Stlkofta said:

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Enjoy the show OP...



...beats the hell out of having to justify failed economic policy, disastrous domestic policy, and the most corrupt government this nation has seen since the Grant Administration.

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History trivia: It didn't help the convicted victims but there was a `happy' ending for the kangaroo court judge & co.

The mass daylight B-17 bombing on Berlin in February that helped drive Hitler underground took out that judge during a session.

titan said:

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Stlkofta said:

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Enjoy the show OP...



...beats the hell out of having to justify failed economic policy, disastrous domestic policy, and the most corrupt government this nation has seen since the Grant Administration.

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History trivia: It didn't help the convicted victims but there was a `happy' ending for the kangaroo court judge & co.

The mass daylight B-17 bombing on Berlin in February that helped drive Hitler underground took out that judge during a session.

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We will have to wait until November for one of the quislings to get her just reward for joining this fascist charade.

I don't think this investigation is helping Trump. DeSantis, maybe, but Trump comes off as a delusional former President. He should have listened to his AG and let it go.

PabloSerna said:

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I don't think this investigation is helping Trump. DeSantis, maybe, but Trump comes off as a delusional former President. He should have listened to his AG and let it go.

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What investigation?

flat earth huh?

PabloSerna said:

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flat earth huh?

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I'm not the one with my head in the sand.

PabloSerna said:

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I don't think this investigation is helping Trump. DeSantis, maybe, but Trump comes off as a delusional former President. He should have listened to his AG and let it go.

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Probably not helping Democrats much either. It sure doesn't seem to be impacting moderates.

You think former AG Barr does, huh?

His testimony is worth a read.

PabloSerna said:

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You think former AG Barr does, huh?

His testimony is worth a read.

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Can you point me to the extensive investigations completed by the FBI and DOJ? Barr didn't investigate the depths of what occurred in the various voting precincts nor was here there anywhere near long enough to do so. No one has on a national scale. There was not enough time before the inauguration and Democrats are far too corrupt to incriminate theirselves with a proper investigation.

Claiming that the election was free of fraud means you're either lying or uninformed. Saying that there was fraud but we don't know if it was enough to change the outcome is the only accurate answer that either side can claim. I'm sick of liberals and their constant lying. If you're not going to argue in good faith, then have a nice night.

It's been discussed ad nauseum. Not here to fight, just comment.

What is clear to me, is that his closest advisors, staff, and AG did look and came to the same conclusion. Like I said, you may want to read his testimony (in full).

Me, typing here means nothing - I wasn't there. Trump reminds me of powerful people who will not take "no" for an answer. That is part of what makes them great and at the same time is their Achilles heal. So, he turns to these fanatics and yes-men like Eastman, Giuliani, Flynn, to name a few - who give him really bad advice. Then he turns on his team and goes rouge!

Do you think Trump was right to pressure VP Pence to invalidate those states where he (Trump) suspected voter fraud?

Do you think that is what is allowed under the 12th ammendment?

Ags77 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Ags77 said:

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What is the goal ? Trump is no longer in office. You have impeached him twice. Twice it was not agreed to in the Senate. What are you going for now ? Some kind of third impeachment, lol.

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After they faked the Russia and Ukraine narratives but pushed for charges, you're honestly surprised the dems have followed up with this fake narrative that Trump tried to cause an insurrection?

They are simply followed through on what they ran on in 2020.

Their goal is political revenge for him winning the Presidency in the first place. In their minds, he never should have become President. He was illegitimate from day 1 in their minds. Just like GWB in 2000 after Gore/Florida...but on steroids.

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Yes I am suprised. The impeachment efforts , though I thought were always a waste of time, were while he was in office. He is a private citizen after losing to Biden and it is puzzling to me what their intent is now.

He won the election in 2016 and nothing anyone says is going to change that. Nothing the Jan 6 investigation comes up with is going to change that.

Imo, and many others, trump is the best chance for them to win in 2024 , so that shouldn't be a reason for the investigation either.

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You shouldn't be. While you've spent the last 5-6 years goal-tending for the Dems and focusing on Trump's personality over policy...they've continually shown they have a vendetta against him that goes beyond any moral boundaries or elected terms. It was clear then and it's clear now.

Yet the best response you can come up with is "Well...I'm just so surprised! I'm so perplexed! How could they do this?"

aggieforester05 said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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ALERT: Rep Cheney says Trump tried to call a committee witness. Witness didn’t take call. Witness called lawyer Instead. Committee has submitted that info to Dept of Justice

— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) July 12, 2022

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My God! He tried to call an associate! Get out the pitchforks boys

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THIS IS IT!!

NOW WE'VE GOT HIM!!

