I was thinking more Adam Thielen.
*******Official Cowboys Offseason 2023*******
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Last: 1 yr ago by Vince Blake
Ok, so someone tell me why this guy wasn't drafted. He's doing this to SEC defense.
PooDoo said:
A real Ed McCaffrey type
Media and message boards love to hold their annual debates about minority coaching hires in the NFL... And then some white dude shows up at a skill position and the only players you are allowed to compare them with are other white dudes!
It's disgusting!!!!!! .................... so I agree with Mac, he reminds me of Adam Thieland!
Macarthur said:
Ok, so someone tell me why this guy wasn't drafted. He's doing this to SEC defense.
On the NFL.com prospect write up they had him as possibly a FB/TE tweener. Could potentially be a useful weapon if they have a plan for him. Hope he makes it to the preseason games so we can see him in action.
IMO, the Cowboy's main problem in this draft was they were unwilling/able to adjust out of their "sit still and let the board fall to you" mentality once it became clear most of the league was moving up & down to get their guys.
A perfect hypothetical of what the Cowboys could have done as soon as they lost Kincaid:
Let KC come up and take Mazi. Take your TE #2 (probably LaPorta) at 31. Now we sit still in round 2 and get BPA (let's guess and say Torrence). Now in round 3 we use our extra ammo from the trade and move up to grab Drew Sanders!
In that scenario you just got 3 players you really like at need positions. Instead, what we ended up with was 1 guy we really liked (Mazi) and a TE and LB we were just OK with.
A perfect hypothetical of what the Cowboys could have done as soon as they lost Kincaid:
Let KC come up and take Mazi. Take your TE #2 (probably LaPorta) at 31. Now we sit still in round 2 and get BPA (let's guess and say Torrence). Now in round 3 we use our extra ammo from the trade and move up to grab Drew Sanders!
In that scenario you just got 3 players you really like at need positions. Instead, what we ended up with was 1 guy we really liked (Mazi) and a TE and LB we were just OK with.
jr15aggie said:
IMO, the Cowboy's main problem in this draft was they were unwilling/able to adjust out of their "sit still and let the board fall to you" mentality once it became clear most of the league was moving up & down to get their guys.
A perfect hypothetical of what the Cowboys could have done as soon as they lost Kincaid:
Let KC come up and take Mazi. Take your TE #2 (probably LaPorta) at 31. Now we sit still in round 2 and get BPA (let's guess and say Torrence). Now in round 3 we use our extra ammo from the trade and move up to grab Drew Sanders!
In that scenario you just got 3 players you really like at need positions. Instead, what we ended up with was 1 guy we really liked (Mazi) and a TE and LB we were just OK with.
Yeah, I mean only time will tell. I think the Cowboys have earned the benefit of the doubt when come to drafts lately.
I will say the MOST glaring hole on this team was clearly a run stuffing 1. They got the best one in this years draft. Who knows how TE turns out, but I will remind everyone that David Moore said before the draft ever started that the Cowboys TE board did not look like what was the conventionally held wisdom. And he was adamant that the Cowboy would NOT have drafted Kincaid even if he were there at 26. I do think they really liked LaPorta, but I think M. Smith is a better player than LaPorta at a position of greater need.
One thing I heard on Torrence, since you mentioned him, is some teams felt like he had REALLY heavy feet even for a G.
And I want to get on my soap box a bit about everyone being on their knees two years in a row for Philly. I do give them credit for being a GOOD front office the last couple of years, but I feel like the praise is more than a bit overblown.
2022
Jordan Davis - For a guy that was going to reinvent the DT position, he played in 13 games and had a grand total 18 tackles. 8 solo and ZERO sacks or pressures.
Cam Jurgens - 2nd rounder which is a premium pick. Dude played 17 snaps. I know he didn't HAVE to play, but that's a premium pick for a guy that may not even be slated to start this year.
Nakobe Dean - First, there was a reason everybody let this guy slide. He had a total of 13 tackles - 9 solo and One TFL. Didn't exactly light the world on fire.
