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Bender's Big AR-15 & Semi Auto Shilling Thread

546,718 Views | 2919 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by robstrom
BenderRodriguez
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3:15p, 5/6/16
AG
A few more pictures of the MP5 reverse stretch.

The reason this is such a great little gun is that it is about the best combination of compact and accurate that you can get. We all know that a rifle is easier to make hits with than a handgun. The reason everyone carries and uses handguns though is that they're about a 1000% easier to carry around than a big rifle. I'm a huge handgun guy and I love shooting them, but this thing is a blast.

For comparison, here it is with just about the shortest rifle caliber AR set up you can find, a 7.5" AR-15 pistol. Notice that while it is much bigger than the pistol, the MP5 clone is still easily half the size of the AR.



That is great, because that means that the MP5 fits into a laptop bag that the AR couldn't dream of fitting into.







MP5 clones are fun. Everyone should have one. Few more parting pictures.





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txyaloo
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In reply to BenderRodriguez • 3:45p, 5/6/16
AG
My K is my "truck gun". Lives in a laptop case with its dedicated can. Probably the most fun gun I own. I definitely have more trigger time on it than any other gun I own.

BTW Bender - look what's coming to the US! I'd hold off on that F1 for a few weeks.....

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pdtnation
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9:53p, 5/6/16
AG
Anyone know a shop open on Saturdays around the Memorial area in Houston to get a takedown detent spring that won't charge 5x the cost online?
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TheEyeGuy
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In reply to pdtnation • 10:26p, 5/6/16
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quote:
Anyone know a shop open on Saturdays around the Memorial area in Houston to get a takedown detent spring that won't charge 5x the cost online?
Dude, just come by the store and I'll give you one. Not crazy far from Memorial.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to txyaloo • 11:53p, 5/6/16
AG
quote:
My K is my "truck gun". Lives in a laptop case with its dedicated can. Probably the most fun gun I own. I definitely have more trigger time on it than any other gun I own.

It is nice how small the things are, and how easy they are to get hits with at 100 yards.

Best of both worlds, for sure.

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pdtnation
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In reply to TheEyeGuy • 9:29a, 5/7/16
AG
Thanks for the offer. Surprisingly, Collector's had one for a buck.
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swrdply400mrelay
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11:16a, 5/7/16
AG
Bender: who makes the MP5?
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TheCougarHunter
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4:58p, 5/7/16
AG
The msrp makes me cry
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txyaloo
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In reply to swrdply400mrelay • 5:21p, 5/7/16
AG
quote:
Bender: who makes the MP5?
I believe his is a POF aka Zenith.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to txyaloo • 5:28p, 5/7/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Bender: who makes the MP5?
I believe his is a POF aka Zenith.


Half right. It's a POF, made in Pakistan. It's about as cheap as you can get into the MP5 game, and the painted finish shows it. But it runs great, never had a single malfunction.

Zenith guns are just slightly more expensive, and they're importing Turkish made clones.

I believe both guns are made in HK licensed factories, but some may prefer the nicer finish on the Zenith guns.
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txyaloo
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In reply to BenderRodriguez • 8:32p, 5/7/16
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
Bender: who makes the MP5?
I believe his is a POF aka Zenith.


Half right. It's a POF, made in Pakistan. It's about as cheap as you can get into the MP5 game, and the painted finish shows it. But it runs great, never had a single malfunction.

Zenith guns are just slightly more expensive, and they're importing Turkish made clones.

I believe both guns are made in HK licensed factories, but some may prefer the nicer finish on the Zenith guns.
I was thinking MKE became POF which became Zenith, but it looks like MKE just became Zenith. I haven't paid a ton of attention to the clone game the last few years.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to txyaloo • 10:10p, 5/7/16
AG
Yep, mke=zenith, POF is its own thing.

Sorely tempted by the Zenith 12" 5.56 pistols. Wish the new HK clones took AR magazines though.
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Troy91
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5:32a, 5/8/16
AG
Having spent 6 years in the USMC infantry and security forces, I have been privileged to shoot a lot of weapons from different countries.

