***DALLAS COWBOYS 2019 SEASON***

296,998 Views | 3256 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by double aught
Kellso
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AgGrad99 said:


Quote:

It was always obvious the Cowboys had the money to pay Zeke, and now they have.
It's not about 'having the money'.

The Salary cap is a Pie. The entire issue is boils down to the amount of the pie you want to allocate to him. The more you spend on one player, the less you have to spend on the rest.

Jerry's never had an issue spending the money. But the Cowboys haven't been consistently competitive since the cap went into place. The cap has been the #1 thing hurting the Boys the past decade, etc.

Last year we were #3 in the league in dead money. The majority of that was the final amount of Romo and Dez. This year we're <finally> way down the list...because we'd been smart for the past 5-6 years, for the first time in a long time.

Hopefully, this is heavily front loaded, and hopefully Zeke wont be a knucklehead off the field. This is a bad contract if we get stuck with a lot of dead money at some point. It'll be a good contract if he produces, and we're not hamstrung over a bunch of dead money in the future.

I think the angst comes from it being Zeke (with his 'shaky' history), and it being the RB...a position that's devalued for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with passing offenses (heavily injured, easier to replace than other positions, etc).


When you have an elite player at a position that you have built your team around......then pay him.

This contract dispute went exactly how I stated it was going to go except that I was off by two days.

Zeke is in his prime and has already proven his value.

Just because another team doesn't value the run game, doesn't mean the Cowboys have to copycat.

For the past month the majority of you guys were like F*** Zeke and let him walk......and Im like......let him walk for what ????

So we could give more pie/money to who???????
AgGrad99
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AG
I think we all knew this is how it would go. It's Jerry. It's how it always goes.

The issue is that you need more than one elite player to win a championship. Which gets back to the Pie....and why we've struggled for so long.

bonfarr
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AG


I didn't realize the Cowboys had $11 million roll over from last year. Being frugal in free agency is helping Jerry pay his guys now.
jr15aggie
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AG
AgGrad99 said:

I think we all knew this is how it would go. It's Jerry. It's how it always goes.

I think we all knew this is how it would go. It's Cowboy Fans. It's how it always goes.
gigem1223
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Fish was on the fan earlier saying he believes they have about $31M in cap space after the Zeke deal. The Collins and Zeke deals actually saved money this year on the cap. Makes me wonder if we'll see a Dak deal soon as Ed Werder reported they're trying to get done.

gigem1223
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AgGrad99 said:

I think we all knew this is how it would go. It's Jerry. It's how it always goes.

The issue is that you need more than one elite player to win a championship. Which gets back to the Pie....and why we've struggled for so long.




There are several good to elite players on this roster that are locked up for the next several years....and there is still quite a bit of pie left.
Panama Red
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AG
This is a great deal for Cowboys.

Zero dead money if cut the last 2 years.

Cap hits in added years:

$13.7mm
$16.5mm
$15mm
$12.6mm
$15.4mm
$16.6mm
double aught
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AG
Analytics say that Zeke is very overrated and therefore, now overpaid. I guess we'll see.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/
AgGrad99
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Panama Red said:

This is a great deal for Cowboys.

Zero dead money if cut the last 2 years.

Cap hits in added years:

$13.7mm
$16.5mm
$15mm
$12.6mm
$15.4mm
$16.6mm


Definitely like that.

As long as he stays on the field and produces for 4 years...it's a good deal for the Boys
TyHolden
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double aught said:

Analytics say that Zeke is very overrated and therefore, now overpaid. I guess we'll see.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/
2016 election landslide....same guys

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
double aught
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Yeah, it's the same URL, but that's about where the similarities end. An incorrect election forecast by one guy three years ago doesn't mean a football analysis by another guys is wrong.
DannyDuberstein
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Can't say I'm surprised at that analysis. His YPA is good but nothing special, he hasn't been getting into the end zone lately, and he needs to stop putting the damn ball on the ground. 6 fumbles last year was ridiculous.
gigem1223
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double aught said:

Analytics say that Zeke is very overrated and therefore, now overpaid. I guess we'll see.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/


Well I guess Saquon Barkley is overrated too since he didn't even make the list of these ridiculous rankings.
DannyDuberstein
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Well, in Barkley's defense, he did get into the endzone nearly twice as much and never put the ball on the ground. Maybe Moore will figure out how to leverage him better in the redzone. His rookie year was strong in that dept, although he was still a fumbler.
gigem1223
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Let's see how overrated Zeke is with Moore calling the plays. What these analytics don't account for is what the defense is doing and an incompetent OC.
Southlake
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Geez, I told you guys Zeke would get everything he wanted. But a 50 million dollar guarantee?

