what do you mean by "for nothing"?

do you want them to trade him?

It is a conundrum. We keep complaining about over paying to keep guys. You can't then follow that with getting upset when a couple guys leave. $14 million is a lot for a guard. For me personally, I'd cut Dez and sign Martin. Pick up 2 or 3 young receivers and see what happens.

No matter what happens you aren't losing Martin for nothing because you'll get a 1st round comp pick if he leaves in free agency.

I thoughts compensatory picks started in 3rd round?

There is no such thing as a 1st round comp pick. But we'd definitely get a 3rd for him. Yeah, he's the best, but what is the drop off if you draft a guy that is "pretty good"... we are talking about a guard here.

There are some that think the Cowboys could get cornered into taking a guard in the 1st round this year. Depending on how the board shakes out, we could be wiped out at the coveted skill positions and we might be in another Frederick situation where we gotta take the best guy.

Wouldn't be the end of the world I guess. Plug him in right away at LG and if the kid can play, it possibly gives us an out with Martin. If Dak has another pro bowl season, we might have to say "later" to Martin because Dak will demand big money with 1 year left.

Like everything else, we'll have to see how the draft and season plays out.

Captain obvious says a linebacker is now a lock for a first round pick??

Walter Football's latest mock has Roquan Smith falling to us at 19 due to a health red flag.

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Dallas Cowboys: Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia
Tony Pauline has reported that Roquan Smith has been medically red flagged, so he has dropped about 10 spots in this mock draft update. It's unclear how serious the injury is, but we saw Reuben Foster fall for similar reasons last year.

Still, Smith is a great enough prospect that the Cowboys could consider him at this juncture. Their defense falls apart whenever Sean Lee gets hurt, so having Smith on the roster would prevent that from happening.

Read more: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018_1.php#ixzz59k92wIRy

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Broaddus says he only has 2 LB's in this draft with a 1st round grade. Smith and the kid from vtech but he's more of a 3-4 backer.

BMX Bandit said:

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what do you mean by "for nothing"?

do you want them to trade him?

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If they aren't going to get them signed they need to trade them. They should've already signed them to an extension.

Quote:

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It is a conundrum. We keep complaining about over paying to keep guys. You can't then follow that with getting upset when a couple guys leave. $14 million is a lot for a guard. For me personally, I'd cut Dez and sign Martin. Pick up 2 or 3 young receivers and see what happens.

No matter what happens you aren't losing Martin for nothing because you'll get a 1st round comp pick if he leaves in free agency.

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Cut Dez this year and you add $8 million more dead money to the cap and it would only free up $4.5 million in cap space. There's not enough incentive to make that move. Now that Sammy Watkins is making $16 million and Allen Robinson is making $14 million per year, Dez and his $12.5 doesn't look that bad.

BMX Bandit said:

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I thoughts compensatory picks started in 3rd round?

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I haven't looked it up the new rules but the way they are talking makes me believe they can receive a 1st or 2nd from the team that signs them depending on what offer the Cowboys make to their player. This is when they are specifically talking about David Irving so it might have something to do with his time in the league or being a restricted free agent. Not 100%.

Yes, this is correct. From listening to BaD Radio, it's my understanding that you can put a tender on Irving of first round, second round, etc and make a qualifying offer. Then, if another team signs him, they have to tender you that round pick. So if you put a first round tender on him, you will likely get to keep him for this year but won't get a pick. If you put a second round on him, a team will likely give up a second rounder for him. So this is what the Cowboys were said to be leaning towards.

PooDoo said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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what do you mean by "for nothing"?

do you want them to trade him?

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If they aren't going to get them signed they need to trade them. They should've already signed them to an extension.

Quote:

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It is a conundrum. We keep complaining about over paying to keep guys. You can't then follow that with getting upset when a couple guys leave. $14 million is a lot for a guard. For me personally, I'd cut Dez and sign Martin. Pick up 2 or 3 young receivers and see what happens.

No matter what happens you aren't losing Martin for nothing because you'll get a 1st round comp pick if he leaves in free agency.

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Cut Dez this year and you add $8 million more dead money to the cap and it would only free up $4.5 million in cap space. There's not enough incentive to make that move. Now that Sammy Watkins is making $16 million and Allen Robinson is making $14 million per year, Dez and his $12.5 doesn't look that bad.