#AnyDayNow

Rockdoc said:

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OMG, Trump tried to make a phone call! Well it looks like you got him now! Can you impeach him again?

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"It was a perfect phone call"

Gigem314 said:

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Ags77 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Ags77 said:

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What is the goal ? Trump is no longer in office. You have impeached him twice. Twice it was not agreed to in the Senate. What are you going for now ? Some kind of third impeachment, lol.

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After they faked the Russia and Ukraine narratives but pushed for charges, you're honestly surprised the dems have followed up with this fake narrative that Trump tried to cause an insurrection?

They are simply followed through on what they ran on in 2020.

Their goal is political revenge for him winning the Presidency in the first place. In their minds, he never should have become President. He was illegitimate from day 1 in their minds. Just like GWB in 2000 after Gore/Florida...but on steroids.

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Yes I am suprised. The impeachment efforts , though I thought were always a waste of time, were while he was in office. He is a private citizen after losing to Biden and it is puzzling to me what their intent is now.

He won the election in 2016 and nothing anyone says is going to change that. Nothing the Jan 6 investigation comes up with is going to change that.

Imo, and many others, trump is the best chance for them to win in 2024 , so that shouldn't be a reason for the investigation either.

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You shouldn't be. While you've spent the last 5-6 years goal-tending for the Dems and focusing on Trump's personality over policy...they've continually shown they have a vendetta against him that goes beyond any moral boundaries or elected terms. It was clear then and it's clear now.

Yet the best response you can come up with is "Well...I'm just so surprised! I'm so perplexed! How could they do this?"

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What you call personality I probably am calling character.

My point was why now ? He is out of office. We fired him. What is the goal ? Is it to keep him from running ? If so, they aren't thinking straight. Trump might be the only Rep they CAN beat. That's what I'm suprised about. Not the hate for the man, the logic.

It was a weak argument, hence it did not prevail. I don't think it was unreasonable for someone to try a legally untested means of contesting an election outcome to see if the outcome might allow for a closer examination of the voting results. It was long shot in legal terms that failed. The process worked in the end and the results read and certified.

It's not unusual at all for a vague or untested portion of the law to be tested by an outlier or exceptional case and the legal process having to work out a resolution. That's all that happened. Drama and histrionics about an insurrection are totally unwarranted.

Ags77 said:

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What you call personality I probably am calling character.

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Great, so you ignore issues of policy to focus on Trump's character while goal tending for the dems. Got it. I'm sure you were equally outraged at the character of Bill Clinton and Obama and Biden...you just never shared it. Trump character bad...he had to go so we could get the high character of Biden. Sure.

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My point was why now ? He is out of office. We fired him. What is the goal ? Is it to keep him from running ? If so they aren't thinking straight. Trump might be the only Rep they CAN beat. That's what I'm suprised about. Not the hate for the man, the logic.

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You're just now figuring this out? It was pretty clear when they tried to remove him from office twice over false charges of collusion and insurrection.

They are scared of the movement Trump created and want him permanently removed from the public narrative. They want another Romney to run against that won't challenge them.

Unfortunately, events were in a between rock and hard place type situation. Our reportage is so dishonest that there was no solution possible.

The fact was in Jan 2021 we faced what other empires/hegemons call a secession crisis. No solutions can be found in the existing law almost by definition, or you wouldn't have a crisis.

Lets say Trump and company genuinely believed that a hostile take over of the government was in progress and was to follow in the year ahead (we have actually seen much the outlines of just that). IF he believes that, and his followers did, should he not try out of box legal innovations to roadblock it?

Now think on that for a moment.

What happened is Pence was an example of doing the boy scout thing of following the letter of the law. He would have lost the Battle of Trafalgar and not turned a blind eye. Those who run him down are being unfair to him -- it is simply the type he is. But he wouldn't have won Bulge either.

The situation called for creative legal maneuvers. The fact is, someway, somehow -- the whole election balloting needed to be re-counted, and audited. Never mind that it had no precedent. That is what a secession crisis is. Frankly, the best possible thing would have been for the Pentagon to use the doubts to just enforce some kind of "frozen" time-out while things were settled.

Instead, you got a half and half divided country, and because the incoming administration then displayed nothing but malice and imposing extremely foreign, almost alien agendas on America---- in retrospect, Jan6 was a psychological truth that seems to still resonate. A tyranny was coming in.

Gigem314 said:

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Ags77 said:

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What you call personality I probably am calling character.

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Great, so you ignore issues of policy to focus on Trump's character while goal tending for the dems. Got it. I'm sure you were equally outraged at the character of Bill Clinton and Obama and Biden...you just never shared it. Trump character bad...he had to go so we could get the high character of Biden. Sure.