Seems like Jerry couldn't stand it any longer and over rode Steven.

Got to hand it to Zeke, he stood toe to toe with Jerry and kicked his butt.

Now let's see if it was worth it....
Ag Natural
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Zeke definitely wasnt as good last year with a limited offensive line. But he still is a great talent so why not double down on him and the oline? This team is now built to control the ball and dominate on defense. That has always been a great formula.
Ag Natural
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Southlake said:

Geez, I told you guys Zeke would get everything he wanted. But a 50 million dollar guarantee?

Seems like Jerry couldn't stand it any longer and over rode Steven.

Got to hand it to Zeke, he stood toe to toe with Jerry and kicked his butt.

Now let's see if it was worth it....


I see this more as both sides getting what they want. Zeke is locked up arba price that isnt going to kill the cap. And he gets to say hes the highest paid RB of all time. Fans dont like to look at the nuances of how these deals are structured, but that ends up paying a bigger role in the success of a negotiation.

mavsfan4ever
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Kellso said:

mavsfan4ever said:

You keep mentioning people not wanting to spend Jerry's money and being pro-billionaire. No one cares about Jerry spending or not spending money. This isn't ****ing baseball. There is a salary cap, and Jerry will always spend 100% of the cap. So whether he paid Zeke or not, Jerry is going to be paying the same amount of money either way. It's not saving him money if he doesn't pay Zeke and it's not costing him money if he pays Zeke. That is one thing in this whole contract dispute that Jerry said that was actually 100% correct.

So the only reason people were concerned with "Jerry spending his money on Zeke" was the effect it could have on the Cowboys' cap situation and how paying a running back huge money could negatively affect the team overall, due to them not being able to sign other key (and perhaps more important) players at other positions.

I disagree with the strategy of paying big money to running backs and think the money is better spent elsewhere. Having said that, if the money is front loaded as I expect it is, this isn't as bad of a contract as some are making it out to be. And I somewhat understand paying big money to a running back in this instance where we are set up nicely to make a run for it for the next 1-3 years.
Zeke is the best at his position in the NFL and has been the most dominant player on the Cowboys roster since Day 1.


If you wanna let Zeke go for more "important" positions...then I really have to question if you really want to win the Super Bowl.

As I stated last week....just pay the guy and be done with it.


Please tell me the last super bowl winner who paid a running back huge dollars. Has to be either the 90s cowboys or the 90s rams. And Marshall Faulk was more of a combo running back/receiver. There haven't been any champions since the 90s that had a first team all nfl running back. I don't think it's even debatable that running back is not an "important" position in today's nfl and that teams benefit from having cheap, productive backs and spending that money elsewhere.

There are very good arguments for not paying running backs big money. Of course, the people who understand that would also never draft a running back at #4 overall. So i agree that it was obvious the cowboys were going to pay him.
Ag Natural
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AG
Well the Rams paid Gurley and made the SB. And they are favored to go back. So why isnt anyone writing them off for such a horrible franchise killing decision?
AgGrad99
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But that's widely viewed as a very bad contract by the Rams.
gigem1223
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mavsfan4ever said:

Kellso said:

mavsfan4ever said:

You keep mentioning people not wanting to spend Jerry's money and being pro-billionaire. No one cares about Jerry spending or not spending money. This isn't ****ing baseball. There is a salary cap, and Jerry will always spend 100% of the cap. So whether he paid Zeke or not, Jerry is going to be paying the same amount of money either way. It's not saving him money if he doesn't pay Zeke and it's not costing him money if he pays Zeke. That is one thing in this whole contract dispute that Jerry said that was actually 100% correct.

So the only reason people were concerned with "Jerry spending his money on Zeke" was the effect it could have on the Cowboys' cap situation and how paying a running back huge money could negatively affect the team overall, due to them not being able to sign other key (and perhaps more important) players at other positions.

I disagree with the strategy of paying big money to running backs and think the money is better spent elsewhere. Having said that, if the money is front loaded as I expect it is, this isn't as bad of a contract as some are making it out to be. And I somewhat understand paying big money to a running back in this instance where we are set up nicely to make a run for it for the next 1-3 years.
Zeke is the best at his position in the NFL and has been the most dominant player on the Cowboys roster since Day 1.


