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Bender's Big AR-15 & Semi Auto Shilling Thread

527,970 Views | 2919 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by robstrom
35chililights
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AG
What handguard is currently on it?
Fenix makes some lights in that lumen range at that price point. If your wanting it for outside, look for more throw and not spread.
35chililights
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Once you've danced the Form 1 dance, is the second dance any quicker or is it the same time? Assuming nothing changes but the type and serial number.
txyaloo
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quote:
quote:
quote:
As Bender has found, roller locks are a sickness. They're like a bag of potato chips. You can't have just one. Eventually you'll have enough to need a roller lock safe.

Very much so.

I honestly don't know what prices are going to do on either the new HK imports or the foreign imports. Some people find it really, really important to own stuff actually made by HK, but considering how many clones I've seen run with full auto sears, abused the heck out of and still running I'm less fussy about it than a lot of the HK kool aide drinkers. My biggest excitement about the HK imports is that maybe it'll drive clone pricing down, to be honest.


Sorry for the noob question but what is a roller lock versus a normal AR?

HK 9X guns operate from a delayed roller locked bolt. The bolt has a locking piece and rollers that lock into the trunion where the barrel is mounted. The locking piece has shoulders cut at a specific angle. The angle determines the "delay" before the rollers unlock from the trunion and the bolt/carrier returns to the rear to load a new round.

Wiki gives a decent description

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_locked
txyaloo
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Once you've danced the Form 1 dance, is the second dance any quicker or is it the same time? Assuming nothing changes but the type and serial number.
Nope. No advantage to already having NFA.
35chililights
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That's no Bueno. I want to get a pass card that allows me to skip the lines. NFA on demand. I'll pee in a cup. Just tell me what I need to do.
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
Sorry for the noob question but what is a roller lock versus a normal AR?

All semi auto/full auto guns have to use some method to eject the spent round and chamber a new round with only the trigger being pulled.

Roller locks is slang for a style of gun that uses a different operating system than your conventional AR or AK.

(Most) AR-15s operate on a system of direct impingement. Gas is vented from the barrel to a gas tube, which carries the gas back to the bolt carrier, pushing it back, ejecting the spent round and picking up another from the magazine.

AR-15 in operation:



There are a lot of guns (AKs, Sigs, Tavors, FALs, etc) that are piston systems. Gas is vented from the barrel to a tube, where the gas pushes on a piston, which then manipulates the bolt carrier.

Piston system in operation:



Roller lock is common slang for what is more precisely called a roller delayed blowback firearm: A gun with no gas system at all.



The rollers are the circles you see on either side of the red two piece bolt. In the most basic terms, rollers keep the bolt engaged in the chamber until the pressure has dropped enough to safely open the chamber of the firearm. Essentially, roller delayed blowback is the most German possible answer to the question "How do I use the firing of a cartridge to load the next cartridge?" in that it is among the more complicated ways to make a semi auto or full auto firearm work.

So why on earth would you prefer the more complicated system?

Well, for one the gun doesn't require a piston or a direct impingement gas system to work. This is the reason the G3 (Germany's roller delayed blowback rifle during the Cold War) was lighter and shorter than its contemporaries, the M-14 and the FAL.

They also were much easier to free float. While Free float handguards are all the rage now on ARs (and for good reason), the roller lock guns were using free floated barrels for years before other designs, who had to contend with how to free float and protect/secure their required gas system.

Finally, they're pretty dang reliable. Yes, so are other designs, but no gas system means a roller lock gun has one less group of parts to break, malfunction, or be damaged and prevent proper semi auto/full auto function.

The most well known examples are the G3 rifle in .308, and the MP5 series in 9mm, though they can be found in 10mm, 5.56, and 7.62x39 as well.

My first two were a G3 clone and an MP5 clone pictured below:




BenderRodriguez
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Also, I have a 16in AR15 from stag arms that I think needs a light to investigate strange noises in the dark now that we are living semi-rural.
The handguard on my AR has no holes or railing so I likely will buy a handguard to match the light and would prefer a light in the 700-1100 lumen range. Any recs for $100 to $150?

Sorry to break up my answers in two different posts, but roller lock questions always deserve their own response.

I can try to take pictures tomorrow if you'd like, but my preferred way to do this on the cheap is with a Magpul MOE handguard, attach a small rail section and then add a TLR-1 HL. That shouldn't run more than ~$150.

