*******Official Cowboys Offseason 2023*******

122,227 Views | 1943 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by Vince Blake
jr15aggie
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Southlake said:

Bijan = Zeke for a first round pick. Or any RB in the first round. Get the best OG available. Look what happened last time the cowboys took a G in the first round…by the end of the season, when the O line injuries pile up, it will be nice to have depth on the line.

I 100% get it, but there is arguably only 1 guard in this draft that is capable of starting on this team next year. And considering the lack of top end talent in this draft, it's very possible he's already gone before 26.

If that happens and we make a reach pick for the next best guard, it's likely we start the season with Tyron and Tyler and our 1st round pick is on the bench! In that scenario, I'll take one of the bad ass running backs all day long.


And 2nd of all, Zeke was an awesome pick for us with regards to immediate results... if we had any kind of defense his rookie year, we were in the NFC Championship and probably the Super Bowl. I would love to see Dak lead this offense with capable WRs and at the same time pairing Bijan or Gibbs with Pollard. Sign me up!
Macarthur
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I think the TCU kid is a day one starter, but I agree with your overall point.
jr15aggie
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Follow up to my own post above... I'm really curious what the Cowboys are thinking with regards to their O-line going into the draft. Is Tyler their LT and Tyron the back-up swing tackle or do they see Tyron as a starter still?

I know they like what they have in Farniok and Lindstrom as back-up G & C, but right now we are still exposed here considering Tyron's health concerns if he has to start.

In a perfect world, the best scenario for the o-line might indeed be let Tyron be the swing tackle and let Tyler start at LT. Pair him with that 1st round G from Florida and let them go beast mode in the running game. That would probably give us a top 5 o-line with really solid back-ups.
jr15aggie
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Macarthur said:

I think the TCU kid is a day one starter, but I agree with your overall point.

He might be, some would say yes and others no. With what we've already done, an awesome draft for us would be getting another offensive weapon with our 1st round pick (WR, TE, RB) and getting this guy in the 2nd.
Ag Natural
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I'm fundamentally against using a 1st round pick on a RB in this day and age. Plus I think there are going to be really good options in later rounds. I also don't think we'll pick a WR early this year. There's already a lot of capital tied up in that position. OL or TE are the only logical offensive choices in round one.

McCarthy wants to run the ball. But he also emphasized that this team is a defense-first squad. It wouldn't shock me if they just went best defender available at 26.
Macarthur
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Ag Natural said:

I'm fundamentally against using a 1st round pick on a RB in this day and age. Plus I think there are going to be really good options in later rounds. I also don't think we'll pick a WR early this year. There's already a lot of capital tied up in that position. OL or TE are the only logical offensive choices in round one.

McCarthy wants to run the ball. But he also emphasized that this team is a defense-first squad. It wouldn't shock me if they just went best defender available at 26.

Here's the thing though that you can't forget. First round picks give you that 5th year option. I think we are really jaded because we picked Zeke so high and then made the mistake of giving him the huge 2nd contract early.

If a RB is truly a difference maker, like I think Robinson is, he is an incredible bargain at 26, plus you get the extra year 5, if you want. Then you have to be smart and not give that huge 2nd contract.
jr15aggie
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I agree, I think WR is out for round 1 now. The WR class isn't great and breaking into the top 3 would be tough. Not to mention, most of the guys in this draft class are smaller and we, sorta, already got one of those (Turpin)!

The pick very well could be defense. CB is sorta risky because he'd have a hard time breaking into the starting lineup, but you can never have enough CBs. DT a real possibility depending on how they grade them.


What's great about the offseason so far is that it's made March really fun, and the draft is wide open because of it. Good stuff!
jr15aggie
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Agreed Mac... pretty sure the Cowboys are smart enough and have enough leverage after the Zeke deal went bad to tell a future star RB and his agent "he plays for Dallas and he plays out the rookie contract he signed or he isn't playing anywhere!"

