it its just 10 witnesses over 2 days, that is a complete sham. with length of this indictment that is several weeks of witnesses, if not months. the fix was in, as shown by the early posting of the indictment yesterdayQuote:
Been running down my rat trails this morning trying to figure out how this all went down yesterday and I am more than a little confused about how long this grand jury, the one handing down a 41 count indictment against 19 defendants, had been hearing evidence and then actually deliberating all of that. Early in the day, the reporting was ten witnesses over two days. Monday and Tuesday. Then the indictment is posted on the docket in the middle of day and then promptly taken dowm. Then all ten witnesses were called yesterday? Grand jury deliberates for how long?
For how long had this presentation been going on? Was it months? Weeks? Ten hours on a Monday?
Pending indictment against Trump in Georgia
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Last: 14 days ago by aggiehawg
Or possibly received a huge payout....zuck bucks, dominion, soros, dnc.BMX Bandit said:to hell with all of Kemp's conservative record!!! he doesn't bend the knee!! must be dem!!!annie88 said:
Kemp is an idiot and a liar.
He might as well be a Democrat.
Not surprising you're defending him.
Corruption does not discriminate between dem v rep or left v right.
How do you know what is in Kemp's heart? I have seen enough regarding his weak-kneed response to the MLB moving the all star game to see he moves with the wind.BMX Bandit said:
i think Trump is being railroaded and this is all a disgrace. i'll happily vote for trump if he is the nominee. that does not change that Kemp is not remotely a democrat and you only hate kemp and pence because they don't lie for trump.
And that has NOTHING to do with Trump.
Kemp has to defend an election system he used to oversee and helped award contracts / bids for, no matter how many weaknesses and vulnerabilities there are
And he was sued immediately after announcing the Dominion contract.oh no said:
Kemp has to defend an election system he used to oversee and helped award contracts / bids for, no matter how many weaknesses and vulnerabilities there are
But there is another question that is not getting much attention. Raffensperger as Sec of State successor to Kemp, agreed to a settlement with Abrams and other activists to change signature verification procedures (virtually eliminating them at all as seen by the abnormally low rejection rate) among other concessions affecting the conduct of elections. With the legislature's knowledge nor approval.
The state of elections in Georgia was a mess due to DREs and the use of the AccuVote system. Bringing in Dominion did not make the situation much better. Sure, there is a piece of paper, that no voter can read because the voter's selections are contained in a QR code and not a filled in oval on a ballot.
J. Walter Weatherman said:Bryanisbest said:
Donald John Trump, the most loved and simultaneously the most hated man in US history. A real political paradoxical phenomenon.
Lol no one should love a politician, especially not someone like Trump.
I see, your hate is ok though.
It's happening elsewhere too
Big governments must "protect democracy" by not allowing crazy right wing extremists guilty of pushing for smaller government and lower taxes to not gain in popularity.
As neoliberal establishments are more and more despised, and thus can no longer control election outcomes, banning popular leaders from running is become an increasingly used tool to "save democracy."
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 14, 2023
We "save democracy" by banning the parties and candidates people like most: https://t.co/gUtlMAcDOL
Big governments must "protect democracy" by not allowing crazy right wing extremists guilty of pushing for smaller government and lower taxes to not gain in popularity.
BMX Bandit said:
i think Trump is being railroaded and this is all a disgrace. i'll happily vote for trump if he is the nominee. that does not change that Kemp is not remotely a democrat and you only hate kemp and pence because they don't lie for trump.
Nope, but good try.
The issues are not mutually exclusive.
I know wolves in sheep's clothing when I see them. Just like Bush 2, he's shown his ass too.
Speaking to CNN about an alleged plot to breach voting systems in Coffee County, Georgia, [Giuliani's attorney, Robert] Costello claimed,
"Rudy Giuliani had nothing to do with this," adding: "You can't attach Rudy Giuliani to Sidney Powell's crackpot idea."