I prefer pistol lights because a)then I can also use them on my pistols and b) they're light and small.

ttha_aggie_09
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Wow! Excellent info. Thanks for sharing!
txyaloo
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That's no Bueno. I want to get a pass card that allows me to skip the lines. NFA on demand. I'll pee in a cup. Just tell me what I need to do.
Get an FFL and an SOT

Building an NFA item and submitting a Form 2 to the govt telling them you built it w/o needing permission first is a glorious feeling.
The Wonderer
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quote:
quote:
That's no Bueno. I want to get a pass card that allows me to skip the lines. NFA on demand. I'll pee in a cup. Just tell me what I need to do.
Get an FFL and an SOT

Building an NFA item and submitting a Form 2 to the govt telling them you built it w/o needing permission first is a glorious feeling.
Please expound on this.
txyaloo
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One thing to mention - roller locks do require more maintenance than DI or piston guns. Eventually the trunion begins to wear from the rollers and oversize rollers are required to maintain correct head spacing. I'm using +2 rollers in my FS MP5 which probably has 20k rounds through it. Some also have issues running when dirty. Thankfully the fluted chamber helps but sometimes the inside of the receiver and trunion just gets gunked up. When the trunion gets gunked up, the rollers can't extend fully, and the bolt won't lock. I keep a can of carb cleaner in the range bag for those days. Pull the stock, drop the pack, and spray out the receiver and trunion. Sling the gunk out, put a bit of oil on the rails, and you're good to go again. My ARs will run when really dirty as long as I keep them wet.

HKs specifically also love to eat extractor springs. I've never really had spring issues in my other guns, but I go through a handful per year in the HKs. Extra springs and extra stock pins are great things to keep in the range bag. I also keep an entire bolt group in mine, but I run my guns really hard.
TheEyeGuy
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AG
quote:
quote:
That's no Bueno. I want to get a pass card that allows me to skip the lines. NFA on demand. I'll pee in a cup. Just tell me what I need to do.
Get an FFL and an SOT

Building an NFA item and submitting a Form 2 to the govt telling them you built it w/o needing permission first is a glorious feeling.
Absolutely!
TheEyeGuy
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AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
That's no Bueno. I want to get a pass card that allows me to skip the lines. NFA on demand. I'll pee in a cup. Just tell me what I need to do.
Get an FFL and an SOT

Building an NFA item and submitting a Form 2 to the govt telling them you built it w/o needing permission first is a glorious feeling.
Please expound on this.
Those of use that have an 07 manufacturer's ffl and an 02 SOT can build NFA items and all we have to do is notify the ATF that we built it. No tax stamps and no permission from big brother.
txyaloo
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AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
That's no Bueno. I want to get a pass card that allows me to skip the lines. NFA on demand. I'll pee in a cup. Just tell me what I need to do.
Get an FFL and an SOT

Building an NFA item and submitting a Form 2 to the govt telling them you built it w/o needing permission first is a glorious feeling.
Please expound on this.
If you get a manufacturing FFL (07) and pay the $500/yr special occupational tax, you can create whatever NFA items you want without first getting BATFE permission. If you want to make 400 SBRs, 300 suppressors, and 2000 machine guns, you make them and then notify BATFE within 24 hours that they've been made. This is done on a Form 2. Form 2s like a Form 3 has no tax associated with it.

When you give up your FFL, you can keep any SBR/SBS and suppressors you made or purchased. All machine guns have to be sold or destroyed unless they're a pre-sample. Only FFLs can buy pre-samples and prices are 60-70% lower than the market rate for normal transferable MGs.

You can do all of this out of your house, but you have to convince BATFE you're going to be in the business of manufacturing firearms, and you also have to comply with all HOA/zoning/other city regulations before they'll issue a license. After complying with all the above, for around $600/yr you can play with lots of toys. State Dept expects manufacturers to also pay $2250/yr to register for ITAR, but there are ways around that fee.
BenderRodriguez
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Once I'm settled and all the wife's loans are paid off....I'm going to have to look into this.....not least of which because I really, really want this:

txyaloo
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quote:
Once I'm settled and all the wife's loans are paid off....I'm going to have to look into this.....not least of which because I really, really want this:



We transferred a 23E for a customer. He also bought 2 MP5s with sear packs. The 23E was a blast.

He also had a truck mounted Ma Deuce with an 800 yd private range. We broke the toys out of FFL jail one day and spent an afternoon using the M2 to blow up appliances filled with tannerite. It was pretty ridiculous!
Ulysses90
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Good video of roller lock operation on MG42

I'm not an expert but from reading the links posted above there seems to be a distinction between true roller locking and delayed roller blowback in that the barrel actually moves backward out of battery a short distance in roller locked weapons.
35chililights
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Well sh/t. Looks like I'm going too loose more money in the butt stock market.
bearamedic99
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quote:
quote:
Also, I have a 16in AR15 from stag arms that I think needs a light to investigate strange noises in the dark now that we are living semi-rural.
The handguard on my AR has no holes or railing so I likely will buy a handguard to match the light and would prefer a light in the 700-1100 lumen range. Any recs for $100 to $150?