2023
Jalen Carter - Can we let the guy play a down first...There were numerous teams that took this guy COMPLETELY OFF their board. Didn't want anything to do with him. Guy has tons of talent and will be hell to deal with, but there are major red flags. It's rare for the consensus #1 football player to fall to #9 when there were several teams before Philly that need help at DT.
Nolan Smith - Again, a huge talent that slipped because of major red flags. Apparently, the Georgia coaching staff had very little good to say about him during the draft process.
Kelee Ringo - Again, they get lauded for taking a player that the talking heads felt was a big faller, buy why was he falling. He's a bit of a tweener, but does have great ball skills. He also has some injury history.
Now, all of these guys may end up being great, but it seems like they are just getting credit for taking guys that are the highest rated on the talking heads boards and they just so happen to be from one school, which is weird. But the 2022 draft, which they were showered praise, has been incredibly meh, up to this point.
Okay, rant over.
Here's a good clip on the TE.
I think he's going to be solid, at worst. I think he's got upside in the passing game because he's a decent athlete and he was very underutilized at Mich in the passing game.
I think he's going to be solid, at worst. I think he's got upside in the passing game because he's a decent athlete and he was very underutilized at Mich in the passing game.
To further some of the above discussion I'll use the Mazi Smith scenario. If the Cowboys moved back to 31, letting KC take Smith and then using 31 to draft LaPorta; how much better does this move really make us? Even if Mazi Smith is only a solid player and LaPorta is great, he would likely still make more of an impact on this team than LaPorta because of the position he plays and how bad we have been at that position in recent years.
I just don't see the positional value in a TE high in the draft, much like RB. They'd have to be generational talents for me to consider them. On top of that Mazi Smith actually does have a really high ceiling because of his athleticism, so I think it was a pretty easy decision for them not to trade back.
I just don't see the positional value in a TE high in the draft, much like RB. They'd have to be generational talents for me to consider them. On top of that Mazi Smith actually does have a really high ceiling because of his athleticism, so I think it was a pretty easy decision for them not to trade back.
Good post Mac.
The Cowboys do 100% get the benefit of the doubt, which is why I haven't gone rage mode. I didn't personally like their draft and I let that be known, but I'm gonna wait and see.
And I also very much agree with the Philly take. They have been really good about drafting big names lately, but those names haven't exactly panned out.
I'll add my own theory / take on what Philly is doing.... I hate drafting defensive players that are surrounded by other great players. I want the guy that the opposing offense pinpoints all week and that guy still blows up their gameplan. Philly taking all the Georgia players is not a recipe for success. To give a non-biased example... you don't draft Daeshon Hall in the 3rd round when he played opposite of Myles Garrett!!!
The Cowboys do 100% get the benefit of the doubt, which is why I haven't gone rage mode. I didn't personally like their draft and I let that be known, but I'm gonna wait and see.
And I also very much agree with the Philly take. They have been really good about drafting big names lately, but those names haven't exactly panned out.
I'll add my own theory / take on what Philly is doing.... I hate drafting defensive players that are surrounded by other great players. I want the guy that the opposing offense pinpoints all week and that guy still blows up their gameplan. Philly taking all the Georgia players is not a recipe for success. To give a non-biased example... you don't draft Daeshon Hall in the 3rd round when he played opposite of Myles Garrett!!!
Tksymm7 said:
To further some of the above discussion I'll use the Mazi Smith scenario. If the Cowboys moved back to 31, letting KC take Smith and then using 31 to draft LaPorta; how much better does this move really make us? Even if Mazi Smith is only a solid player and LaPorta is great, he would likely still make more of an impact on this team than LaPorta because of the position he plays and how bad we have been at that position in recent years.
I just don't see the positional value in a TE high in the draft, much like RB. They'd have to be generational talents for me to consider them. On top of that Mazi Smith actually does have a really high ceiling because of his athleticism, so I think it was a pretty easy decision for them not to trade back.
Completely agree. My post was a hypothetical showing the contrast between getting 3 picks you really like as opposed to just 1. But the 3 they got could be awesome so who knows.
