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Snake Thread: 2023

315,385 Views | 1916 Replies | Last: 10 mo ago by 12f Mane
ttha_aggie_09
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They've evolved to look just like a CM to potential predators. It's not always easy to quickly distinguish between the two but that's the point and traditionally keeps them alive.

Regarding the pattern - CMs can have very defined bands (especially juveniles like the pic above) and an easily recognizable pattern that is different from almost all water snakes. However they can be solid black and even a grayish color with little to no pattern.

I'm sure 12fmane or Badace can elaborate more
krosch11
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https://www.facebook.com/houstonurbanwildlife/videos/cottonmouth-snake-id/525411414962496/


This video helped me. Going to be honest with you though, I feel like all the determining factors require you to be close enough to tell. If I'm in the water and see a darker snake coming at me , I'm not sticking around to try and decipher which is which


Case In point :
That's a water snake on a cottonmouth. From 10+ yards away while moving that's a tough ask if the snake is in the water .
TheClaw07
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Diamondback water snake? Couldn't get it to stop long enough to get a great look.
ttha_aggie_09
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Sea Speed
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Not quite a snake but this dude could swim like a gator it was wild to watch. That tail was so blue.
Reginald Cousins
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Sea Speed said:

Not quite a snake but this dude could swim like a gator it was wild to watch. That tail was so blue.



I've got those things by the dozens.
rak1693
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ttha_aggie_09 said:

I have seen a few where I hunt in Uvalde County (northern tip) and from what I understand, that is in the Northern part of their range. They're primarily a South Texas snake but where those lines are draw is an interesting question…

We're just north of you in Real County and we've had one that we've seen in Camp Wood in the past 5 years or so
MouthBQ98
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Nah, they're looking for toads.


BadAzzBohemian
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JRT would have killed it. Hope I don't regret intervening.
Badace52
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It's a cottonmouth...
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Sea Speed
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What are the toxicity levels of the 4 venomous Texas snakes? I know dogs seem to fare pretty well against copperhead with some benadryl. I know rattlers regularly hospitalize people and iirc corals are the worst but are pretty docile with small mouths. How do people and dogs fare with bites from the 4 overall?
maroon barchetta
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A cousin's husband got bit by a coral snake on the hand while he was picking up pecans in the yard back in the early 90's.

They put him in the car and rushed to the ER. Less than a 10-minute ride.

By the time they got there he was in agony and later said he felt like his entire body was on fire. He must have had a pretty strong dose.

He was hospitalized for several days but fully recovered.

My retired neighbor was struck on the hands twice in her life by copperheads while gardening. She did fine but did have to be hospitalized.

We had a dog get struck by a copperhead. Gave him Benadryl and he felt like crap for a few days but was fine afterwards.

Another dog got struck by a cottonmouth. The dog was sick for several days. Had to force water down him in small doses with a syringe and try to give me small amounts of wet food.

He didn't want to go out and do any of his puppy business for four days. We finally walked him at a very slow pace until he pooped. It was some of the foulest stuff I've ever been around.

His kidneys seemed to have been affected by that whole ordeal. He wasn't as vibrant afterwards.
MouthBQ98
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Coral snake: neurotoxins that can threaten breathing and cardiopulmonary activity. Potent but don't often envenomate, and small amounts.

Rattlesnakes: various species with mostly hemotoxic venom though some have multiple toxic properties. Large snakes with lots of venom. Tissue destructive, coagulates blood and causes stroke and heart attack risk in addition to tissue necrosis and cardiopulmonary failure. Lots of permanent damage possible in bite area.

Cottonmouth: small to medium snake with lots of venom. Reputation for aggression but it's mostly bluff and show. They flee randomly so sometimes it seems they are chasing, and they threat display their mouth. Hemotoxic venom less potent and damaging than rattlesnakes but still damaging and a slight risk to be fatal in a severe reaction. Can be some permanent tissue damage.

Copperhead: hemotoxic venom. Small snakes usually, venom is painful and slightly damaging but virtually never fatal excepting a severe allergic reaction.

All the hemotoxic venoms cause considerable local swelling.

Dogs have been hit with one copperhead resulting in a very grouchy dog with a swollen muzzle, one small moccasin resulting in a nasty seeping swollen toe wound that eventually healed, and one dog we thing got hit in the back leg by a timber rattler, resulting in a very swollen seeping wound on the back leg that left permanent surface scarring in the bite area, but the dog did fully recover.