Rolling Stone reports that Powell "has been a major focus of the special counsel's office" in recent weeks, but the man central to the probe is Trump himself. And as the special counsel puts pressure on the co-conspirators, one looming question is whether any of them will turn against the former president.
The outlet cites two sources who say that, over the summer, Trump asked some of his advisers to name who among those questioned by the special counsel's office was the most "vulnerable," a sign that the former president himself could be worried about the continued investigation.
"Rudy Giuliani had nothing to do with this," adding: "You can't attach Rudy Giuliani to Sidney Powell's crackpot idea."
Rolling Stone reports that Powell "has been a major focus of the special counsel's office" in recent weeks, but the man central to the probe is Trump himself. And as the special counsel puts pressure on the co-conspirators, one looming question is whether any of them will turn against the former president.
The outlet cites two sources who say that, over the summer, Trump asked some of his advisers to name who among those questioned by the special counsel's office was the most "vulnerable," a sign that the former president himself could be worried about the continued investigation.
Bryanisbest said:J. Walter Weatherman said:Bryanisbest said:
Donald John Trump, the most loved and simultaneously the most hated man in US history. A real political paradoxical phenomenon.
Lol no one should love a politician, especially not someone like Trump.
I see, your hate is ok though.
I don't hate Trump. I think he's a grifting clown who has set back conservatism by a decade and the sooner he's gone the better, but that's different than having hate for an individual.
And still not nearly as weird as people loving a politician. These people work for us, they should never be idolized.
Okay, I don't like this at all. Houston, we have a problem. A big one.
Same judge that now has the Trump, et. al. indictment. He is presiding over one case that has the evidence of counterfeit ballots and other issues, that he is blocking while also presiding over whether ot not Trump tried to overthrow the election in Georgia?
Further, Judge Amero inexpliably booting this case to McBurney upon reversal and remand and the same Judge McBurney gets the Trump case a few months later? Coincidence? Or planned?
LINKQuote:
ATLANTA, GA, MAY 23, 2023 On December 20, 2022, VoterGA Petitioners in a counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots.
Today, Petitioners, who expected Judge Brian Amero to resume the case, announced a motion to recuse newly assigned Judge Robert McBurney for bias. The inspection was delayed for over two years after Judge Brian Amero's false ruling that Petitioners had no standing. Once Amero's ruling was overturned, he transferred the case to McBurney who accepted it in a surprise move that Petitioners claim will obstruct an inspection. According to Petitioners, McBurney demonstrated a proven track record of notorious bias against election integrity advocates in his 2020 election cases.
They presented a variety of examples showing extrajudicial biased remarks in McBurney's dismissal of a similar case brought by former Senator David Perdue. They also showed bias in McBurney's unprecedented release of private excerpts from the Special Grand Jury report investigation initiated by Fulton District Attorney Fani Willis.
The release affected identifiable witnesses similarly situated to the Petitioners. McBurney was appointed to the bench in 2012 by Governor Nathan Deal after he led an investigation into Deal that was mysteriously closed. As a federal prosecutor, McBurney signed a grand jury subpoena to collect evidence for the criminal investigation against Deal.
Same judge that now has the Trump, et. al. indictment. He is presiding over one case that has the evidence of counterfeit ballots and other issues, that he is blocking while also presiding over whether ot not Trump tried to overthrow the election in Georgia?
Further, Judge Amero inexpliably booting this case to McBurney upon reversal and remand and the same Judge McBurney gets the Trump case a few months later? Coincidence? Or planned?
The second count (and others like it) seems pretty significant.
That is one of the counts of "solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer," and it relates to the effort to create a phony set of electors comprised of state senators.
The idea behind this, as in other states, was to claim in Congress that the state had two sets of electors a situation that would have allowed Congress to choose which set of electors to recognize, had both slates been certified by the state.
This was the key to the January 6 plan to have Mike Pence either push for the ersatz slates or throw both sets of electors out and return the matter to the states.
