I think her motivation is simply to gain more power.
But that doesnt track either. Agatha chose which moments in Wanda's life to visit. There was no point in the episode where Agatha wasnt in control of Wanda until wanda runs out of the house unencumbered.
Agatha let.her.go. There was no resolution to the tension created, they are just expecting you to forget.
"MaYbE aGaThA hAs AnOtHeR pLaY" ok... but that has nothing to do with resolving the capture of Wanda.
Imagine Pulp fiction. Butch and Wallace wake up in the dungeon. Zed walks in and says "we are going to let you go" and they release Butch to go about his life. Butch may come back, sure, but you are conceding tension and removing the threat to the protagonist. It wouldnt make sense.
That was explained almost immediately that they were affected by proximity to the hex.OnlyForNow said:MASAXET said:
ETA: I'm also not 100% sold on someone else put the envelope there (although I lean that way). The way it was shot could be she had that envelope before going SWORD. She gets in the car, sees it, doesn't necessarily act shocked to see something in her car, and then starts driving away without looking at what's inside. Maybe she had it all along and it's not a plant?
I'm pretty sure she already had that and Vision left it for her.
BUT my big rub is go back to the first episode, the cop from EASTVIEW says there is no such town as Westview.
They completely did a reversal of that note.
They also made a point for Woo to mention that the cops magically "forgot" about the town. They were standing directly in front of the Westview sign. It's part of the magic of Scarlet Witch.OnlyForNow said:MASAXET said:
ETA: I'm also not 100% sold on someone else put the envelope there (although I lean that way). The way it was shot could be she had that envelope before going SWORD. She gets in the car, sees it, doesn't necessarily act shocked to see something in her car, and then starts driving away without looking at what's inside. Maybe she had it all along and it's not a plant?
I'm pretty sure she already had that and Vision left it for her.
BUT my big rub is go back to the first episode, the cop from EASTVIEW says there is no such town as Westview.
They completely did a reversal of that note.
Westview is a real town in the MCU that Wanda took over for herself. I don't think they reversed anything.
OnlyForNow said:MASAXET said:
ETA: I'm also not 100% sold on someone else put the envelope there (although I lean that way). The way it was shot could be she had that envelope before going SWORD. She gets in the car, sees it, doesn't necessarily act shocked to see something in her car, and then starts driving away without looking at what's inside. Maybe she had it all along and it's not a plant?
I'm pretty sure she already had that and Vision left it for her.
BUT my big rub is go back to the first episode, the cop from EASTVIEW says there is no such town as Westview.
They completely did a reversal of that note.
I'm confused on what that big rub is for you and how it relates here? The eastview cops said there is no westview because the people outside the hex have "selective amnesia" about the town as part of Wanda's spell. What did I miss?
Maybe Agatha needs Wanda to try and unleash on her so she can suck her powers out. The witches in Salem tried to use spells on her and she drained them dry.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
Maybe they are going the route shown at the beginning of the episode... the witches cast spells at Agatha first, which she then reversed.The Debt said:redline248 said:
Yeah, I mean...sure the question arises about why Agatha just let her go. At first I thought the doorway was just a device for the memory jaunt...but apparently it actually led Wanda away from the runes? Maybe Agatha had to release her from the rune room in order for Wanda to access those memories? There are a ton of actual reasons we ended up in the street ready for a fight...but, yeah I don't really care that much. The rest of the episode was nails, from a character/story perspective.
I think that, because we saw Agatha turn the power back on those witches and drain their life or power (which is what I assume happened) she wants to do the same to Wanda. I think her motivation is simply to gain more power.
But that doesnt track either. Agatha chose which moments in Wanda's life to visit. There was no point in the episode where Agatha wasnt in control of Wanda until wanda runs out of the house unencumbered.
Agatha let.her.go. There was no resolution to the tension created, they are just expecting you to forget.
"MaYbE aGaThA hAs AnOtHeR pLaY" ok... but that has nothing to do with resolving the capture of Wanda.
Imagine Pulp fiction. Butch and Wallace wake up in the dungeon. Zed walks in and says "we are going to let you go" and they release Butch to go about his life. Butch may come back, sure, but you are conceding tension and removing the threat to the protagonist. It wouldnt make sense.
Maybe Wanda has to do the same before Agatha can drain her power. So threatening the boys is her gamble to get Wanda to pull a Han Solo and shoot first.
edit:
dammit rhutton beat me to it by seconds.
rhutton125 said:
Maybe Agatha needs Wanda to try and unleash on her so she can suck her powers out. The witches in Salem tried to use spells on her and she drained them dry.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
No see the Salem part was dumb too because Agatha. let. the. other. witches. tie. her. up. She let it happen! The creators just hoped you'd forget about that and slurp up the slop they're throwing at you
/Debt
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to be fair, on second watch through, that first section does come off as rather cheesy.MASAXET said:rhutton125 said:
Maybe Agatha needs Wanda to try and unleash on her so she can suck her powers out. The witches in Salem tried to use spells on her and she drained them dry.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
No see the Salem part was dumb too because Agatha. let. the. other. witches. tie. her. up. She let it happen! The creators just hoped you'd forget about that and slurp up the slop they're throwing at you
/Debt
absolutely necessary character backstory and some motivation, but the production vibes just seem off.