Sorry to break up my answers in two different posts, but roller lock questions always deserve their own response.

I can try to take pictures tomorrow if you'd like, but my preferred way to do this on the cheap is with a Magpul MOE handguard, attach a small rail section and then add a TLR-1 HL. That shouldn't run more than ~$150.

I prefer pistol lights because a)then I can also use them on my pistols and b) they're light and small.


I actually have an extra Magpul MOE handguard from when I thought about making it more flat dark earth colored. I found a decent deal on the TLR-1 HL long rifle kit. Just would like advice on which angle (6 o'clock, 3 o'clock, etc) to mount the light and should I put the control on the pistol grip or where?
dubi
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quote:
TLR-1 HL long rifle kit
I have the pressure pad on mine mounted on the bottom of the barrel. I shoot left and hubby shoots right, so we have to do either top or bottom for it to work.
aggie_wes
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Gander running a 20% off sale on lots of firearms. Trying to decide between windham SRC or one of the cheap bushmasters.

The Anderson looks ok, but I'm not convinced on quality. Anybody have any input?
BenderRodriguez
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Even with 20% off, I'd be surprised if Gander prices are better than what you could find online. Have you done any price comparisons?

check out www.slickguns.com and search for the specific model you're looking at to get an idea of prices.
aggie_wes
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The windham was 719 with the 20%. A little cheaper than academy. That's not the "carbon fiber" version either.

I handled the bushmaster, it felt like an entry level cheap rifle so i didn't buy it. They didn't have the others I was looking at in stock.
BenderRodriguez
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quote:
would like advice on which angle (6 o'clock, 3 o'clock, etc) to mount the light and should I put the control on the pistol grip or where?

I don't really know about where to place the tape switch, because I don't use them. I actually really like the rocker switch that comes standard on the TLRs, because its perfect for "strobe-move-strobe" style you should be using with a defensive light.

Where I have lights mounted actually varies a little bit, because I have lights on two different guns mounted on a semi permanent basis. Keep in mind I am a left handed rifle shooter. My AR-15 has a TLR mounted at 3 o clock, with a stubby VFG at 6 o clock along side it. What this allows me to do is use the VFG almost as a handstop, extending my non firing hand with palm supinate until it hits the VFG. This puts my right handed thumb in a great position to bump the rocker switch on the TLR.

I also have a more traditional tail end push cap light on an AK, and so I have it mounted at 7 o clock and a VFG mounted at 6. With AKs I prefer to grab the VFG with my palm pronate, which places my thumb right at the end of the light on the push button when mounted at 7 o clock.

Clear as mud, I know. I'll try to get pictures next week if all this is confusing or contradictory if anyone cares.
What I probably should have typed instead of all that about what I personally do is that in general, when it comes to lights just figure out what is going to allow you the quickest and easiest manipulation of on/off without changing your grip on the firearm to do so.

bearamedic99
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thanks
FrontPorchAg
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Bought the Colt 6920 today. Now my awesome 10 day wait....


Congrats. Come live in NV
RebelE Infantry
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Just following up on this.
35chililights
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Her stamp is in!

Gentlemen, meet Lucille.

35chililights
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Anything so innocent and built like that just gotta be named Lucille.

-Dragline
Silvy
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Ordered my first AR-15 today.

PSA blem lower, PSA mid length melonite upper, and an A2 rear sight.
txyaloo
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quote:
Ordered my first AR-15 today.

PSA blem lower, PSA mid length melonite upper, and an A2 rear sight.
Can't wait to see how the LS swap and plastidip are going to be incorporated into the build!
Naveronski
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quote:

I was going to SBR a quarter circle 10 dedicated 9mm glock mag lower, but now I'm even more torn.

major first world problem here.

Do you already have that lower?
35chililights
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quote:

Do you already have that lower?


No.
I am also considering a magwell block, but since I chose to use a San Tan lower, with a flared magwell, as my SBR lower, I'm not sure how it will fit.

Why? Do you have any experience with them?
dubi
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quote:
Ordered my first AR-15 today.

PSA blem lower, PSA mid length melonite upper, and an A2 rear sight.
Does this mean no front sight?
Naveronski
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quote:
quote:

Do you already have that lower?


No.
I am also considering a magwell block, but since I chose to use a San Tan lower, with a flared magwell, as my SBR lower, I'm not sure how it will fit.

Why? Do you have any experience with them?
I do not. I've looked at them for a while, and they seem to be well received.

If you had changed your mind, I was going to offer to buy yours.
 
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