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Totally agree. People are insane if they think Dez is going to be willing to take a big paycut with this free agent climate. $12 million seems about like market value, maybe even slightly under. And it makes no sense to cut Dez this year. Next year, sure that would be reasonable, but not this year. That's why I don't understand all of stephen jones' comments lately.

David Irving's situation is very different from most others. Because of the way we acquired David, we have his restricted rights. We sign him to a designated $ amount for a 2nd round tender, and if anybody beats that price and we don't match that team has to give us their 2nd rounder. Very different from the comp picks.

I see the Honey Badger is free! Good player, often injured. Sounds like a Jerry Special coming right up!!!

But seriously, talk about a guy that knows how to get the ball, something our defense apparently forgot the last 3 years!

Jordy Nelson and Suh... I also wouldn't be upset if we sent a few of those extra picks to Seattle for Earl Thomas.

Only big moves I can see us making is cutting Dez, possibly Witten (or retires). I'd like to see a trade straight up of Dez for Earl Thomas.

I think Dez could work out well for Russell Wilson because a lot of his early production wasn't because of his route running, it was the play breaking down and him getting open with Tony scrambling.

Don't see any reason for Seattle to make that trade

Suh? Badger? Cap space for Martin extension?

Ugh, not Suh. Hate that guy. Dirtiest player in the NFL.

JAggie2007 said:

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I think Dez could work out well for Russell Wilson because a lot of his early production wasn't because of his route running, it was the play breaking down and him getting open with Tony scrambling.

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If any of you happened to notice... Dez is actually paid less than what these teams paid for free agent WRs this year. 16 Mil per year for Sammy Watkins over Dez??? Yeah, no thanks!!!!! And anybody that says otherwise is spending too much time remember bad Dez and not enough times remembering when he was a baller!

As noted above, I think Dez is actually ok paid compared to the market. Now if he's causing other issues or if he's a distraction that hinders the team in any way, then that's a different matter. But if its just a salary issue, then I think you hold on to him another year.

Martin is a great player but I cannot fathom tying that much money up into him. I think they should franchise him next off season and put that decision off until the 2020 offseason. By 2020 this team is looking at something like $70M in cap space anyway and that's IF they even keep Dez. If they let Dez go , even more.

As for Suh, that signing ONLY makes sense if they are going to compliment that move with another move on defense. They are 2 impact defenders away from challenging anyone in the NFC. One move only, and its just a waste of cap space imho.

Can't disagree with your comments. Nate Newton had some really good thoughts about this team the other day... his logic seemed valid.

He basically said, we mostly need to sit tight with what we got this year, next year is when we start making moves. We will not only have more cap space (Romo & Thornton dead money gone), but we'll know so much more about our team. If D-Law balls out again, he gets a contract and then you possibly franchise Martin. If our young CBs continue to improve/impress like last year, we'll know how to proceed in the secondary. How Jaylon Smith performs tells us about our LB corp, etc.

And most importantly, depending on how Dak & Zeke perform, we'll know how we need to proceed with them as well. (Dak will be going into his final contract year at that point)

Didn't disagree with what he had to say. In short, we have 1 more year of sorta sitting tight. After that we can choose to do some flashy things if we want... just gotta be careful you don't end up right back in salary cap hell.


All that being said, if we have some money this year, I wouldn't mind flashing some at a really solid free agent that can help us under a 1 or 2 year contract (something that won't effect the future salary cap).

jr15aggie said:

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Can't disagree with your comments. Nate Newton had some really good thoughts about this team the other day... his logic seemed valid.

He basically said, we mostly need to sit tight with what we got this year, next year is when we start making moves. We will not only have more cap space (Romo & Thornton dead money gone), but we'll know so much more about our team. If D-Law balls out again, he gets a contract and then you possibly franchise Martin. If our young CBs continue to improve/impress like last year, we'll know how to proceed in the secondary. How Jaylon Smith performs tells us about our LB corp, etc.

And most importantly, depending on how Dak & Zeke perform, we'll know how we need to proceed with them as well. (Dak will be going into his final contract year at that point)

Didn't disagree with what he had to say. In short, we have 1 more year of sorta sitting tight. After that we can choose to do some flashy things if we want... just gotta be careful you don't end up right back in salary cap hell.


