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Bender's Big AR-15 & Semi Auto Shilling Thread

538,026 Views | 2919 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by robstrom
jeremy360
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12:51p, 6/21/16
Def not NFA.

Was looking for AR platform. Guess I should have mentioned that.

Ah, was assuming if running closer to max (not max) loads, a little longer bbl would help. Especially if using H110 or 4198 as they aren't known for fast burning.

Good to know.

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35chililights
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1:11p, 6/21/16
AG
I was assuming that you were, asking in this thread, but was going to at least throw those options out there.

I've not seen any 300blk barrels for the AR platform that are anything other than a pistol length gas system. That alone should tell you something about its powder burning characteristics.

Again, I could be wrong on this, but my understanding is to think of the 300blk as a pistol round, more than a rifle round.

Just in case you're not up to speed. http://www.at3tactical.com/blogs/news/9298047-carbine-mid-or-rifle-a-beginner-s-guide-to-ar15-gas-systems
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35chililights
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1:12p, 6/21/16
AG
Have you looked at the 6.8?
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jeremy360
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1:24p, 6/21/16
Ok, Just long enough to be non-NFA and burn the powder is all im looking for. Guess the limiting factor is NFA.

Guess im not against a pistol, but was thinking more along the lines of a rifle. I'll need to do a little digging, but im assuming a good rifle brand would yield a good pistol brand?

I ruled out 6.8 since you cant use a 233 platform.
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The Wonderer
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In reply to jeremy360 • 1:26p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
Ok, Just long enough to be non-NFA and burn the powder is all im looking for. Guess the limiting factor is NFA.

Guess im not against a pistol, but was thinking more along the lines of a rifle. I'll need to do a little digging, but im assuming a good rifle brand would yield a good pistol brand?

I ruled out 6.8 since you cant use a 233 platform.
The shortest you can go with NFA stamps is 16"

You could build a pistol and use a brace like the KAK Blade.
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jeremy360
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1:35p, 6/21/16
Im open to pistol with a brace.

Seems 9" was what the 300 was made for.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/foghorn/ask-foghorn-questions-300-aac-blackout-rifle/

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The Wonderer
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In reply to jeremy360 • 1:55p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
Im open to pistol with a brace.

Seems 9" was what the 300 was made for.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/foghorn/ask-foghorn-questions-300-aac-blackout-rifle/

It was.

I have a Sig Brace on an AR, but the BATFE has issued a letter regarding it now.


I have a KAK Blade coming in shortly for my .300 blk build.
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Lonestar_Ag09
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1:55p, 6/21/16
AG
Looking at glass for my AR. I have always really liked Nikon. Thoughts on the Nikon P-223 3x32?

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jeremy360
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1:58p, 6/21/16
The kak looks like a preferred option to me over the SIG.
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The Wonderer
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In reply to jeremy360 • 2:02p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
The kak looks like a preferred option to me over the SIG.
If you go this route, get this tube: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CRTRUY0/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AT6E93Q2LTEKX

It has dimples for the set screw to set length of pull where the blade sits against your forearm.
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Naveronski
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2:02p, 6/21/16
AG
16-18" barrel... 6.5, 6.8.

I can't fathom wanting a 18" .300blk.
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BenderRodriguez
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3:11p, 6/21/16
AG
I don't see much point in going .300blk if you're not going SBR or pistol build either.

As for triggers, keep an eye out for the occasional geissele trigger sale at primary arms.

Their triggers are phenomenal.

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TheEyeGuy
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In reply to The Wonderer • 3:11p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Ok, Just long enough to be non-NFA and burn the powder is all im looking for. Guess the limiting factor is NFA.

Guess im not against a pistol, but was thinking more along the lines of a rifle. I'll need to do a little digging, but im assuming a good rifle brand would yield a good pistol brand?

I ruled out 6.8 since you cant use a 233 platform.
The shortest you can go with NFA stamps is 16"

You could build a pistol and use a brace like the KAK Blade.
Or 14.5" with a pinned brake
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TheVarian
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3:32p, 6/21/16
AG
What's that new one? The 25-45? What about that?
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kerrag06
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3:34p, 6/21/16
AG
[Find another place if you want to be a troll. Doing it on this forum is a good way to get a quick ban. -Staff]
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to kerrag06 • 3:52p, 6/21/16
AG
[Posters, if you think a poster is trolling, flag it. Please don't quote it and give us more to clean up. -Staff]

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BenderRodriguez
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3:57p, 6/21/16
AG
Sorry Staff.

Kerrag, if you're like to discuss your concern about the legality of AR-15s, start a thread on it. I'd be happy to discuss the matter with you.

But this thread isn't for that.

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ttha_aggie_09
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In reply to Lonestar_Ag09 • 4:07p, 6/21/16
AG
I've got one on my AR. It's not bad at all but I might be willing to let it go for a red dot or a new scope on another rifle.
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BenderRodriguez
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4:30p, 6/21/16
AG
Alright, back to guns:

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CharlieBrown17
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4:46p, 6/21/16
AG


I also have a sweet build on EyeGuys class of 2017 upper/lower set half way done at home but it's waiting on funds to finish out the upper.
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jeremy360
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4:53p, 6/21/16
I haven't really looked at the 6.8spc. Specs look ok for it. Decent ballistics.