But I'm all aboard the Mazi pick... he very well could be the 1 piece that makes this the #1 defense next year. The thought of rotating him with Hankins brings something to this team we've never had in the modern NFL defensive schemes.
After the Mazi Smith pick though I think your point about staying put and not moving up or down has some validity. I think the Cowboys did fine in the draft and absolutely deserve the benefit of the doubt, but there are times I wish they would get aggressive and go get a guy in the top three rounds instead of moving up in the fifth.
Tksymm7 said:
To further some of the above discussion I'll use the Mazi Smith scenario. If the Cowboys moved back to 31, letting KC take Smith and then using 31 to draft LaPorta; how much better does this move really make us? Even if Mazi Smith is only a solid player and LaPorta is great, he would likely still make more of an impact on this team than LaPorta because of the position he plays and how bad we have been at that position in recent years.
I just don't see the positional value in a TE high in the draft, much like RB. They'd have to be generational talents for me to consider them. On top of that Mazi Smith actually does have a really high ceiling because of his athleticism, so I think it was a pretty easy decision for them not to trade back.
To your point about positional value at TE, if you have a chance to grab Brock Bowers next year, that's a TE that should be incredible in the NFL.
jr15aggie said:Tksymm7 said:
To further some of the above discussion I'll use the Mazi Smith scenario. If the Cowboys moved back to 31, letting KC take Smith and then using 31 to draft LaPorta; how much better does this move really make us? Even if Mazi Smith is only a solid player and LaPorta is great, he would likely still make more of an impact on this team than LaPorta because of the position he plays and how bad we have been at that position in recent years.
I just don't see the positional value in a TE high in the draft, much like RB. They'd have to be generational talents for me to consider them. On top of that Mazi Smith actually does have a really high ceiling because of his athleticism, so I think it was a pretty easy decision for them not to trade back.
Completely agree. My post was a hypothetical showing the contrast between getting 3 picks you really like as opposed to just 1. But the 3 they got could be awesome so who knows.
But I'm all aboard the Mazi pick... he very well could be the 1 piece that makes this the #1 defense next year. The thought of rotating him with Hankins brings something to this team we've never had in the modern NFL defensive schemes.
Why do you claim to know who they really wanted? For all we know Mazi was their 10th best player in the whole draft. It goes without saying that it's a wait and see situation. Several posters on here hated the Parsons pick.
I feel like they landed the types of players they need to improve the team. Scott and Vaughn will be the steals of the draft.
And one more thing to add to that is I have full confidence in Dan Quinn and what he wants and the qualities he's looking for. If DQ is on board, then we should be excited.
yep, dude balled out in the biggest games and there's a ton of intangible value there. I think he takes a big leap in the pros where TEs matter a lot more. You don't score that high on the eval unless you're a player.Macarthur said:
Here's a good clip on the TE.
I think he's going to be solid, at worst. I think he's got upside in the passing game because he's a decent athlete and he was very underutilized at Mich in the passing game.
IT WAS ALL HYPOTHETICAL. I don't claim to know.Ag Natural said:jr15aggie said:Tksymm7 said:
To further some of the above discussion I'll use the Mazi Smith scenario. If the Cowboys moved back to 31, letting KC take Smith and then using 31 to draft LaPorta; how much better does this move really make us? Even if Mazi Smith is only a solid player and LaPorta is great, he would likely still make more of an impact on this team than LaPorta because of the position he plays and how bad we have been at that position in recent years.
I just don't see the positional value in a TE high in the draft, much like RB. They'd have to be generational talents for me to consider them. On top of that Mazi Smith actually does have a really high ceiling because of his athleticism, so I think it was a pretty easy decision for them not to trade back.
Completely agree. My post was a hypothetical showing the contrast between getting 3 picks you really like as opposed to just 1. But the 3 they got could be awesome so who knows.
But I'm all aboard the Mazi pick... he very well could be the 1 piece that makes this the #1 defense next year. The thought of rotating him with Hankins brings something to this team we've never had in the modern NFL defensive schemes.
Why do you claim to know who they really wanted? For all we know Mazi was their 10th best player in the whole draft. It goes without saying that it's a wait and see situation. Several posters on here hated the Parsons pick.
