*******Official Cowboys Offseason 2023*******

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jr15aggie
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In reply to Woods Ag • 9:53a, 3/23/23
AG
Woods Ag said:
You're right.. Especially Allen has some "wtf" in his system too... but man I've seen him carry his team too. I never see Dak carrying his team. He can light it up when its over tho.

You apparently haven't been watching very closely over his career then.

You only have to go back 1 game to see he put up a 5 TD game on the road in the playoffs.


The truth of the matter is very simple... every good game he has you will forget or find some way to dismiss it (we played a bad team, etc). Every win will be despite Dak and every loss will be because of Dak.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to Macarthur • 9:53a, 3/23/23
AG
Macarthur said:
Woods Ag said:
The problem with Jackson is you have to build your whole team around him. He's not my cup of tea either, but I trust him more than I trust Dak when I need a QB to go win me a game. Or at the very least - don't lose it.

Not me.

Regular Season
Dak Prescott - 166 TDs 65 INTs Rating 97.8
Lamar Jackson - 101 TDs 38 INTs Rating 96.7

Playoffs
Dak - 11 TDs 5 INTs Rating 92.3
Lamar - 3 TDs 5 INTs Rating 68.3

I don't think most people realize that Dak hasn't been bad in the playoffs.


Outside of Lamar's one MVP year, he's been pretty slightly above average.


Lamar has been downright terrible in his playoff appearances. I agree iwould not take him over Dak.
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Woods Ag
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In reply to jr15aggie • 9:55a, 3/23/23
AG
He did, he had his greatest game ever against TB... That team was terrible - didn't deserve to be in the playoffs bad, but played in the worst division in recent history.

I remember bc I lost money betting against him. His fall apart moment came the next game.

Look, the dude is Kirk Cousins. I wouldn't be satisfied if my QB was Kirk Cousins, either.
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Macarthur
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9:56a, 3/23/23
Let's also not forget that Dallas' WR corp rated dead last in the league last year at separation rate. Dead last. In short, Dak had to throw into smaller windows than any QB in the league. That combined w the thumb is why I think the INT numbers jumped way up.
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Macarthur
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9:57a, 3/23/23
In other words, I only look at things that support my idea of who a player is and do not look at real stats and compare to other players.
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DannyDuberstein
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9:59a, 3/23/23
AG
I think at this point in his career Dak is a 10-15 type guy. That's where his QBR puts him the past few years and just eyeball test-wise where he looks to me. With the right cast, you can win with him as they've shown, but the stars are going to need to align to get to a championship level team with him. I think it's doable but he can't carry anything; he's gonna need studs all around. There's plenty better but more that are worse.
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Woods Ag
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In reply to Macarthur • 10:00a, 3/23/23
AG
I watch all the cowboy games... **** me man, I haven't even looked up any stats. No idea where he finished last year in Yard or TDs... I know INTs were high last year.

I am telling you what I see when I watch him play the games out in real time. This guy can put up stats when the game is over. He has moments when it looks good (edit: REALLY GOOD). But then he has these moments when you can't explain wtf he is doing when the game matters the most.

Another unpopular take - Ryan Tannehill does the same thing. It makes me sick to my stomach because I want both of them to win more than anything else.
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Macarthur
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 10:05a, 3/23/23
DannyDuberstein said:
I think at this point in his career Dak is a 10-15 type guy. That's where his QBR puts him the past few years and just eyeball test-wise where he looks to me. With the right cast, you can win with him as they've shown, but the stars are going to need to align to get to a championship level team with him. I think it's doable but he can't carry anything; he's gonna need studs all around. There's plenty better but more that are worse.

I am curious who you have ahead of Dak. I wouldn't die on any hill if someone thinks he's around 10, but I think him being at 15 is kinda crazy.
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Agristotle
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10:10a, 3/23/23
AG
FWIW I think Cowherd and orlovsky both have Dak at 11
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Woods Ag
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In reply to Agristotle • 10:29a, 3/23/23
AG
1 Patrick Mahomes
2 Joe Burrow
3 Justin Herbert
4 Josh Allen
5 Jalen Hurts
6 Lamar Jackson
7 Tom Brady
8 Aaron Rodgers
9 Matthew Stafford
10 Trevor Lawerence
11 Tua Tagovailoa
12 Deshaun Watson

I'd have him in the 13-16 range.

He's in this group: Carr, Dak, Cousins, Tannehill they're all interchangeable.

Kyler - could be higher but his leadership/personality/whatever makes him a no-fly-zone
Justin Fields & Brock Purdy could develop into better. Especially with Shanahan as Purdy's coach.
Daniel Jones - with his HC he may eventually be ahead of Dak
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jr15aggie
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In reply to Woods Ag • 10:31a, 3/23/23
AG
Woods Ag said:
He did, he had his greatest game ever against TB... That team was terrible - didn't deserve to be in the playoffs bad, but played in the worst division in recent history.