All that being said, if we have some money this year, I wouldn't mind flashing some at a really solid free agent that can help us under a 1 or 2 year contract (something that won't effect the future salary cap).

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I think what Nate is saying sounds solid.

I just question that mentality today in the NFL. the NFL is becoming a year to year league. You do need a good QB, but outside of that, it seems as though it's fairly year to year. Outside of NE, it seems like teams get on a good roll and ride that into the playoffs. I'm not saying we shouldn't 'build' for the future, but I also think you have to balance that with what I said above.

Dez is not signed through 2020. He is also not paid okay based on the market. Hes a top 5 salary for WR both this year and next. If he was a free agent, he would not get $16mm from anyone. (thats not a criticism of the deal when given, I had no problem with it. But it was structured such that this year and next would be a "we'll see")


and most teams have lots of cap space for 2020

BMX Bandit said:

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If he was a free agent, he would not get $16mm from anyone.

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BMX Bandit said:

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Dez is not signed through 2020. He is also not paid okay based on the market. Hes a top 5 salary for WR both this year and next. If he was a free agent, he would not get $16mm from anyone. (thats not a criticism of the deal when given, I had no problem with it. But it was structured such that this year and next would be a "we'll see")


and most teams have lots of cap space for 2020

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You think Sammy Watkins has more value than Dez on the free agent market? And why are you using the $16mm figure? We are paying Dez $12mm, so that's the figure you should be looking at.

Sounds like Crabree is getting cut. I would love to get him as WR #2 if we keep dez. Doubt we have enough room to get him though.

Disagree. The only figure that matters is the cap number. What he's paid in salary doesn't mean anything.

Dez wouldn't even get 12 million from any smart team. He can't get open and has average hands at best. I would trade Dez today for Christian Kirk and I haven't even seen Kirk play in the league yet.

Ag Natural said:

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Dez wouldn't even get 12 million from any smart team. He can't get open and has average hands at best. I would trade Dez today for Christian Kirk and I haven't even seen Kirk play in the league yet.

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I would too but that's not an option. No one is offering a first or second rounder for Dez.

Ag Natural said:

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Dez wouldn't even get 12 million from any smart team. He can't get open and has average hands at best. I would trade Dez today for Christian Kirk and I haven't even seen Kirk play in the league yet.

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How can you say this when Sammy Watkins and Allen Robinson just signed their deals. I'm not a Dez fan at all. But to say he would definitely not get $12 million is a reach. And we don't save that much cutting him this year. What do we save? $4 million and then we have to find a receiver? I don't see the logic of cutting him.

8.5 million would be the cap savings for 2018 if cut.

If cut next year, save $12.5.

Ag Natural said:

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He can't get open and has average hands at best.

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Wait, what, huh... forget it, haters gonna hate, I'm out!

BMX Bandit said:

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8.5 million would be the cap savings for 2018 if cut.

If cut next year, save $12.5.

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Oh, I thought I had heard the cap savings was only 4.5 this year. If it's 8.5, then it's a closer call. But still, you are saving $8.5 million and then what? You can't replace dez for $8.5. And if you spend that money elsewhere, you are completely screwed at receiver. I still don't think I understand the reasoning for cutting him, unless he's just a cancer in the locker room. If you cut him, it's hard for me to see how that makes us better this year.

If he has another down year, I'm all for cutting him next year to save the $12.5.

mavsfan4ever said:

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Ag Natural said:

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Dez wouldn't even get 12 million from any smart team. He can't get open and has average hands at best. I would trade Dez today for Christian Kirk and I haven't even seen Kirk play in the league yet.

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How can you say this when Sammy Watkins and Allen Robinson just signed their deals. I'm not a Dez fan at all. But to say he would definitely not get $12 million is a reach. And we don't save that much cutting him this year. What do we save? $4 million and then we have to find a receiver? I don't see the logic of cutting him.

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Well because I said SMART teams. Paying Watkins or Robinson that much is also dumb.

One major aspect of this is I think Dez is a net negative. The Cowboys spend too much energy and waste too many downs trying to force feed him the ball and keep him happy. If you put another quality player there who is a good route runner with good hands the offense would be more balanced and unpredictable.