It's also worth pointing out, the 5th round option and franchise tags are not that expensive for RBs (compared to other positions). Sucks a little for the RB, but we could definitely get more than our use out of a 1st round RB for 6-7 years without ever having to sign him to a 2nd deal!
Vinny
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Quote:

In a perfect world, the best scenario for the o-line might indeed be let Tyron be the swing tackle and let Tyler start at LT. Pair him with that 1st round G from Florida and let them go beast mode in the running game. That would probably give us a top 5 o-line with really solid back-ups.
Can you imagine if we took the Florida G in round 1 and Jahmyr Gibbs fell to us in round 2? That could be nasty.
Ag Natural
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Macarthur said:

Ag Natural said:

I'm fundamentally against using a 1st round pick on a RB in this day and age. Plus I think there are going to be really good options in later rounds. I also don't think we'll pick a WR early this year. There's already a lot of capital tied up in that position. OL or TE are the only logical offensive choices in round one.

McCarthy wants to run the ball. But he also emphasized that this team is a defense-first squad. It wouldn't shock me if they just went best defender available at 26.

Here's the thing though that you can't forget. First round picks give you that 5th year option. I think we are really jaded because we picked Zeke so high and then made the mistake of giving him the huge 2nd contract early.

If a RB is truly a difference maker, like I think Robinson is, he is an incredible bargain at 26, plus you get the extra year 5, if you want. Then you have to be smart and not give that huge 2nd contract.
Honestly, I'm just really impressed with several of the RB options. I guess I'm in the minority in that I don't think Bijan is so far above all the guys that will be available later.
Macarthur
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I think there are good RBs, too, so I wouldn't have an issue w waiting.

With Bijan, though, I see him as the most complete RB since Barkley. He's got power and speed. He's got amazing balance and shiftiness. He's also a capable blocker and is great in the passing game.
Txhuntr
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The other problem with taking a rb in the 1st round besides them going to the negotiating table after 3-4 years is you lose the pick after year 5. There isn't a single rb in the league worth a 2nd contract. Any other position, if you hit it, you can have that player for at least 3 contracts while being salary cap responsible
Macarthur
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Txhuntr said:

The other problem with taking a rb in the 1st round besides them going to the negotiating table after 3-4 years is you lose the pick after year 5. There isn't a single rb in the league worth a 2nd contract. Any other position, if you hit it, you can have that player for at least 3 contracts while being salary cap responsible

First, we need to distinguish between first round picks because not all are the same. A top 5 pick at RB is not the same as pick 26.

And I see the five year option as a positive, as it relates to RBs. You have the OPTION of taking that 5th year if he has been healthy and productive. If he hasn't, you cut your losses.
jr15aggie
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I sorta agree Ag... I'm not as high on Bijan as some of the scouts I Iisten to. Some of them say he's the best RB prospect in 20 years (above Saquan and Zeke) but I just can't put him in that category.

It's no secret I like Gibbs more as an offensive weapon, but he's not as big/good in pass protection as Bijan. But if any team is interested in drafting a 21 year old Alvin Kamara he's the guy.




Pretty sure I've said this before but I'll say it again: If Bijan is off the board at 26 and we pass on Gibbs, several people here will feel good about that... now tell me, how quickly will that mood change when Philly grabs him at pick 31? I know I'm personally going to throw up if it goes down like that!!!
Txhuntr
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I agree the 5 year option is always a positive if you have a healthy, productive player. But it's that 6th year where you have to let a rb walk because no one in the league is worth the contract (the only mis-step the cowboys have made this season is franchising pollard). Is a 1st round pick worth it for such a short lifespan? A guard can get you 15-18 years and make almost any rb productive for a few years
Macarthur
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Txhuntr said:

I agree the 5 year option is always a positive if you have a healthy, productive player. But it's that 6th year where you have to let a rb walk because no one in the league is worth the contract (the only mis-step the cowboys have made this season is franchising pollard). Is a 1st round pick worth it for such a short lifespan? A guard can get you 15-18 years and make almost any rb productive for a few years


I think saying 'almost any RB can be productive' is a bit of a stretch. Yes, you can find productive RBs all over the draft board, but you will not find a Bijan Robinson in the 4th or 5th round.

A first rounder, especially the back half of the first round, should be an impact player, you hope. And I think it's a bit of a stretch to say a G can get your 15+ years....

As for Pollard, the franchise tag does give you some exclusive negotiating rights for a period of time so I would not be surprised if they work out a deal that might lower that cap number.
jr15aggie
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Just as an example, because I've compared Gibbs to Kamara...