What brands are yall liking? Spikes, Anderson, Aero precision, etc?

Giessel triggers seem to be the standard trigger upgrade,
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GIGM03
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5:34p, 6/21/16
AG
I am probably late to the party, but this thread has convinced me to buy my first AR and would love some input on which direction to go. I have read through this entire thread and really appreciate all the great information that has been provided as I have learned a ton. I have been a life long deer/waterfowl hunter and have never ventured into the AR world so my knowledge is extremely limited. I also do a lot of hog hunting and have always used a bolt action rifle for that, but certainly see the benefit to using an AR instead. With that being said I would love some input on which AR platform I should go with.

Intended use: Primarily for hog hunting at ranges anywhere from 50-200 yards.

Budget: One of EyeGuy's AR deals. Would like to keep the price in the $500-$800 range.

Based on the information I have gathered in this thread it seems like either the 300 BLK or 6.8 SPC is the way to go for my intended use. I like the idea of a 300 BLK due to its versatility, but based on feedback from Bender and others it doesn't sound like it is worth having a 300 BLK in a 16" barrel which is the length I would get in the grab bag deal. I also wouldn't have any immediate plans to put a suppressor on it as it sounds like the supersonic rounds are preferred for hunting vs using a suppressor with a subsonic round. On the flip side it sounds like the 6.8 has a longer more accurate range which would be ideal for shots out to the 200 yard range, but it doesn't provide the versatility on ammo or being able to easily swap uppers like you can with a 300 BLK.

Any input would be much appreciated.
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35chililights
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5:42p, 6/21/16
AG
This is a good article.

I went with a 3.5 pound trigger from Velocity. I got it before they bumped their prices up, so it was pretty cheap. Price was pretty much my determining factor. I like it and would buy again, but I also don't have any time behind any of the other triggers.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-drop-in-trigger-roundup/



I'll let some of the other guys comment on the 6.8 components and brands. I've got a good buddy who has one made by bushmaster and he hasn't had any problems with it. It is pretty much his go-to for hogs and pest control.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to GIGM03 • 6:05p, 6/21/16
AG
Some people prefer other calibers, but I know a lot of guys perfectly happy to hunt hog with 5.56.

I half suspect the "I need a 6.8 to hunt hog" talk you hear is half about convincing themselves/the spouse that they need a new AR in a different caliber, and less an indictment of 5.56 for hog hunting.

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35chililights
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In reply to GIGM03 • 6:09p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
Based on the information I have gathered in this thread it seems like either the 300 BLK or 6.8 SPC is the way to go for my intended use.


I disagree. I think .223/5.56 is more than enough to for you intended purpose and price range

quote:
I like the idea of a 300 BLK due to its versatility, but based on feedback from Bender and others it doesn't sound like it is worth having a 300 BLK in a 16" barrel which is the length I would get in the grab bag deal. I also wouldn't have any immediate plans to put a suppressor on it as it sounds like the supersonic rounds are preferred for hunting vs using a suppressor with a subsonic round.


Again, I disagree. The 300 blk is a very niche round. It is essentially a compromise to get a short-barreled easily suppressible fire arm that carries a decent amount of weight to about 150 to 200 yards using the AR platform. It was designed to compete with 9 mm submachineguns, not replace the 223 carbine.

quote:
On the flip side it sounds like the 6.8 has a longer more accurate range which would be ideal for shots out to the 200 yard range, but it doesn't provide the versatility on ammo or being able to easily swap uppers like you can with a 300 BLK.


Ahh. Now I understand what you meant by versatility. With that in mind I would start with the 223 and if you ever wanted to delve into the 300 blackout, then you can go buy a barrel and knock yourself out. But I don't think it would be in your best interest to start with a 300 blackout.

quote:
Any input would be much appreciated.


Well, you'll probably get very much of that here. Probably more than you want.


Just so you're aware, all of my input on the 300 blackout is coming from a guy who just built a 300 blackout rig. But I built it with the full intention of running a short barrel rifle with a suppressor, the exact role the 300 blackout was designed for.


I have a group of buddies that are going out every week. Slaying them with 50grain polymer tips. They do just fine with .223/5.56.
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TheEyeGuy
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6:17p, 6/21/16
AG
Starting off, 556 or 6.8. You don't have to really compromise with either, outside of price. Have I killed a lot of hogs with 5.56? Definitely. Do they drop faster with 6.8? Even more so. Most importantly, am I more comfortable deer hunting with a 6.8? Yeah, because I have more respect for deer and want to absolutely ensure a quick, humane kill. Plus, if a muy grande walks out at 300 yards, I have no qualms sending a 6.8 that far on a deer. I don't feel well about sending a 556 round that far unless it's with a pig. I've popped a pig at 425 with a 6.8 and had no regrets taking the shot. So, if you plan on deer hunting with the rifle, look at 6.8. If you don't then 556 is definitely a great option.
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Pasquale Liucci
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In reply to GIGM03 • 6:35p, 6/21/16
AG
FWIW I strongly second all the points EyeGuy makes regarding the 6.8. He built me one a couple months ago and it is freaking sweet.