Quote:

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My point was why now ? He is out of office. We fired him. What is the goal ? Is it to keep him from running ? If so they aren't thinking straight. Trump might be the only Rep they CAN beat. That's what I'm suprised about. Not the hate for the man, the logic.

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You're just now figuring this out? It was pretty clear when they tried to remove him from office twice over false charges of collusion and insurrection.

They are scared of the movement Trump created and want him permanently removed from the public narrative. They want another Romney to run against that won't challenge them.

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I don't disagree on most of your points, but they should WANT to run against trump. He might be the ONLY THING that can energize their turnout in 2024.

Oh, and I could never vote for Clinton because of his character either. And he made a decent president, imo.

You are right about that. But they are also evil and vindictive, not just opposition. Opposition would have the sense to realize what you say.

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I don't disagree on most of your points, but they should WANT to run against trump. He might be the ONLY THING that can energize their turnout in 2024.

Oh, and I could never vote for Clinton because of his character either. And he made a decent president, imo.

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No, they should want to run against a Liz Cheney or Romney type that has zero ability to mobilize voters and only halfway agrees with their party on many issues. That's how Obama and Clinton got second terms.

Put your Trump hatred aside and realize he's a very dynamic personality that will still garner a lot of support, particularly from working class voters and those who don't vote based on...character.

They will also start attacking the character of DeSantis at some point as well. And I'm sure people like you will buy into it.

Hate always overcomes logic, that's why it needs to be avoided at all cost.

PabloSerna said:

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Do you think Trump was right to pressure VP Pence to invalidate those states where he (Trump) suspected voter fraud?

Do you think that is what is allowed under the 12th ammendment?

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I know you weren't asking me, but I believe there was some room for interpretation here. Not as far as Eastman was taking it, but at least to determine not to include certifications. The vice president is not supposed to be either a rubber stamp, nor the final say. There are mechanisms in place for objecting, and further mechanisms for the houses of congress to weigh in and in the event of a split, the governor's certification is the tie breaker.

In the end, I think this was only ever going to be symbolic because there was simply not enough time remaining. The clock, in essence, had expired and unless what I have read, Eastman's opinion on the matter was just too far. The VP can include or exclude, he/she cannot switch the count from one candidate to the other.

So to answer your question, I think properly formed, objections for including those States certifications has merit, yes. The advice Trump was getting from the likes of Eastman, not so much.

Pence was going to do his duty. I think this was becoming increasingly clear from early December '21. It would seem that nothing short of a forced entry into the Capitol to stop the count was in order.

Gigem314 said:

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Quote:

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I don't disagree on most of your points, but they should WANT to run against trump. He might be the ONLY THING that can energize their turnout in 2024.

Oh, and I could never vote for Clinton because of his character either. And he made a decent president, imo.

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No, they should want to run against a Liz Cheney or Romney type that has zero ability to mobilize voters and only halfway agrees with their party on many issues. That's how Obama and Clinton got second terms.

Put your Trump hatred aside and realize he's a very dynamic personality that will still garner a lot of support, particularly from working class voters and those who don't vote based on...character.

They will also start attacking the character of DeSantis at some point as well. And I'm sure people like you will buy into it.

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First, I don't hate Trump. I don't like who he is nor his lack of human decency, but I don't have hate for him. I didn't need anyone to attack trumps lack of character, lol. His whole life displays it.

I couldn't ever vote for him. That's different from hating. I prayed for him regularly while he was in office. As I do for all our leaders.

Of course I recognize Trump has plenty of loyal supporters. Some because of his policies ( which some I agreed with too) and some because his personality , as you call it, attracts some people. I have many friends that were big Trump guys.

And as far as DeSantis goes, he seems like a high character,
good family man. I won't care about any attacks coming his way because I don't see evidence in his life.

Here's my message to the Jan. 6th committee and to this thread:

PabloSerna said:

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Pence was going to do his duty. I think this was becoming increasingly clear from early December '21. It would seem that nothing short of a forced entry into the Capitol to stop the count was in order.

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He did only that though. It was a secession crisis and he was not up to it.

And the one thing he did do pretty wrong, was his speech for the GA elections did not imply that -- he actually led a false path. He should have openly backed McConnel if he was going to do that, and Jan6 might not occur because you don't have the `illusion' of something that can be done.

Remember, we never got to see Ted Cruz's brilliance unfold that day--we will never know if he and his allies might have found the right argument. That is what the stupidity of Jan6 most scuttled--- the chance for Republicans to have the matter to actually be seen in its details -- on live TV no less. Utterly ruined.

BQ78 said:

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Hate always overcomes logic, that's why it needs to be avoided at all cost.