That was a dangerous idea, legally and politically, but neither Congress nor Pence took the bait.
That is one of the counts of "solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer," and it relates to the effort to create a phony set of electors comprised of state senators.
The idea behind this, as in other states, was to claim in Congress that the state had two sets of electors a situation that would have allowed Congress to choose which set of electors to recognize, had both slates been certified by the state.
This was the key to the January 6 plan to have Mike Pence either push for the ersatz slates or throw both sets of electors out and return the matter to the states.
That was a dangerous idea, legally and politically, but neither Congress nor Pence took the bait.
Oh really?
You think there is a problem?
You think there is a problem?
Conservatism by default is already in a rough spot. It doesn't matter if Ronny or Donny or Jebby is in the hot seat. We're unpopular because our institutions are overrun.
Hmm. So that earlier posting of the indictment as to Trump on the court's docket? The one they said was "fictitious?" It lists the exact same counts as relating to Trump, by number. How could anybody make that up with that specificity?
the_batman26 said:
Conservatism by default is already in a rough spot. It doesn't matter if Ronny or Donny or Jebby is in the hot seat. We're unpopular because our institutions are overrun.
Conservativism is working great in places where people have resisted letting Trump acolytes hijack it. Youngkin, Kemp, DeSantis, Sununu and others like them understand how to sell a winning message that appeals to a majority of voters. Trump, Lake and his other cronies do not.
aggiehawg said:
Okay, I don't like this at all. Houston, we have a problem. A big one.LINKQuote:
ATLANTA, GA, MAY 23, 2023 On December 20, 2022, VoterGA Petitioners in a counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots.
Today, Petitioners, who expected Judge Brian Amero to resume the case, announced a motion to recuse newly assigned Judge Robert McBurney for bias. The inspection was delayed for over two years after Judge Brian Amero's false ruling that Petitioners had no standing. Once Amero's ruling was overturned, he transferred the case to McBurney who accepted it in a surprise move that Petitioners claim will obstruct an inspection. According to Petitioners, McBurney demonstrated a proven track record of notorious bias against election integrity advocates in his 2020 election cases.
They presented a variety of examples showing extrajudicial biased remarks in McBurney's dismissal of a similar case brought by former Senator David Perdue. They also showed bias in McBurney's unprecedented release of private excerpts from the Special Grand Jury report investigation initiated by Fulton District Attorney Fani Willis.
The release affected identifiable witnesses similarly situated to the Petitioners. McBurney was appointed to the bench in 2012 by Governor Nathan Deal after he led an investigation into Deal that was mysteriously closed. As a federal prosecutor, McBurney signed a grand jury subpoena to collect evidence for the criminal investigation against Deal.
Same judge that now has the Trump, et. al. indictment. He is presiding over one case that has the evidence of counterfeit ballots and other issues, that he is blocking while also presiding over whether ot not Trump tried to overthrow the election in Georgia?
Further, Judge Amero inexpliably booting this case to McBurney upon reversal and remand and the same Judge McBurney gets the Trump case a few months later? Coincidence? Or planned?
"But, but, but, literally EVERY judge that has ever addressed election fraud claims has laughed them out of court! De-boooooooonked!!!!"
You mean, judges and courts like this?
My God, I hate liberals. So easy to be smug and arrogant when literally none of our institutions are operating justly.
I have to wonder if there is some overlap between things presented to the "Special Grand Jury" empaneled in 2022? That special grand jury did not have indictment powers, apparently, only to wite a report of their findings.BMX Bandit said:it its just 10 witnesses over 2 days, that is a complete sham. with length of this indictment that is several weeks of witnesses, if not months. the fix was in, as shown by the early posting of the indictment yesterdayQuote:
Been running down my rat trails this morning trying to figure out how this all went down yesterday and I am more than a little confused about how long this grand jury, the one handing down a 41 count indictment against 19 defendants, had been hearing evidence and then actually deliberating all of that. Early in the day, the reporting was ten witnesses over two days. Monday and Tuesday. Then the indictment is posted on the docket in the middle of day and then promptly taken dowm. Then all ten witnesses were called yesterday? Grand jury deliberates for how long?