My favorite, by far, is the MP5. We used it for house clearing and ship assault. It is an amazing weapon with very little recoil when properly slung and shouldered.

That weapon will chew through a magazine in a heartbeat without leaving centermass, bruising your shoulder or slicing up your trigger finger.

Bender, you have now made me want to spend more money. Again. I have to stop reading your posts.

I now have a missing item from my personal armory.
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bearamedic99
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7:57a, 5/8/16
AG
Dammit Bender, I don't have the budget but feel lacking. I now crave the AR pistol and that mp5 clone.

ps- any thoughts on iwi tavor or the FN bullpup?
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txyaloo
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In reply to BenderRodriguez • 9:02a, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
Yep, mke=zenith, POF is its own thing.

Sorely tempted by the Zenith 12" 5.56 pistols. Wish the new HK clones took AR magazines though.
There are some Special Weapons 53s that took AR mags. I believe the later revisions actually ran pretty well.

I have a 33K parts kit ready to put together minus the barrel. It's been on my build list for a few years. They run really well but are heavy compared to a similar sized AR.
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txyaloo
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In reply to Troy91 • 9:06a, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
Having spent 6 years in the USMC infantry and security forces, I have been privileged to shoot a lot of weapons from different countries.

My favorite, by far, is the MP5. We used it for house clearing and ship assault. It is an amazing weapon with very little recoil when properly slung and shouldered.

That weapon will chew through a magazine in a heartbeat without leaving centermass, bruising your shoulder or slicing up your trigger finger.

Bender, you have now made me want to spend more money. Again. I have to stop reading your posts.

I now have a missing item from my personal armory.
You won't regret the purchase until you start buying more roller locked guns to fill out a collection. It's an addiction!

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Troy91
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9:09a, 5/8/16
AG
AGGGHHH.

Y'all are killing my budget.
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swrdply400mrelay
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2:16p, 5/8/16
AG

I'm afraid to ask, but what's the cheapest price you guys have seen for an MP5 clone?

This thread is making me want one like crazy.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to bearamedic99 • 2:22p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
Dammit Bender, I don't have the budget but feel lacking. I now crave the AR pistol and that mp5 clone.

ps- any thoughts on iwi tavor or the FN bullpup?


I have the Tavor (for now). Considering selling it for another HK clone.



Pros: reliable, takes AR magazines, compact.

Cons: heavier than a comparable AR, trigger is long and heavy, and you pretty much have to use an optic.

I like the gun quite a bit, but prefer ARs and HK set ups. I like it enough to change my mind about twice a day on whether I want to sell it or not. Bullpups are fun, interesting guns. I've just spent more time and am more comfortable with a more traditional set up....but something holds me back a bit when I think of getting rid of it because it is a good gun.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to swrdply400mrelay • 2:27p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:

I'm afraid to ask, but what's the cheapest price you guys have seen for an MP5 clone?

This thread is making me want one like crazy.


~$1500 range for zeniths and pofs. Since they're comparable, I'd go zenith. When I bought POF was about $200+ cheaper.

Looks like the new HK imports will be ~$2500 and the lack of a paddle annoys me. I know purists will prefer HK regardless, but...meh.

Might keep an eye on the classifieds at a place like hkpro, could get a used one cheaper.

And if you want to try before you buy, mine is always available to be shot. I live in Bell county but travel quite a bit so if anyone ever wants to shoot something I own let me know and next time I'm in your area or you're in mine you're welcome to try anything I own.
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TheEyeGuy
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In reply to swrdply400mrelay • 2:29p, 5/8/16
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AG
I think the POF ones are the cheapest. Zeniths run about $1500 and up... Right now at least. They are running some extra discounts. Usually they are around $1600 and up, depending on the model. If we have a few people that want to do them, I can do a group buy. I've been mulling pulling them in regardless. If about 10 people want to get them, it would be worth it for me to knock about $100 off each gun.

We'd have to get them rolling quick but if we had at least ten people commit, I can get the Z5K down to about $1450. Most of the time, MAP on them is $1674
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to Troy91 • 2:30p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
AGGGHHH.

Y'all are killing my budget.