Kamara was CRAZY productive his first 4 years. Rushing average of 6.1, 4.6, 4.7, and 5.0 during that time. His total rushing & receiving yards those years were 1,554...1,592... 1,330...1,688.

His average per rush has declined in years 5 & 6 (worth noting these are the post Brees years) to 3.7 and 4.0 yards per carry. Overall production remains solid, but is coming down to earth at 1,337 and 1,387 total yards.



My take-aways which is the conundrum on what to do with RBs:
  • You 100% draft Kamara and those numbers in the 1st round every year if you can. Position doesn't matter, any team would take that kind of production if they are looking for more juice on offense!
  • The Saints didn't have to use a 1st rounder on Kamara, he was a 3rd round pick.
  • Saints never should have signed him to a 5 year deal in '21... those first 4 years were the best they were ever going to get out of him. They should have tagged him in '21 and then again in '22 if they really wanted him back.
Agristotle
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need a TE now
Casual Cynic
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Definitely need a TE. You can always find quality running backs in later rounds.
Grapesoda2525
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Don't know much about cooks. Would you guys say he's comparable to AJ brown from the eagles?
LincolnBorglum79
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Cooks is 5'10" tall, 183 lbs. Kyler size. He made the playoffs in 2018 but his other 8 seasons with NO, NE, LAR and Hou were non playoff years.

Brown is 6'1", 226 lbs. 35 TDS in 4 years or 9 per year. Cooks has 49 TDS in 9 years or 5 per season.
TyHolden
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LincolnBorglum79 said:

Cooks is 5'10" tall, 183 lbs. Kyler size. He made the playoffs in 2018 but his other 8 seasons with NO, NE, LAR and Hou were non playoff years.

Brown is 6'1", 226 lbs. 35 TDS in 4 years or 9 per year. Cooks has 49 TDS in 9 years or 5 per season.
yeah, i'm not a mathematician but i'd say they are not comparable....just in case



Southlake
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jr15aggie said:

Southlake said:

Bijan = Zeke for a first round pick. Or any RB in the first round. Get the best OG available. Look what happened last time the cowboys took a G in the first round…by the end of the season, when the O line injuries pile up, it will be nice to have depth on the line.

I 100% get it, but there is arguably only 1 guard in this draft that is capable of starting on this team next year. And considering the lack of top end talent in this draft, it's very possible he's already gone before 26.

If that happens and we make a reach pick for the next best guard, it's likely we start the season with Tyron and Tyler and our 1st round pick is on the bench! In that scenario, I'll take one of the bad ass running
How long do you really think Tyron is going to stay healthy? He's another year older.

Personally, I bet he doesn't make it through pre season workouts.

If you don't get a G, get a T.
Big_Time_Timmy_Jim
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What's status of T Steele? I'd leave Tyler smith at LT and use 77 as the swing tackle or to ease T Steele back in slowly. Draft or sign an interior G if we don't feel good about what we have in the wings.

Vince Blake
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Just signed depth on the o-line

gigem1223
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Maybe a sneaky good signing. PFF had Edoga rated at 77.8 last season, albeit only 55 snaps.
Tksymm7
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Big_Time_Timmy_Jim said:

What's status of T Steele? I'd leave Tyler smith at LT and use 77 as the swing tackle or to ease T Steele back in slowly. Draft or sign an interior G if we don't feel good about what we have in the wings.


I agree. If there's not a guard there at 26 you like or someone that will be an instant impact, then take a tackle and move them inside. Just try to find impact players.

Terrence Steele tore is ACL and MCL in December (week 14), and even though they expect him back for training camp, my guess is that they will take it very easy with him.
jr15aggie
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Southlake said:

jr15aggie said:

Southlake said:

Bijan = Zeke for a first round pick. Or any RB in the first round. Get the best OG available. Look what happened last time the cowboys took a G in the first round…by the end of the season, when the O line injuries pile up, it will be nice to have depth on the line.

I 100% get it, but there is arguably only 1 guard in this draft that is capable of starting on this team next year. And considering the lack of top end talent in this draft, it's very possible he's already gone before 26.