Skimmed through the recent posts and couldn't find anything so sorry if this has already been discussed...
Any ideas around Wanda's kids? They aren't real outside the hex, right?
Agatha is using them as leverage over Wanda but I'm wondering if there are any actual stakes there beyond torturing the mind creations of a person who is already swallowed by grief.
Any ideas around Wanda's kids? They aren't real outside the hex, right?
Agatha is using them as leverage over Wanda but I'm wondering if there are any actual stakes there beyond torturing the mind creations of a person who is already swallowed by grief.
In the Salem flashback, I'm also not sure that it was Agatha doing that intentionally (at least at first) rather than an inherent reaction that she wasn't entirely controlling.rhutton125 said:
Maybe Agatha needs Wanda to try and unleash on her so she can suck her powers out. The witches in Salem tried to use spells on her and she drained them dry.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
very likely real.Bones08 said:
Skimmed through the recent posts and couldn't find anything so sorry if this has already been discussed...
Any ideas around Wanda's kids? They aren't real outside the hex, right?
Agatha is using them as leverage over Wanda but I'm wondering if there are any actual stakes there beyond torturing the mind creations of a person who is already swallowed by grief.
and we have Darcy's comment about that as well, although why she is an expert is questionable. But that could be the writers' way of saying that.
very obvious she was in control and it was intentional.fig96 said:In the Salem flashback, I'm also not sure that it was Agatha doing that intentionally (at least at first) rather than an inherent reaction that she wasn't entirely controlling.rhutton125 said:
Maybe Agatha needs Wanda to try and unleash on her so she can suck her powers out. The witches in Salem tried to use spells on her and she drained them dry.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
her fake scared demeanor changed immediately and then she easily and with almost no effort broke the magical bindings.
I mean, I think they could get away with it either way. It sure would seem as if the kids (and Vision inside the Hex) are just imaginary and would disappear once the Hex falls apart.Bones08 said:
Skimmed through the recent posts and couldn't find anything so sorry if this has already been discussed...
Any ideas around Wanda's kids? They aren't real outside the hex, right?
Agatha is using them as leverage over Wanda but I'm wondering if there are any actual stakes there beyond torturing the mind creations of a person who is already swallowed by grief.
That being said, if they gave us a storyline that Agatha used the Hex to create the children, we'd all buy it. Heck, it sure seems like they're trying to build towards the Young Avengers.... the kids will have to survive the show in some way if they're going to be a part of that.
rhutton125 said:
I'm sure there will be a reason for it. You don't make a point of having Wanda trapped in simple runes, then run outside away from the runes. So Agatha's plan must make sense.
I got super excited at the white Vision because Vision is my favorite Avenger in the comics. The original Vision Quest storyline hit me hard. Wanda wakes up one day and her husband has been lobotomized, essentially. The white Vision is devoid of personality and feeling. They'd been married for years and then Vision, robotically, tells her how that's illogical and that he's an android and couldn't possibly love her. Brutal!
I wonder if, by the end of the next episode, the faux Vision will pass along his personality to white Vision? Or will Vision be truly dead and gone by the end of this and Wanda will have to learn to let go?
I think Wanda is going to have to kill him two more times.
Need to rewatch, but it didn't seem that way at the beginning. Bindings broke a few minutes into that scene.C@LAg said:very obvious she was in control and it was intentional.fig96 said:In the Salem flashback, I'm also not sure that it was Agatha doing that intentionally (at least at first) rather than an inherent reaction that she wasn't entirely controlling.rhutton125 said:
Maybe Agatha needs Wanda to try and unleash on her so she can suck her powers out. The witches in Salem tried to use spells on her and she drained them dry.
Maybe it's not something she can do without her opponent tapping into their powers themselves.
her fake scared demeanor changed immediately and then she easily and with almost no effort broke the magical bindings.
Theory:
While the kids are presented as hers and Vision's, Vision does not actually have any sex organs, so they were always created solely by Wanda to be an extension of herself + Vision's "love" (hence why they inherited the two sets of mutants powers from her and her brother and nothing from Vision).
So in the MCU it could be that while both the kids and the Vision were created by Wanda in the hex, the copy of Vision is solely a creation of the hex, an empty vessel that she only populated with what she wanted it to have (fake Vision = Fision). The boys are an actual genetic extension of her, so could likely exist outside the hex.
While the kids are presented as hers and Vision's, Vision does not actually have any sex organs, so they were always created solely by Wanda to be an extension of herself + Vision's "love" (hence why they inherited the two sets of mutants powers from her and her brother and nothing from Vision).