For how long had this presentation been going on? Was it months? Weeks? Ten hours on a Monday?
So question, are the supposed findings of one grand jury binding upon a new and different grand jury not hearing those same witnesses and seeing the same evidence?
Granted, I have been out of the game for awhile now but this entire procedure is just very suss.
Mr. Block-The-Forensic-Ballot-Audit has thoughts … https://t.co/ouzdf4thZE pic.twitter.com/mIE8sC70a6
— Rasmussen Reports (@Rasmussen_Poll) August 15, 2023
They had evidence but no court would hear it? OMG, Trump needs to stop being so quiet and reserved! He needs to tweet out and share this info with the public. Maybe he could convince Fox News or OANN to air it.Hungry Ojos said:aggiehawg said:
Okay, I don't like this at all. Houston, we have a problem. A big one.LINKQuote:
ATLANTA, GA, MAY 23, 2023 On December 20, 2022, VoterGA Petitioners in a counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots.
Today, Petitioners, who expected Judge Brian Amero to resume the case, announced a motion to recuse newly assigned Judge Robert McBurney for bias. The inspection was delayed for over two years after Judge Brian Amero's false ruling that Petitioners had no standing. Once Amero's ruling was overturned, he transferred the case to McBurney who accepted it in a surprise move that Petitioners claim will obstruct an inspection. According to Petitioners, McBurney demonstrated a proven track record of notorious bias against election integrity advocates in his 2020 election cases.
They presented a variety of examples showing extrajudicial biased remarks in McBurney's dismissal of a similar case brought by former Senator David Perdue. They also showed bias in McBurney's unprecedented release of private excerpts from the Special Grand Jury report investigation initiated by Fulton District Attorney Fani Willis.
The release affected identifiable witnesses similarly situated to the Petitioners. McBurney was appointed to the bench in 2012 by Governor Nathan Deal after he led an investigation into Deal that was mysteriously closed. As a federal prosecutor, McBurney signed a grand jury subpoena to collect evidence for the criminal investigation against Deal.
Same judge that now has the Trump, et. al. indictment. He is presiding over one case that has the evidence of counterfeit ballots and other issues, that he is blocking while also presiding over whether ot not Trump tried to overthrow the election in Georgia?
Further, Judge Amero inexpliably booting this case to McBurney upon reversal and remand and the same Judge McBurney gets the Trump case a few months later? Coincidence? Or planned?
"But, but, but, literally EVERY judge that has ever addressed election fraud claims has laughed them out of court! De-boooooooonked!!!!"
You mean, judges and courts like this?
My God, I hate liberals. So easy to be smug and arrogant when literally none of our institutions are operating justly.
Without the questionable state RICO charge, how would Fulton County have jurisdiction over acts committed in AZ, PA, MI?
Rudy and Jenna attending state legislative committee hearings, with witnesses in tow to testify before those committees is now part of a criminal conspiracy in GA?
Trump as the sitting President speaking with people at DOJ in DC, inside his own Executive Branch is conspracy in GA?
Writing a draft of a victory speech several days before the election is now a conspiracy in GA?
Those are predicate acts? This is vacuous as hell.
Rudy and Jenna attending state legislative committee hearings, with witnesses in tow to testify before those committees is now part of a criminal conspiracy in GA?
Trump as the sitting President speaking with people at DOJ in DC, inside his own Executive Branch is conspracy in GA?
Writing a draft of a victory speech several days before the election is now a conspiracy in GA?
Those are predicate acts? This is vacuous as hell.