I feel like they landed the types of players they need to improve the team. Scott and Vaughn will be the steals of the draft.
One thing I do know for a fact is they wanted LaPorta over Schoon because the TE coach admitted on the live broadcast they were gut punched when LaPorta went so high in the 2nd.
Generally speaking, I was just asking the question, would sacrificing the Mazi pick been worth it to get us on track with the players we were really targeting on day 2.
If you listen to Bryan Broadus he words it a different way... he would say when you are drafting at back end of each round, you sorta have to draft a round early on the guys you really like. So the idea that I was floating was to lose Mazi and take LaPorta a round early... that would cross TE off the list and we could focus on BPA and/or trading up in Day 2 to get the most bang for our buck.
This would give me nightmares if I was an IOL in the NFC East
Michigan DT Mazi Smith doing a reactive plyo stairs test in 2.82 seconds 😯⏱
— PFF College (@PFF_College) August 10, 2022
Aidan Hutchinson, who’s 60lbs lighter, did it in 2.57 seconds.
(via @UMichFootball)pic.twitter.com/7b1fqvoKPF
Lol I missed this shirtless draft profile….
Mazi Smith maybe my new favorite player ever. This dude just said fuck it, I’m going shirtless on National TV with this body, and you all can just take it in. pic.twitter.com/uDCvwoHE5y
— Phil Parker Americas National Treasure (@kinnick519) April 28, 2023
Very interesting post by Sturm. Schoonmakers atheltic profile is significantly more impressive than the other guys. Look at that RAS.
But are they all the same guy? pic.twitter.com/iUEsm41PaG
— Bob Sturm (@SportsSturm) May 1, 2023
yeah, I don't get that tweet. It's not like Travis Kelces are just growing on trees. The objective was to replace Schultz and we did. If he's even 75% of the pass catcher Dalton was, great....cuz we already know he's a better blocker
4.63 not bad for a TE. Sometimes it did look like Schultz was running in quicksand
zgolfz85 said:
yeah, I don't get that tweet. It's not like Travis Kelces are just growing on trees. The objective was to replace Schultz and we did. If he's even 75% of the pass catcher Dalton was, great....cuz we already know he's a better blocker
I think maybe you missed Sturm's sarcasim in his post. He's a fan of Schoonmaker.
The 3 cone and split are good, too.98Ag99Grad said:
4.63 not bad for a TE. Sometimes it did look like Schultz was running in quicksand
That RAS is outstanding for a TE. Of the 1105 TEs in that database, he's 16th which is pretty amazing.
Not sure if this was posted. Interesting clip at the war room debating between Mazi and Matthew Bergeron.
For clarity, it wasn't Mazi Smith vs. Steve Avila.
— Patrik [No C] Walker (@VoiceOfTheStar) May 1, 2023
Mazi Smith vs. Matthew Bergeron was the debate in the #Cowboys war room. Falcons then traded up for Bergeron. https://t.co/elCC0AlmbC
Really interesting how the board fell... 2 names (Mazi and Bergeron) that none of us really thought were considerations in round 1.
Lots of respect for McClay there and you better be confident in that role... all eyes looking at him for the final word.
What really stood out to me was the comment about how they had capitalized on similar o-line talent in years past... but Mazi was the first guy (in forever) on the D-line that was not only available to them, but rated as highly as he was.
Lots of respect for McClay there and you better be confident in that role... all eyes looking at him for the final word.
What really stood out to me was the comment about how they had capitalized on similar o-line talent in years past... but Mazi was the first guy (in forever) on the D-line that was not only available to them, but rated as highly as he was.
Macarthur said:zgolfz85 said:
yeah, I don't get that tweet. It's not like Travis Kelces are just growing on trees. The objective was to replace Schultz and we did. If he's even 75% of the pass catcher Dalton was, great....cuz we already know he's a better blocker
I think maybe you missed Sturm's sarcasim in his post. He's a fan of Schoonmaker.
Ah, yes, yes I did
DTP02 said:Zachary Klement said:Burkhead is 5 inches taller than Vaughn. Terrible pick.investorAg83 said:
Deuce = Rex Burkhead 2.0. Like it.