Sea Speed
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My wife is very allergic to ants and has been stung by a bee and that puffed her ear up for a week so I would hate to see what a snakebite would do to her. She has 3 prescriptions we keep on hand for when fireants inevitably get her and i imagine if the bites were numerous enough she would need an epi pen. We were talking about getting a snake bite kit for the house now that we are surrounded on 3 sides by woods and have a good sized pond in the front yard. I imagine we will be seeing snakes of all sorts over the coming years.
BadAzzBohemian
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I let an adult cottonmouth slip away before and it came back and bit the previous JRT a few days later. The JRT got benadryl and a tennis ball lump on its jaw but was fine.

This one got a 2nd chance because it was still mostly a juvenile and because the right dispatch tool wasn't readily available. It slithered off into Barker Reservoir.

It was a beautiful snake and there was no doubt to its identity. If it comes back, there won't be a 2nd chance.
ttha_aggie_09
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I don't think snake bite kits are recommended anymore. I think there's more potential for harm and increased risk of infection without really mitigating any of the short term effects. I think understanding how to treat someone that has been bitten and how to keep them calm and prepare them for a trip to the hospital is the most important thing.

This is a great question for BadAce though.
Badace52
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Bottom of the list in Texas are Texas coral snakes. No one has ever died from a Texas coral snake bite and mild shortness of breath is the absolute worst symptoms we see from them. Usually it's just localized paraesthesias (tingling/numbness) that resolves quickly. This is not true for Arizona or Eastern coral snakes neither of which appear in Texas. Both of those which are now considered separate species from the Texas Coral snake have been associated with death from respiratory failure and neurotoxicity. Eastern coral snakes are the most deadly.

Next in Texas is copperheads. While they have been known to kill a few people, it is a rare occurrence and antivenom is often not necessary for their envenomations, but always come to the closest hospital with a crofab(antivenin) supply if you are bitten so we can monitor your blood markers and bite progression to determine if you will need antivenin.

Cottonmouths and rattlesnakes are similarly dangerous. There are a lot of different rattlesnake species and some are definitely more dangerous than others with more complex venom. Both Massasauga and Mojave rattlesnakes have combination neurotoxin and hematoxic venom.

Diamondbacks are credited for the most deaths, but to be fair pretty much any rattlesnake that bites someone is going to be called a diamondback unless there is a picture of the snake and even then most ER docs will identify most rattlesnakes as a diamondback when presented with a picture of one with a similar pattern.

You should always present as soon as possible to the closest hospital with antivenom when bitten by any of the crotalid viper species (copperheads, cottonmouths, rattlesnakes) for monitoring and possible antivenin administration.

Tourniquets, venom suction devices and cutting bite sites to drain venom are never recommended. All three cause more localized tissue damage and do not eliminate venom from the system or keep it from spreading throughout the body. It only takes a couple heartbeats for the venom to spread throughout the body.

The most important thing is to get to the hospital ASAP. If you have some benadryl on hand it's not a bad idea to take a tablet or two, but don't stop to pick any up on the way to the hospital. We have it here. They also have it on ambulances so calling 911 is a good option as well especially in urban/suburban areas.


Edit: Dogs are much much more resistant to all snakebites than humans. Small dogs can get into pretty bad trouble from snakebites, but medium and large dogs almost always recover even without intervention and a little benadryl goes a long way for dogs.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TacosaurusRex
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BadAzzBohemian said:

JRT would have killed it. Hope I don't regret intervening.



This is the first one I've ever seen that didn't look like a compete a hole lol.
TacosaurusRex
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Sea Speed said:

What are the toxicity levels of the 4 venomous Texas snakes? I know dogs seem to fare pretty well against copperhead with some benadryl. I know rattlers regularly hospitalize people and iirc corals are the worst but are pretty docile with small mouths. How do people and dogs fare with bites from the 4 overall?


I can tell you from personal experience rattlesnake bites don't feel great. -10/10 would not recommend.

Four days in the ICU, but no long term damage physically. Mentally, I'm still not cool with them.
MouthBQ98
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Speaking of..



Bulldog73
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That thing is beautiful.
BadAzzBohemian
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TacosaurusRex said:

BadAzzBohemian said:

JRT would have killed it. Hope I don't regret intervening.



This is the first one I've ever seen that didn't look like a compete a hole lol.



Probably because it was just a youngster. As the dog was about to kill it, head was flipped back with mouth open in full a-hole posture. After I trapped it with the hoe, it struck at the handle, but calmed down pretty quickly.
fasthorse05
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Those eyes.