If that happens and we make a reach pick for the next best guard, it's likely we start the season with Tyron and Tyler and our 1st round pick is on the bench! In that scenario, I'll take one of the bad ass running
How long do you really think Tyron is going to stay healthy? He's another year older.

Personally, I bet he doesn't make it through pre season workouts.

If you don't get a G, get a T.

Just to be clear, I'm with you. I don't think you go into the season thinking Tyron Smith is an all season starter. My comment was with regards to the 1st rounder... doesn't matter how good your team is, you always need to hit with that pick. If we reach for a guard (or tackle) and miss, then Tyron and Tyler are going to be clearly the best option and we are back to crossing our fingers he can stay healthy (spoiler alert, he won't).

So again, O-line with our #1 is fine if it's guy that can step in and start day 1. If not, give me a RB or a TE that can. But either way we have to cover ourselves at that spot pre-draft... and looking at the tweet above, it looks like we are trying to do just that.
Vince Blake
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jr15aggie
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Wow... talk about covering all your gaps pre-draft. I did NOT expect them to get a Vet RB. There is good enough plug and play RB talent all over this draft, but I guess there is always the unknown of when Pollard will be available, so this is a smart move I suppose.



Here's a question for the Cowboy fans out there, you think the Cowboys would consider pulling the franchise tag off Pollard (to negotiate a more team friendly deal)? Because when I look around at the NFL right now, NOBODY is paying RBs. That $10 mil franchise tag is way more than anybody else is getting right now. Kind of surprised Pollard hasn't signed it already. Ask Dalton Shcultz about his tag money last year vs. the 1 year / 9 mil Houston just gave him.
Macarthur
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I think if you could get pollard for something like 3 for 15, I would do that. I'm not sure Pollard would sign up for that, but if you made a guarantee of the 15 for 3 years, he might.


Woods Ag
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The cowboys better not draft a RB with their 1st again... my goodness it was a bad call to draft Zeke. He was a cancer from Go. it was an even worse call to resign him, and now we're finally off him - please don't put us back in that situation with that much money tied up in RBs that teams regularly find in the late rounds.

And for goodness sakes please dont re-up Dak. He's terrible, always been terrible... He can manage a game that is dominated by a running the football. I am hopeful that with Kellen Moore finally gone, McCarthy will run the damn ball.

Offensive Line should be ok this year. No early pick on OL

Here's who I hope they're targeting in the 1st round.
TE - If you can get Michael Mayers or Dalton Kincaid would help Dak out.
DL - Lukas Van Ness
Edge/LB - Nolan Smith - Him and Parsons paired together would be really nasty in how you could move them around and line them up on and off the line, but his pro day may have shot him up the board too high for us to have a shot.
Interior DL - Carter if for some crazy reason he falls, but he wont. I don't know about the 2 Clemson guys...
DB - With Stephon Gilmore we're pretty set in the back. I love the 3 safeties with Dono playing up and Trevon/Gilmore outside. But we could upgrade with Witherspoon (may have trended too high already), Kelee Ringo may be a good shot to develop, and my favorite pick for that slot CB/LB/Safety roll is of course Antonio Johnson.
Tksymm7
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I think the market needs to be reset for RB's. RB's need to understand their position and its value, and come to terms with it. The salary cap is certainly going up, but there isn't a single RB that is worth more than $10 million per year. To take the 3x15 example above, Pollard should recognize his positional value and sign that deal because he's likely not going to get more than that on an open market. The chances of him playing on the tag this year and then signing a 3x15 type of deal next year feels like snowballs chance in hell.
Big_Time_Timmy_Jim
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They seem to be checking the boxes of need with smart, high floor players. Would love to see an ILB Bobby Wagner type and a run stuffing veteran DT or two before the draft. Think we still have the same draft "big board" but we don't have to rely on rookies to have monster impacts in Year 1.

As much as I love TP20, he's had one really good year, which unfortunately ended with an injury. If he is not an every down back, how do you give that a massive contract? What is going rate for 'change of pace' back? He better sign that tag pretty quick.


Macarthur
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Agree. And the thing w Pollard is the only reason I would do that deal is that he is a guy that has very low usage even dating back to college. I think he's still got 3 good years in him.
 
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