At some point your lack of height starts to work for you. I'm not sure it isn't better to be a 5'5" RB than a 5'8" RB. You're still really small at 5'8", but at 5'5" it's easier to hide or slip under tackles and your weight is more compact.
It worked great in Madden!
At the end of the day, did the cowboys get better? Did they get better in their division? Seems Philly and NY did very well in the draft. No doubt Philly did the best. But, who knows until we see them play.
I admit, I was a little surprised not to see the cowboys be a little more proactive and aggressive in making a move.
So, at this point, relative to the other teams in the division I'd say we stayed about where we were. Might have dropped a bit in comparison to Philly and NY, might have got a bit better than the Redskins.
I guess we'll see. Still have the FA market to roll with.
PS Not including pre-draft acquisitions here. Draft only.
I admit, I was a little surprised not to see the cowboys be a little more proactive and aggressive in making a move.
So, at this point, relative to the other teams in the division I'd say we stayed about where we were. Might have dropped a bit in comparison to Philly and NY, might have got a bit better than the Redskins.
I guess we'll see. Still have the FA market to roll with.
PS Not including pre-draft acquisitions here. Draft only.
I don't know if we slid up or down in the conference. The giants are getting better and I really liked their draft as well as the Eagles.
What I do know is this conference is stout up the middle and then we've had the cowboys getting their ****s pushed in up the middle for years and years. We finally have a dude that can be point of the spear, put his foot int he ground and not get pushed back. That's going to do wonders for LVE to be free to go make plays that aren't 8 yards past hte LOS.
What I do know is this conference is stout up the middle and then we've had the cowboys getting their ****s pushed in up the middle for years and years. We finally have a dude that can be point of the spear, put his foot int he ground and not get pushed back. That's going to do wonders for LVE to be free to go make plays that aren't 8 yards past hte LOS.
The FO continues to say they consider the acquisitions of Hankins, Gilmore and Cooks as essentially part of this draft since 2023 picks were used to make all those trades.
The other major under estimation aspect of growing or shrinking year to year is the development of your 1st, 2nd and 3 year guys. If you look at years where the Cowboys "surprised" everyone, its usually based on players making a leap and becoming real impact guys. I think there are a couple of candidates on the roster that have the potential to do just that.
The other major under estimation aspect of growing or shrinking year to year is the development of your 1st, 2nd and 3 year guys. If you look at years where the Cowboys "surprised" everyone, its usually based on players making a leap and becoming real impact guys. I think there are a couple of candidates on the roster that have the potential to do just that.
Agree completely. Many wrote off Tolbert but I don't think the cowboys have. Another example is Farniok. He will be in his 3rd year and there were whispers of him making a push last year on the OL.
Oh man... when you start reaching for trades made prior to the draft and late round players from previous drafts making improvements to factor into this years DRAFT grade it's not a good sign.
Woods Ag said:
Oh man... when you start reaching for trades made prior to the draft and late round players from previous drafts making improvements to factor into this years DRAFT grade it's not a good sign.
Hold on....trading a 5th for Stephon Gilmore and Cooks, that's not insignificant. I mean considering the level of play you will get from those guys versus the two 5th rounders you pick this year is enormous.
You may be right about Tolbert, but he was a 3rd rounder which is considered a premium pick.
I have no idea what they are going to get from Tolbert, but I absolutely believe that the Cowboys still think he can be something. Tolbert and Cooks are without a doubt the reason the Cowboys didn't draft a WR until the end of the draft.
I don't disagree that it was a good move. I'm just joking about counting them and previous draft picks towards the success of this years draft. Just busting your balls.
Now, Cooks I don't have any long term hopes for. If he's all that talented why is every team happy to move off of him. Sounds like a cancer to me and we just got rid of 1 cancer in EE, I don't want a replacement.
Now, Cooks I don't have any long term hopes for. If he's all that talented why is every team happy to move off of him. Sounds like a cancer to me and we just got rid of 1 cancer in EE, I don't want a replacement.
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