Pretend you're the government for a minute and throw fiscal discipline out the window.

Here's the general look ill be going for after the stamp: mp5k-pdw...



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Troy91
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3:03p, 5/8/16
AG
LOL. Unfortunately, my secretary of the treasury does not like defense spending. AT ALL.
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TwoMarksHand
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In reply to Troy91 • 4:03p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
LOL. Unfortunately, my secretary of the treasury does not like defense spending. AT ALL.


Appoint a republican next time. Lol
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Troy91
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4:07p, 5/8/16
AG
She is a republican. She supports tax breaks for Macy's, Kohl's, and James Avery.

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txyaloo
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In reply to BenderRodriguez • 4:22p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
quote:
AGGGHHH.

Y'all are killing my budget.


Pretend you're the government for a minute and throw fiscal discipline out the window.

Here's the general look ill be going for after the stamp: mp5k-pdw...



I would skip the Choate stock. They're pretty terrible. Mine is sitting in my parts bin.

Since you have an RS, you can run an A3, but I think the best option for a folder on the 9X guns is a B&T. They're well worth the extra few hundred over a Choate.





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CW Griswold
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4:27p, 5/8/16
I want to get a 7.62 semi at some point. Any recommendations comparing AR-10, G3 or FAL clones? Or something else I haven't considered.
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TheEyeGuy
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4:30p, 5/8/16
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AG
Don't fOrget the m1a
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CW Griswold
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4:31p, 5/8/16
Can't believe I forgot the M1A when talking about 7.62.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to CW Griswold • 5:23p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
I want to get a 7.62 semi at some point. Any recommendations comparing AR-10, G3 or FAL clones? Or something else I haven't considered.


Oh, I'm going to ruffle some feathers on this one... I'll elaborate later more, but here it goes. There are some exceptions to every rule but in general how I'd rate them (haven't owned all, but have shot all 4)

Accuracy and Customizability: AR-10>G3>FAL/M1A

Reliability: G3>FAL/M1A/AR-10

Magazine reliability/availability: AR-10/G3>FAL/M1A

Ergonomics: AR-10>G3/FAL/M1A

If you want the best overall option, the parts available for the AR-10 make it the clear winner, even without adding in magazine availability and other advantages, not to mention familiarity if you're an AR-15 shooter.

Out of the old school options I far prefer the G3. Super easy to customize with a variety of stock and handguards options, the new models come with a top rail so they're easy to mount optics on, a randomly selected rack G3 will likely be more accurate than a random rack FAL or M1A. Magazines are cheaper, more available and very reliable, and the gun is just rugged. G3s do not have the same name brand recognition or sentiment attached to it in the US as the M1A. G3 has better sights than the FAL (M1A is on par), G3 is lighter and shorter, which is nice if you're going to carry it around or hog hunt with it.

My opinion. Others will be along to yell about anyone disparaging the M1A shortly.

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Mr. Dubi
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6:47p, 5/8/16
You pistol caliber carbine guys: what do you think about the CZ Scorpion Evo?
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TheEyeGuy
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In reply to Mr. Dubi • 6:52p, 5/8/16
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Great gun, especially for the price. I do have a couple in store if you happen to be down my way.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to Mr. Dubi • 8:52p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
You pistol caliber carbine guys: what do you think about the CZ Scorpion Evo?

They're good. I just had to have the MP5.

Been one of those "must have" guns since I was a kid.

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The Wonderer
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In reply to Mr. Dubi • 9:11p, 5/8/16
AG
quote:
You pistol caliber carbine guys: what do you think about the CZ Scorpion Evo?
Love mine, currently waiting on the stamp to SBR. It fires fairly well as a pistol when pushed against the sling. Not a lot of kick from the 9mm.

Highly recommended if wanting to SBR. If not wanting to SBR, hold out for the carbine to come out because I, personally, don't think it's overly great if it can't be shouldered.
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Mr. Dubi
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9:51p, 5/8/16
Thanks for the answers. I'm not really in the market, but staring down the barrel of 41f makes me want one, especially since the newer ones have proper threads on them.
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