It's funny because I just said in my previous post that guys like you will always make excuses when he wins/plays really well.


Look man, I know it feels like we are all dumping on you and sorry about that. Your opinion is as valid as everybody else's. But when it comes to Cowboys QBs since Aikman, there are a lot of people where it's not even a discussion. Romo & Dak suck and that's it. End of discussion. Doesn't matter how many stats or logical arguments we make.
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Goldie Wilson
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In reply to Woods Ag • 10:43a, 3/23/23
Woods Ag said:
1 Patrick Mahomes
2 Joe Burrow
3 Justin Herbert
4 Josh Allen
5 Jalen Hurts
6 Lamar Jackson
7 Tom Brady
8 Aaron Rodgers
9 Matthew Stafford
10 Trevor Lawerence
11 Tua Tagovailoa
12 Deshaun Watson

I'd have him in the 13-16 range.

He's in this group: Carr, Dak, Cousins, Tannehill they're all interchangeable.

Kyler - could be higher but his leadership/personality/whatever makes him a no-fly-zone
Justin Fields & Brock Purdy could develop into better. Especially with Shanahan as Purdy's coach.
Daniel Jones - with his HC he may eventually be ahead of Dak
Brady, Rodgers and Stafford are too high if this list is "who do you want right now as your franchise QB."

Brady, Stafford, Tua, and Watson are too high if the list is "who you want as your QB to win one game right now "
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jr15aggie
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In reply to Woods Ag • 10:47a, 3/23/23
AG
Woods Ag said:
Look, the dude is Kirk Cousins. I wouldn't be satisfied if my QB was Kirk Cousins, either.

And one last thing to pile on......

Kirk Cousins lost in the playoffs to the 9-7-1 NY Football Giants.
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98Ag99Grad
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10:52a, 3/23/23
AG
Tua? Guy is one hit from eating through a straw the rest of his life.
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Tksymm7
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In reply to Macarthur • 10:57a, 3/23/23
AG
You have to include Lamar's rushing stats. That's a huge part of his game and a true weapon. He has quite literally won games walking in the endzone because he's running away from someone.
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98Ag99Grad
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11:07a, 3/23/23
AG
And Lawrence is too low on this list and Herbert too high. Need to see more from him that just video game stats. I think his HC is a doofus so that could be part of the problem. With Pederson in Jacksonville Lawrence is going to take off.

And yeah, the Cowboys haven't gotten over the hump but all dak has done since taking over is lead the team to wins. He's not perfect but I still believe he can win it all.
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Big_Time_Timmy_Jim
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11:12a, 3/23/23
Dak is not a put the team on his back and go win the game guy. He isn't ARod, Burrow, Mahomes or guys like that who elevate average joes around them. He is what he is. Good leader, capable QB (we'll see in a new OC system)...He needs to be surrounded by talent to win big. Good running game and great WR play. Great defense.

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Macarthur
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In reply to Tksymm7 • 11:15a, 3/23/23
Tksymm7 said:
You have to include Lamar's rushing stats. That's a huge part of his game and a true weapon. He has quite literally won games walking in the endzone because he's running away from someone.

He's a great runner, but he's entering his 6th year. How long is he going to be able to have 150 rushes a season?
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Macarthur
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In reply to Big_Time_Timmy_Jim • 11:20a, 3/23/23
Big_Time_Timmy_Jim said:
Dak is not a put the team on his back and go win the game guy. He isn't ARod, Burrow, Mahomes or guys like that who elevate average joes around them. He is what he is. Good leader, capable QB (we'll see in a new OC system)...He needs to be surrounded by talent to win big. Good running game and great WR play. Great defense.


This. As a part of the pro-Dak crowd, I've never said Dak is in that top 3 or 4 guys, but he's as good as pretty much everyone else if given talent.

I think Hurts is going to be a very interesting case study moving forward. He had a great year, but he had several things going for him. The best OL in the game. Top 5 skill position weapons. An offensive scheme that was fantastic and schemed so many wide open throws, it's incredible. Not to mention a top 3 or 4 pass rush on the defense. NOW, he's about to be a $50m a year guy so they are already having to cut lose talent on that roster.
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ramblin_ag02
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11:28a, 3/23/23
AG
Agree with the above. As much as I hate to say it, Dak is Eli Manning, not Peyton Manning. He's good, and he can be good enough. But he's too inconsistent to be upper tier
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Tksymm7
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In reply to Macarthur • 11:35a, 3/23/23
AG
Agreed, but he's an elite elite athlete, so I would think he could be a great rusher longer than most guys. Or at least I would bet on it.
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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11:52a, 3/23/23
AG
Dak can win a championship. He's just a guy who needs more help than other QBs need to do it. If guys like Mahomes need to just 70% of everything around him to go just right to win a title, Dak needs 90%.
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Vince Blake
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2:43p, 3/23/23
I did not realize Zeke and Joe Burrow were at Ohio St together.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to Orlando Ayala Cant Read • 2:44p, 3/23/23
AG
Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:
Dak can win a championship. He's just a guy who needs more help than other QBs need to do it. If guys like Mahomes need to just 70% of everything around him to go just right to win a title, Dak needs 90%.