4stringAg
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Badace52 said:

Bottom of the list in Texas are Texas coral snakes. No one has ever died from a Texas coral snake bite and mild shortness of breath is the absolute worst symptoms we see from them. Usually it's just localized paraesthesias (tingling/numbness) that resolves quickly. This is not true for Arizona or Eastern coral snakes neither of which appear in Texas. Both of those which are now considered separate species from the Texas Coral snake have been associated with death from respiratory failure and neurotoxicity. Eastern coral snakes are the most deadly.

Next in Texas is copperheads. While they have been known to kill a few people, it is a rare occurrence and antivenom is often not necessary for their envenomations, but always come to the closest hospital with a crofab(antivenin) supply if you are bitten so we can monitor your blood markers and bite progression to determine if you will need antivenin.

Cottonmouths and rattlesnakes are similarly dangerous. There are a lot of different rattlesnake species and some are definitely more dangerous than others with more complex venom. Both Massasauga and Mojave rattlesnakes have combination neurotoxin and hematoxic venom.

Diamondbacks are credited for the most deaths, but to be fair pretty much any rattlesnake that bites someone is going to be called a diamondback unless there is a picture of the snake and even then most ER docs will identify most rattlesnakes as a diamondback when presented with a picture of one with a similar pattern.

You should always present as soon as possible to the closest hospital with antivenom when bitten by any of the crotalid viper species (copperheads, cottonmouths, rattlesnakes) for monitoring and possible antivenin administration.

Tourniquets, venom suction devices and cutting bite sites to drain venom are never recommended. All three cause more localized tissue damage and do not eliminate venom from the system or keep it from spreading throughout the body. It only takes a couple heartbeats for the venom to spread throughout the body.

The most important thing is to get to the hospital ASAP. If you have some benadryl on hand it's not a bad idea to take a tablet or two, but don't stop to pick any up on the way to the hospital. We have it here. They also have it on ambulances so calling 911 is a good option as well especially in urban/suburban areas.


Edit: Dogs are much much more resistant to all snakebites than humans. Small dogs can get into pretty bad trouble from snakebites, but medium and large dogs almost always recover even without intervention and a little benadryl goes a long way for dogs.


I thought I read or saw on tv that timber rattlers cause heavier necrosis than other rattlers??
Cromagnum
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Badace52
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Not sure they are more necrotic, but they are another species with a combination hematoxic and neurotoxic venom and can cause severe muscle spasms which is fairly unique for rattlesnake venom. I imagine the spasms could lead to worse muscle breakdown (rhabdomyolysis) and that might be what you heard about on television.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
JDGS612
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First snake I've ever caught by hand. Really docile snake and such a cool experience for me and my 9yo son. We moved it a safe distance from the house to keep the cats from finding it.

ttha_aggie_09
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That's awesome! Good job!
Cromagnum
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I'm amazed you caught that kingsnake. Those boogers are pretty fast.
FTAG 2000
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MouthBQ98 said:

Speaking of..




I still continue to be amazed you and your family willingly live there.

We would have noped it out of there by now and recommended the US military nuke it from orbit.
Reginald Cousins
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Sea Speed said:

What are the toxicity levels of the 4 venomous Texas snakes? I know dogs seem to fare pretty well against copperhead with some benadryl. I know rattlers regularly hospitalize people and iirc corals are the worst but are pretty docile with small mouths. How do people and dogs fare with bites from the 4 overall?


Depending on what you subscribe to, Benadryl doesn't actually do anything.

https://gigafact.org/fact-briefs/is-benadryl-a-helpful-first-aid-treatment-for-venomous-snakebites
oh no
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Had a small dog (Scottish Terrier) in Louisiana in the 90s get bit by a cotton-headed ninny-moccasin. Jumped about 3 feet in the air when she got struck and cried like hell. She was really lethargic for a week or two and had a sack of poison on her neck, but the vet only prescribed some Benadryl.
Reginald Cousins
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oh no said:

Had a small dog (Scottish Terrier) in Louisiana in the 90s get bit by a cotton-headed ninny-moccasin. Jumped about 3 feet in the air when she got struck and cried like hell. She was really lethargic for a week or two and had a sack of poison on her neck, but the vet only prescribed some Benadryl.


I'm not saying it's not a common prophylactic.

I'm saying the mechanism doesn't really help.
oh no
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Yeah, I have no idea if the Benadryl actually did anything to help or not. Dogs are just better equipped to handle a snake bite than humans are
Reginald Cousins
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oh no said:

Yeah, I have no idea if the Benadryl actually did anything to help or not. Dogs are just better equipped to handle a snake bite than humans are


For sure.
 
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