GeorgiAg said:They had evidence but no court would hear it? OMG, Trump needs to stop being so quiet and reserved! He needs to tweet out and share this info with the public. Maybe he could convince Fox News or OANN to air it.Hungry Ojos said:aggiehawg said:
Okay, I don't like this at all. Houston, we have a problem. A big one.LINKQuote:
ATLANTA, GA, MAY 23, 2023 On December 20, 2022, VoterGA Petitioners in a counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots.
Today, Petitioners, who expected Judge Brian Amero to resume the case, announced a motion to recuse newly assigned Judge Robert McBurney for bias. The inspection was delayed for over two years after Judge Brian Amero's false ruling that Petitioners had no standing. Once Amero's ruling was overturned, he transferred the case to McBurney who accepted it in a surprise move that Petitioners claim will obstruct an inspection. According to Petitioners, McBurney demonstrated a proven track record of notorious bias against election integrity advocates in his 2020 election cases.
They presented a variety of examples showing extrajudicial biased remarks in McBurney's dismissal of a similar case brought by former Senator David Perdue. They also showed bias in McBurney's unprecedented release of private excerpts from the Special Grand Jury report investigation initiated by Fulton District Attorney Fani Willis.
The release affected identifiable witnesses similarly situated to the Petitioners. McBurney was appointed to the bench in 2012 by Governor Nathan Deal after he led an investigation into Deal that was mysteriously closed. As a federal prosecutor, McBurney signed a grand jury subpoena to collect evidence for the criminal investigation against Deal.
Same judge that now has the Trump, et. al. indictment. He is presiding over one case that has the evidence of counterfeit ballots and other issues, that he is blocking while also presiding over whether ot not Trump tried to overthrow the election in Georgia?
Further, Judge Amero inexpliably booting this case to McBurney upon reversal and remand and the same Judge McBurney gets the Trump case a few months later? Coincidence? Or planned?
"But, but, but, literally EVERY judge that has ever addressed election fraud claims has laughed them out of court! De-boooooooonked!!!!"
You mean, judges and courts like this?
My God, I hate liberals. So easy to be smug and arrogant when literally none of our institutions are operating justly.
You'll have to forgive me for intentionally choosing not to discuss adult matters with someone like yourself.
Even I have to admit that's pretty weak.aggiehawg said:
Without the questionable state RICO charge, how would Fulton County have jurisdiction over acts committed in AZ, PA, MI?
Rudy and Jenna attending state legislative committee hearings, with witnesses in tow to testify before those committees is now part of a criminal conspiracy in GA?
Trump as the sitting President speaking with people at DOJ in DC, inside his own Executive Branch is conspracy in GA?
Writing a draft of a victory speech several days before the election is now a conspiracy in GA?
Those are predicate acts? This is vacuous as hell.
This is the "most dangerous" case for Trump. Not because of facts or law, but jurisdiction and venue. It's hard to connect the dots on how these actions were criminal. Even if convicted and upheld on appeal in state court, SCOTUS probably flips it on a immunity defense.
I'm Gipper
I'm Gipper
Plus much of the stuff alleged her that actually had some tenuous connection to the state of Georgia, they were largely covered in the Smith SCO federal indictment.Im Gipper said:
This is the "most dangerous" case for Trump. Not because of facts or law, but jurisdiction and venue. It's hard to connect the dots on how these actions were criminal. Even if convicted and upheld on appeal, SCOTUS probably flips it on a immunity defense.
Surpemacy clause. Feds take precedence on those.
Tweeting to tell people that a public hearing in Georgia is on and is "Amazing!" is also a conspiracy in GA.aggiehawg said:
Without the questionable state RICO charge, how would Fulton County have jurisdiction over acts committed in AZ, PA, MI?
Rudy and Jenna attending state legislative committee hearings, with witnesses in tow to testify before those committees is now part of a criminal conspiracy in GA?
Trump as the sitting President speaking with people at DOJ in DC, inside his own Executive Branch is conspracy in GA?