If you wanna let Zeke go for more "important" positions...then I really have to question if you really want to win the Super Bowl.

As I stated last week....just pay the guy and be done with it.


Please tell me the last super bowl winner who paid a running back huge dollars. Has to be either the 90s cowboys or the 90s rams. And Marshall Faulk was more of a combo running back/receiver. There haven't been any champions since the 90s that had a first team all nfl running back. I don't think it's even debatable that running back is not an "important" position in today's nfl and that teams benefit from having cheap, productive backs and spending that money elsewhere.

There are very good arguments for not paying running backs big money. Of course, the people who understand that would also never draft a running back at #4 overall. So i agree that it was obvious the cowboys were going to pay him.


RBs to make super bowl in last 5 years making top 3 money.

Todd Gurley - 2018
Devonta Freeman - 2017
Marshawn Lynch - 2014 and 2015

Doesn't seem to fit your narrative.
Kellso
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mavsfan4ever said:

Kellso said:

mavsfan4ever said:

You keep mentioning people not wanting to spend Jerry's money and being pro-billionaire. No one cares about Jerry spending or not spending money. This isn't ****ing baseball. There is a salary cap, and Jerry will always spend 100% of the cap. So whether he paid Zeke or not, Jerry is going to be paying the same amount of money either way. It's not saving him money if he doesn't pay Zeke and it's not costing him money if he pays Zeke. That is one thing in this whole contract dispute that Jerry said that was actually 100% correct.

So the only reason people were concerned with "Jerry spending his money on Zeke" was the effect it could have on the Cowboys' cap situation and how paying a running back huge money could negatively affect the team overall, due to them not being able to sign other key (and perhaps more important) players at other positions.

I disagree with the strategy of paying big money to running backs and think the money is better spent elsewhere. Having said that, if the money is front loaded as I expect it is, this isn't as bad of a contract as some are making it out to be. And I somewhat understand paying big money to a running back in this instance where we are set up nicely to make a run for it for the next 1-3 years.
Zeke is the best at his position in the NFL and has been the most dominant player on the Cowboys roster since Day 1.


If you wanna let Zeke go for more "important" positions...then I really have to question if you really want to win the Super Bowl.

As I stated last week....just pay the guy and be done with it.


Please tell me the last super bowl winner who paid a running back huge dollars. Has to be either the 90s cowboys or the 90s rams. And Marshall Faulk was more of a combo running back/receiver. There haven't been any champions since the 90s that had a first team all nfl running back. I don't think it's even debatable that running back is not an "important" position in today's nfl and that teams benefit from having cheap, productive backs and spending that money elsewhere.

There are very good arguments for not paying running backs big money. Of course, the people who understand that would also never draft a running back at #4 overall. So i agree that it was obvious the cowboys were going to pay him.
Who gives a rats ass????

I get so sick of hearing this crap that Is just regurgitated from ESPN and Fox sports.

Fans of the NFL tend to get on his copycat formula and then try to use data to act like there is only ONE way to win in the NFL.

I don't know if you are old enough to have witnessed the 1990's Dallas Cowboys, but they are building this team the exact same way. Dominant, bruising offensive line with a Hall of Fame Caliber tailback.

Truth be told....I don't see you how stop it. There was no defense that could stop the Emmmit/Troy/Irvin offense....and the defenses they were facing in the NFC East were full of All Pro and Hall of Fame defensive players.

You don't win in the NFL by copycatting others. You win in the NFL by having an identity (defense, rushing, passing...etc) and executing better than others.

mavsfan4ever
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AG
Ag Natural said:

Well the Rams paid Gurley and made the SB. And they are favored to go back. So why isnt anyone writing them off for such a horrible franchise killing decision?


I think everyone has been killing the rams for that contract.
Ag Natural
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mavsfan4ever said:

Ag Natural said:

Well the Rams paid Gurley and made the SB. And they are favored to go back. So why isnt anyone writing them off for such a horrible franchise killing decision?


I think everyone has been killing the rams for that contract.