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Amen

PabloSerna said:

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You think former AG Barr does, huh?

His testimony is worth a read.

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Barr claims Epstein actually killed himself. The same Epstein that worked for Barr's dad.

Quote:

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He did only that though. It was a secession crisis and he was not up to it.

And the one thing he did do pretty wrong, was his speech for the GA elections did not imply that -- he actually led a false path. He should have openly backed McConnel if he was going to do that, and Jan6 might not occur because you don't have the `illusion' of something that can be done.

Remember, we never got to see Ted Cruz's brilliance unfold that day--we will never know if he and his allies might have found the right argument. That is what the stupidity of Jan6 most scuttled--- the chance for Republicans to have the matter to actually be seen in its details -- on live TV no less. Utterly ruined.

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Agree. Pence said just the opposite during campaign appearances in GA just days before Jan 6th.

And the question of the ability of the VP to choose whether or not to include vote certifications (as opposed to switching the results from Biden to Trump) is a valid one due to the Electoral College.

In 2000, it all came down to Florida. Don't count those electors, neither Gore nor Bush get to 270. The 12th kicks in and it goes to the House delegations by state. Gore could do the math and knew such a procedure would not change the outcome due to the GOP advantage. And in another twist of fate, under the ECA, if objections to the Florida electors resulted in a split between the House and Senate, it would be up to Jeb Bush to recertify Florida's slate of electors and Gore still loses.

Change those two facts and the election and certification of it on January 6th, 2001 has a different result.

Speaking of those fake electors, that appears to be whom Merrick has his eyes on:

NEWS: Jan. 6 committee chairman Bennie Thompson says initial discussions with DOJ about sharing evidence have focused squarely on the issue of false electors, particularly the members of that group that the committee has interviewed.

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) July 13, 2022

Put in even simpler terms, the comparison to Nelson is that the Trump team needed you up there, not who they had or Pence deciding it.

Ags77 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Quote:

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….

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….

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First, I don't hate Trump. I don't like who he is nor his lack of human decency

• The Magnanimous Donald J Trump: Amazing Acts of Kindness from Our 45th President Paperback December 22, 2017 by Dr Michael H Yeager (Author)
• MEDIA IGNORES Trump's Random Acts Of Kindness...The Latest From Facebook Is a Doozy!
• Trump's 'Acts of Random Kindness' Slip Out Media Is Silent On Donald's Generous Deeds
• Trump gave $10,000 to a bus driver who saved a suicidal woman, gave $25,000 to a U.S. marine sergeant arrested and detained in Mexico, and allowed an orthodox Jewish family to use his private jet in order to seek urgent medical treatment for their young son.
• .Trump's "Acts of Kindness" that few people know
• 
• There are plenty more, you are wrong about President Trump's compassion.

, but I don't have hate for him. I didn't need anyone to attack trumps lack of character, lol. His whole life displays it.

I couldn't ever vote for him. That's different from hating. I prayed for him regularly while he was in office. As I do for all our leaders.

Of course I recognize Trump has plenty of loyal supporters. Some because of his policies ( which some I agreed with too) and some because his personality , as you call it, attracts some people. I have many friends that were big Trump guys.

And as far as DeSantis goes, he seems like a high character,
good family man. I won't care about any attacks coming his way because I don't see evidence in his life.

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President Trump is narcissistic and speaks his mind freely(a BIG NO NO in the eyes of the politicians), and makes off the cuff comments causing him trouble. But he has compassion. He may have done something indecent in your eyes but much of those accusations have proven either false or over the top exaggerations.

And he has done nothing compared to the current President
Creepy Biden

Biden's daughter's diary

• https://nationalfile.com/full-release-ashley-biden-diary-reveals-child-sex-trauma-drug-abuse-resentment-for-joe-whistleblower/

Biden swimming naked in front of female Secret Service agents:

• https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/07/31/claim-sometmes-joe-biden-goes-skinny-dipping-offending-secret-service-agents-n2032819

Biden sexual harassment allegations:

• https://www.thecut.com/2020/04/joe-biden-accuser-accusations-allegations.html

Biden plagiarism

• https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/07/23/joe_bidens_plagiarism_problem_143788.html#!

Biden Quid Pro Quo

• https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/05/19/leaked-audio-of-joe-bidens-ukraine-quid-pro-quo-call-destroys-msm-narrative-about-shokins-ouster-n407354

Biden lies about education

• https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/that-time-joe-biden-lied-about-his-academic-credentials/

• https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4821169/user-clip-joe-biden-lies-college-high-school-record

Biden lies a lot

• https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/24/heres-the-full-list-of-every-lie-joe-biden-has-told-as-president-part-sixty/