Unless you just really want to run suppressed or do an SBR for your first gun, I don't see a huge point in the 300. Don't get me wrong, great round, but suppressed/short barrel applications is where it really distinguishes itself.

The 556 is a nice, fast, versatile and readily available round. If you plan to be shooting a ton, price of ammo is certainly something to think about.

6.8 is much more expensive to shoot but shouldn't be a huge issue unless you're just running through it by the 100s every weekend (in which case I'm supremely jealous). Like EyeGuy said, the additional oomph you're gonna get out of the 6.8 is nice as well. You'll be shooting 120ish gr bullets instead of 55-62. Those same heavier bullets will still be really cooking out to 250-300 yards and beyond that very very capable of taking most game in the hands of a competent shooter. 6.8 is no 6.5 Grendel but it has some very above average ballistics.

Oh and see Rule 1 compliance below on my 6.8
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GIGM03
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6:49p, 6/21/16
AG
All great feedback guys. Very helpful and much appreciated. EyeGuy will you be at your shop tomorrow? If so I am going to try and swing by around 10:00-10:30.
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jeremy360
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7:17p, 6/21/16
6.8 argument is convincing.

Would like to see what brand lower/upper/complete people like.
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TheEyeGuy
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In reply to jeremy360 • 7:34p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
6.8 argument is convincing.

Would like to see what brand lower/upper/complete people like.


Armadillo series of course
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35chililights
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In reply to jeremy360 • 7:57p, 6/21/16
AG
quote:
6.8 argument is convincing.

Would like to see what brand lower/upper/complete people like.
As long as it is mil-spec, it will function. Anything past that, you're just buying for looks or specific purpose.

For instance, my first build was on a cheap forged lower and upper by the now defunct, Anvil Arms. Just because they went out of business, doesn't mean I'm toast. I can swap out anything on it with pieces I want. For your info it is a 16" chambered in 5.56 with a 1:9 twist. Its intended purpose was to build a rig that was about as cheap as I could build, but with a quad rail and decent stock.




My newest is my new 300 blk. In sharp contrast to my first build, I pretty much picked out every component I wanted and didn't hold back. I'm talking, I customized it down to the takedown pins, and selector switch (safety) and threw in an adjustable gas block for good measure. The only parts not 'upgraded' are the castle nut, the detents and springs, and the receiver end plate. It was built on billet SanTan upper and lower. Not surprisingly, it is also my most expensive to date.

11.3" 300blk



My current 'in progress' hasn't been finalized yet. I'm considering a longer barrel, 20", just to reap the (perceived) benefits of a rifle length gas system, but I want to stick with .223/5.56. It'll be my competition rifle. I have a mil-spec forged Spikes lower that it'll be based on, but i'm considering a proprietary upper by Aero Precision for the upper. Of course my builds are always fluid and can ebb and flow with the seconds of the day.


This is what those not familiar with the AR15 platform don't understand. It's versatility is endless. It's customization is endless. The more you build, the more you become familiar, the more you can troubleshoot and adapt. Its a great hobby, albeit expensive.

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CharlieBrown17
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In reply to 35chililights • 8:07p, 6/21/16
AG
The build I mentioned on my class set receivers is a 20" with rifle length gas.

Part list I went with:
20" Larue Barrel
15" ALG EMR V3 handguard
adjustable gas block
Magpul MIAD grip
Geissele G2S-E
RRA Operator A2 Stock
BCM gunfighter Mod 3 charging handle
Strike Industries Type 89 muzzle break
Harris Bipod

All topped off with a vortex viper 6.5-20x50.

It will be sweet when done, hoping to finish it this christmas break since I'll start getting a little stipend money from the Air Force when I contract in September. The entire lower is together and I already have the scope because I got a steal on one used. Missing a few upper parts, but I'm happy I haven't just bought crap to throw it together.
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CactusThomas
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In reply to CharlieBrown17 • 8:09p, 6/21/16
AG
Nice
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35chililights
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In reply to CharlieBrown17 • 8:47p, 6/21/16
AG
Thats going to be sweet.

I'm curious to see what the 15" rail will look like with the 20" barrel. I spent a great deal of time trying to make sure my barrel and rail would line up like I wanted on the 300 build. I wanted a 'seamless' transition from rail to suppressor, but also the ability to fire it unsuppressed if I wanted. Luckily YHM, my suppressor choice manufacturer, also makes a "blast deflector" that aids in that regard and get the escaping gasses out from under the rail.

I know its trivial, but hey, they can look as good as they shoot too.



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35chililights
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9:04p, 6/21/16
AG
Also, for those that are new to the land of the AR, there has been historical booms and busts before. One of the largest booms was prior and just after the 2008 Presidential election.

Here is a collection of threads from those dark days:

http://texags.com/forums/34/topics/1072604
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