So in the MCU it could be that while both the kids and the Vision were created by Wanda in the hex, the copy of Vision is solely a creation of the hex, an empty vessel that she only populated with what she wanted it to have (fake Vision = Fision). The boys are an actual genetic extension of her, so could likely exist outside the hex.
Interesting theories on the kids. Yea, I wouldn't mind at all if they end up being real and I'm now at least partially convinced they could be.
I'm curious how much and what the next and final episode will wrap up and what will be left handing for DS2 and such.
Good stuff for sure. May actually stay up until 2am for the finale next week.
I'm curious how much and what the next and final episode will wrap up and what will be left handing for DS2 and such.
Good stuff for sure. May actually stay up until 2am for the finale next week.
Regarding the envelope, I think it's possible that they had already picked out that plot of land together. Maybe Wanda was drawn to it due to the magic but just didn't know why.
Or Agatha just planted that to get her to go to the town. Both are possible.
Or Agatha just planted that to get her to go to the town. Both are possible.
I thought Agatha said she came to the town because of Wanda's power. She felt it and wanted to see what was creating that much magic.texasaggie04 said:
Regarding the envelope, I think it's possible that they had already picked out that plot of land together. Maybe Wanda was drawn to it due to the magic but just didn't know why.
Or Agatha just planted that to get her to go to the town. Both are possible.
Mother of god
no. just billy and tommy.amercer said:
Mother of god
So...Average Joe said:I thought Agatha said she came to the town because of Wanda's power. She felt it and wanted to see what was creating that much magic.texasaggie04 said:
Regarding the envelope, I think it's possible that they had already picked out that plot of land together. Maybe Wanda was drawn to it due to the magic but just didn't know why.
Or Agatha just planted that to get her to go to the town. Both are possible.
1. Wanda IS a bad guy as far as enslaving the town of West View is concerned. She created the hex and enslaved West View for purely selfish purposes.
2. Agatha took advantage of this for her own purposes - likely to take Wanda's powers
a. because she is evil and wants power
b. because there is another Big Bad
1. that she is serving
or
2. and she needs enough power to defeat/escape from
3. Hayward is
a. a cliche overly ambitious human general willing to do anything to "get his weapon"
b. a good guy general wanting a weapon as he knows about Skrulls and the Secret Invasion
c. a Skrull wanting a weapon for the Secret Invasion
I agree with all of the above. My comment was more along the lines of that I don't think Agatha is responsible for the map. I think she only became interested in Wanda once she felt the power of the hex.C@LAg said:So...Average Joe said:I thought Agatha said she came to the town because of Wanda's power. She felt it and wanted to see what was creating that much magic.texasaggie04 said:
Regarding the envelope, I think it's possible that they had already picked out that plot of land together. Maybe Wanda was drawn to it due to the magic but just didn't know why.
Or Agatha just planted that to get her to go to the town. Both are possible.
1. Wanda IS a bad guy as far as enslaving the town of West View is concerned. She created the hex and enslaved West View for purely selfish purposes.
2. Agatha took advantage of this for her own purposes - likely to take Wanda's powers
a. because she is evil and wants power
b. because there is another Big Bad
1. that she is serving
or
2. and she needs enough power to defeat/escape from
3. Hayward is
a. a cliche overly ambitious human general willing to do anything to "get his weapon"
b. a good guy general wanting a weapon as he knows about Skrulls and the Secret Invasion
c. a Skrull wanting a weapon for the Secret Invasion
To me, this entire episode basically told us that there is no big baddie in the background pulling strings. I think we are very much looking at an opportunistic Agatha and a poor man's General Ross.
For a limit run of episodes, I'm ok with this. We didn't get much closure on Wanda/Vision after IW. If this ends with us not having a Thanos/Galactus/dormammu pulling strings in the background then I would not be disappointed. There is plenty of conflict to deal with already in this series.
I also want to add that this series has done an absolutely amazing job with character growth and pacing. It didn't seem like it after the first couple of episodes, but makes a ton of sense now.
And I still don't know what's up with Dottie or the mailman!
mailman was just a regular person in the "before" clip when Wanda drove into town, wasn't he?texasaggie04 said:
And I still don't know what's up with Dottie or the mailman!
Dottie is still an unknown.
There *has* to be something to Agnes telling Wanda that Dottie is "the key to everything." And then, in basically the same breath, saying "the devil's in the details." In that moment I figured Dottie would feature prominently in the series, but then I don't think they ever referenced her again? So I don't know what to make of all that...
Turns out the mailman was just a pizza guy or something. By the way, interesting comment from Fietro about everyone getting better jobs. Westview looked like a dump before Wanda showed up.
As to selfish reasons... I agree keeping it going all along was selfish, but I think creating it all in the first place was an accident.
As to selfish reasons... I agree keeping it going all along was selfish, but I think creating it all in the first place was an accident.
Omg, Fietro is the missing person Woo was sent to find, isn't he?
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