Writing a draft of a victory speech several days before the election is now a conspiracy in GA?
Those are predicate acts? This is vacuous as hell.
As is leaving voicemails of unknown content. As is texting and calling people. As it testifying before the GA lege or and other state lege.
Giving speeches on Jan 6th, 2021 in Washington, DC is also a conspiracy in Georgia.
Judge Pirro just covered this on The Five. Smith's case takes precedent.aggiehawg said:Plus much of the stuff alleged her that actually had some tenuous connection to the state of Georgia, they were largely covered in the Smith SCO federal indictment.Im Gipper said:
This is the "most dangerous" case for Trump. Not because of facts or law, but jurisdiction and venue. It's hard to connect the dots on how these actions were criminal. Even if convicted and upheld on appeal, SCOTUS probably flips it on a immunity defense.
Surpemacy clause. Feds take precedence on those.
Most of these options scream snake oil salesman. I'd imagine these options, save DeSantis, would have more widespread appeal. But they don't.
It's dumb as hell. RICO cases are not easy to make, even when there is a prexisting criminal enterprise such as a Mafia crime family.Quote:
Even I have to admit that's pretty weak.
This attempt to sticth together very disparate and completely legal acts from several out of county, nee out of state even falls very flat.The appearances and contacts with other state officials and state legislatures had nothing to do with Georgia. Those were questioning about the various election issues in their respective states.
How does that morph into a RICO violation of another state's law? Procedurally, this indictment really needs to be cleaned up and counts tossed as not within the jursidiction of the Fulton County Superior Courts.
But the judge assigned probably will not do that.
Responding to the Georgia Fulton County Trump Indictment as a local resident pic.twitter.com/ipaWcmDLz9
— Matt Kim (@MattAttack009_) August 15, 2023
aggiehawg said:Plus much of the stuff alleged her that actually had some tenuous connection to the state of Georgia, they were largely covered in the Smith SCO federal indictment.Im Gipper said:
This is the "most dangerous" case for Trump. Not because of facts or law, but jurisdiction and venue. It's hard to connect the dots on how these actions were criminal. Even if convicted and upheld on appeal, SCOTUS probably flips it on a immunity defense.
Surpemacy clause. Feds take precedence on those.
To the extent the actual charges truly are duplicative, the dual sovereign doctrine applies
Wait, the Maui Police Chief was a Las Vegas police captain involved in the aftermath of the mass shooting there?
We live in a simulation...
We live in a simulation...
oh no said:Responding to the Georgia Fulton County Trump Indictment as a local resident pic.twitter.com/ipaWcmDLz9
— Matt Kim (@MattAttack009_) August 15, 2023
Listen to that vile white supremacist!
I brought a civil RICO case once. Very hard to prove. It was a nasty post-divorce case with (relatively) high asset clients. In the divorce, the wife got a bunch of rental homes and a pawn shop among other things. The husband forged 10 year leases on all the residential properties at low rates and leased it to his friends. He got a buddy to set up a pawn shop next door to the other one and on the night of the divorce, they moved all the contents to the new shop. Then that guy filed bankruptcy.aggiehawg said:It's dumb as hell. RICO cases are not easy to make, even when there is a prexisting criminal enterprise such as a Mafia crime family.Quote:
Even I have to admit that's pretty weak.
This attempt to sticth together very disparate and completely legal acts from several out of county, nee out of state even falls very flat.The appearances and contacts with other state officials and state legislatures had nothing to do with Georgia. Those were questioning about the various election issues in their respective states.
How does that morph into a RICO violation of another state's law? Procedurally, this indictment really needs to be cleaned up and counts tossed as not within the jursidiction of the Fulton County Superior Courts.
But the judge assigned probably will not do that.
Those were strong predicate acts. Forgery, theft, etc... All with his friends and new GF as co-conspirators.
Dude was nuts. I carried a sidearm for years to/from the parking lot because of that dude. Finally settled the case, but it sucked.
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