Sure they've complained about it as they've waltzed their way to being an elite team in the league. If I'm the Rams I'm telling everyone to f off and watch the scoreboard.
mavsfan4ever
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gigem1223 said:

mavsfan4ever said:

Kellso said:

mavsfan4ever said:

You keep mentioning people not wanting to spend Jerry's money and being pro-billionaire. No one cares about Jerry spending or not spending money. This isn't ****ing baseball. There is a salary cap, and Jerry will always spend 100% of the cap. So whether he paid Zeke or not, Jerry is going to be paying the same amount of money either way. It's not saving him money if he doesn't pay Zeke and it's not costing him money if he pays Zeke. That is one thing in this whole contract dispute that Jerry said that was actually 100% correct.

So the only reason people were concerned with "Jerry spending his money on Zeke" was the effect it could have on the Cowboys' cap situation and how paying a running back huge money could negatively affect the team overall, due to them not being able to sign other key (and perhaps more important) players at other positions.

I disagree with the strategy of paying big money to running backs and think the money is better spent elsewhere. Having said that, if the money is front loaded as I expect it is, this isn't as bad of a contract as some are making it out to be. And I somewhat understand paying big money to a running back in this instance where we are set up nicely to make a run for it for the next 1-3 years.
Zeke is the best at his position in the NFL and has been the most dominant player on the Cowboys roster since Day 1.


If you wanna let Zeke go for more "important" positions...then I really have to question if you really want to win the Super Bowl.

As I stated last week....just pay the guy and be done with it.


Please tell me the last super bowl winner who paid a running back huge dollars. Has to be either the 90s cowboys or the 90s rams. And Marshall Faulk was more of a combo running back/receiver. There haven't been any champions since the 90s that had a first team all nfl running back. I don't think it's even debatable that running back is not an "important" position in today's nfl and that teams benefit from having cheap, productive backs and spending that money elsewhere.

There are very good arguments for not paying running backs big money. Of course, the people who understand that would also never draft a running back at #4 overall. So i agree that it was obvious the cowboys were going to pay him.


RBs to make super bowl in last 5 years making top 3 money.

Todd Gurley - 2018
Devonta Freeman - 2017
Marshawn Lynch - 2014 and 2015

Doesn't seem to fit your narrative.


Wow, would've never guessed that freeman was top 3 money. Seahawks and rams had good quarterbacks on very cheap deals which helped lessen the blow. But I admit that winning the super bowl is somewhat arbitrary if a lot of top paid backs are making it and losing.

I think Seahawks are a good example of what can be done with cheap running backs. They just plugged in a 7th rounder last year who performed great. If you have a good/great offensive line, i think the money can be better spent elsewhere.
Kellso
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mavsfan4ever said:

Kellso said:

mavsfan4ever said:

You keep mentioning people not wanting to spend Jerry's money and being pro-billionaire. No one cares about Jerry spending or not spending money. This isn't ****ing baseball. There is a salary cap, and Jerry will always spend 100% of the cap. So whether he paid Zeke or not, Jerry is going to be paying the same amount of money either way. It's not saving him money if he doesn't pay Zeke and it's not costing him money if he pays Zeke. That is one thing in this whole contract dispute that Jerry said that was actually 100% correct.

So the only reason people were concerned with "Jerry spending his money on Zeke" was the effect it could have on the Cowboys' cap situation and how paying a running back huge money could negatively affect the team overall, due to them not being able to sign other key (and perhaps more important) players at other positions.

I disagree with the strategy of paying big money to running backs and think the money is better spent elsewhere. Having said that, if the money is front loaded as I expect it is, this isn't as bad of a contract as some are making it out to be. And I somewhat understand paying big money to a running back in this instance where we are set up nicely to make a run for it for the next 1-3 years.
Zeke is the best at his position in the NFL and has been the most dominant player on the Cowboys roster since Day 1.


If you wanna let Zeke go for more "important" positions...then I really have to question if you really want to win the Super Bowl.

As I stated last week....just pay the guy and be done with it.


Please tell me the last super bowl winner who paid a running back huge dollars. Has to be either the 90s cowboys or the 90s rams. And Marshall Faulk was more of a combo running back/receiver. There haven't been any champions since the 90s that had a first team all nfl running back. I don't think it's even debatable that running back is not an "important" position in today's nfl and that teams benefit from having cheap, productive backs and spending that money elsewhere.