And I would argue that it's easier to build a great team around a good qb than it is to land one of the greatest QBs of all time.
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jr15aggie
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3:39p, 3/23/23
AG
A little history from a guy that started watching Cowboys football as a kid around the mid 80's:

There was ~ 5 year gap between the good version of Danny White and Aikman. Post Aikman, we had another ~ 5 years before Romo took over. And we had zero years in between the Romo and Dak era.

The definition of "bad Cowboys QB" I've had to listen to for 20 years now comes from 2 groups of people:

  • People that remember the Aikman years and no QB will ever be "good" unless they win a Super Bowl or three
  • People who are spoiled by the fact that this franchise has NEVER had to deal with decade long stretches of legitimate BAD QB play.
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98Ag99Grad
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In reply to jr15aggie • 3:45p, 3/23/23
AG
I long for the good ol days of Quincy Carter, Clint Stoerner, Anthony Wright, Drew Henson, Chad Hutchison, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe personally. Those were good times.
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Hubert J. Farnsworth
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 4:05p, 3/23/23
98Ag99Grad said:
I long for the good ol days of Quincy Carter, Clint Stoerner, Anthony Wright, Drew Henson, Chad Hutchison, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe personally. Those were good times.


What a wretched run of quarterbacks that was. My buddies and I used to call Testaverde "Interceptaverde".
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 4:05p, 3/23/23
AG
The last time the Cowboys drafted a QB in the first round was Aikman in 1989. Jerry is obsessed with bargain bin QBs. Sometimes it works out, like with Romo and Dak, but we've been ridiculously lucky to even have that level of play.
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 5:16p, 3/23/23
AG
98Ag99Grad said:
I long for the good ol days of Quincy Carter, Clint Stoerner, Anthony Wright, Drew Henson, Chad Hutchison, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe personally. Those were good times.


I think you meant Quinthy
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MookieBlaylock
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In reply to Hubert J. Farnsworth • 6:06p, 3/23/23
AG
Hubert J. Farnsworth said:
98Ag99Grad said:
I long for the good ol days of Quincy Carter, Clint Stoerner, Anthony Wright, Drew Henson, Chad Hutchison, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe personally. Those were good times.


What a wretched run of quarterbacks that was. My buddies and I used to call Testaverde "Interceptaverde".



Thanks for sharing I am totally stealing that
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Ag Natural
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 7:58p, 3/23/23
AG
ramblin_ag02 said:
The last time the Cowboys drafted a QB in the first round was Aikman in 1989. Jerry is obsessed with bargain bin QBs. Sometimes it works out, like with Romo and Dak, but we've been ridiculously lucky to even have that level of play.


Well supposedly Jerry wanted to take Johnny in the 1st round AND they supposedly tried very hard to trade up into the late first to take Lynch (the same year the got Dak). I dont think the team is fundamentally opposed, there just hasn't been the right guy at the right time. The Aikman pick was the easiest decision ever and Cowboys haven't had a pick higher than 4 ever since.
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98Ag99Grad
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8:06p, 3/23/23
AG
He also wanted that guy outta Memphis, Paxton something or other who Denver took. Dodged another bullet there.

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DannyDuberstein
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8:10p, 3/23/23
AG
That was Paxton Lynch. They also wanted Connor Cook in the 4th and the Raiders traded up just in front to grab him, so they settled for Dak.

This is why I think you buy the 4th-5th round QB lottery ticket every 3 years or so. You never know
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Woods Ag
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In reply to jr15aggie • 8:23p, 3/23/23
AG
You all dumping on me doesn't mean much bc you all are wrong and I am right.

I saw your previous post and it was weak so I ignored it. I could say that about anything and then recant it when you spout your next point.

I loved Romo. He was unjustly judged by many and he carried us thru dark years of mismanagement. Dak is still terrible.

Edit: terrible is too strong and not true. He's not the guy that will ever get us where we want to go. He's a placeholder and I wish we would keep looking.
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gigem1223
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9:18p, 3/23/23
Dak haters are the worst. They rival Eagles fans for me. No sense of reality, the QB market or how the cap works and obviously don't watch the 31 other teams in the league. Sad the Cowboys QB always has to be so polarizing amongst fans.

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