There are very good arguments for not paying running backs big money. Of course, the people who understand that would also never draft a running back at #4 overall. So i agree that it was obvious the cowboys were going to pay him.
Let me give you my background.
At one time I had the same opinion as you.
Draft night 2016 I was pissed the Cowboys "wasted" a #4 pick on Zeke, and I was using the exact arguments that you are using.

I have a buddy that is an extensive gambler and who knows more about sports than anyone I know.
He tells me on draft night that the Cowboys knocked it out of the park with the Ezekiel Elliott pick.

Once Joey Bosa got drafted they were no other defensive players they felt that were as impactful as Ezekiall Elliot.

On a normal team....yeah you can probably get away with a Tony Pollard, but if you already have a great offensive line and you have the ability to take a Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Adrian Peterson, Marshall Faulk caliber of tailback you take him.
My buddy stated that Zeke was the highest rated tailback to come out of college since Adrian Peterson.

Zeke does EVERYTHING at an elite level. Blocking, running between the tackles, break away speed...etc
The Cowboys are typically at the top of the league when it comes to Time of possession and this helps the defense.

Quote:

I don't think it's even debatable that running back is not an "important" position in today's nfl


The Cowboys went 13-3 in 2016 after going 4-12 the previous year

Your argument seems to be lets be like everyone else. That rarely works.
The Cowboys have picked an identity, and now its time to ride it out.

mavsfan4ever
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AG
Ag Natural said:

mavsfan4ever said:

Ag Natural said:

Well the Rams paid Gurley and made the SB. And they are favored to go back. So why isnt anyone writing them off for such a horrible franchise killing decision?


I think everyone has been killing the rams for that contract.



Sure they've complained about it as they've waltzed their way to being an elite team in the league. If I'm the Rams I'm telling everyone to f off and watch the scoreboard.


His salary was very cheap last year and is fairly cheap this year. I think his big money kicks in in 2020. So once Goff and him are both making big money, I think the rams will feel the effect of his contract.
mavsfan4ever
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I'm not knocking Zeke. I think he's a very good player, just that it's a waste to spend big money on a running back, especially one who doesn't run pass routes past the line of scrimmage (Maybe that's the fault of the play callers). You are acting like I'm saying the cowboys are the worst franchise ever for signing him. I've said in every post that it was obvious that they would sign him. I also said the company interact isn't as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be.

Zeke was very good his rookie year. But going 4-12 the year before had more to do with not having a quarterback than not having a great running back. They would've been fine if they weren't starting terrible quarterbacks.
mavsfan4ever
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And for the record, Dvsn though I'm generally against laying running backs, i get the argument of just paying him and going for it this year and next. I think we will be really good, so I can't really blame the cowboys for doing that. It definitely makes this year exciting.
gigem1223
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Hard to believe the first game is only 3 days away. Put up or shut up boys. What's everyone's predictions for the team this season? I'll start

11-5 - NFC East champs
Lose to KC in super bowl
OPOY - Dak Prescott (think he has a breakthrough season)
DPOY - Jaylon Smith
investorAg83
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13-3. This division is cake. Losses @NO, @Chi and the Rams at home.

Lose to KC in Super Bowl.
Ag Natural
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I get the general analytical opinion that you should spend a lot on RBs. However, what I dont get is the prevailing claim that you shouldn't pay ANY RBs period. You cant convince me that Zeke, McCaffery and Barkley arent worth big money. You might argue that it should be 10 million instead of 13 million.

And that dispute about the actual dollar amount is always where the negotiations are hung up. Dallas wanted to pay Murray 7-8 million a year for 4 years. But Murray wanted 5 years and he got that from Philly so he walked. It's not black and white.

I think this Zeke deal is good for both sides. Zeke has shown hall of fame potential. Yeah he could get hurt but hes shown no signs of being injury prone so far. I wish Zeke would take 11 million instead of 15 but at the end of the day those 4 million a year arent going to make or break the cap. Neither Dak nor Cooper can claim to be the best at their position like Zeke can... so this deal should not impact those negotiations.
BenFiasco14
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gigem1223 said:

Hard to believe the first game is only 3 days away. Put up or shut up boys. What's everyone's predictions for the team this season? I'll start

11-5 - NFC East champs
Lose to KC in super bowl
OPOY - Dak Prescott (think he has a breakthrough season)
DPOY - Jaylon Smith
8-8

Lose in wildcard round by a field goal as the buzzer expires.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
Grapesoda2525
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10-6

Lose to saints in New Orleans in NFC championship game.
 
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