*****Official Jan 6th Committee Hearing Thread*****
152,626 Views |
2038 Replies |
Last: 8 mo ago by Funky Winkerbean
Has this joke of a planned attack died yet? No one believes any of this nonsense … so dumb and no one even cares about this
REO Speedwagon set to testify next:
Are you saying there was NO planning by any group or are you saying that there was no conspiracy by such groups, such as the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, with the Trump administration or members of Congress?
LOL at the Derpy Derps thinking this is a big deal.
I don't speak for fullback, but I will weigh in here.
In short, the left did what the left does: embellish, exaggerate, lie, and sensationalize in order to pander to their base and the weak minded. We saw it with the Steele Dossier and we saw it with Adam Schiff's fabricated transcript of the Ukraine call. It has been their modus operandi for some time and not limited to Trump. I don't think the folks on F16 are too young to remember Rathergate.
They over-played their hand. Had they stopped at trespassing, violence, and destruction of property, they would have had a compelling message. Use his tweets and the subsequent behavior to point to the danger of inciting mobs. That would have had a better chance to resonate with independents and even a number of folks on the right. To state that this was a coordinated insurrection going all the way to the President is a just a blatant fabrication.
It is insane what has been going on and disturbing so many people aren't incensed. We have people being denied their constitutional rights and due process. People are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in this country. Being held without bail for trespassing or destruction of property simply because the left is trying to score political points should scare everyone. This is what the citizens should be laser focused on. Those responsible for this charade should face serious consequences, but likely never will.
- was there coordination? Yes. There were a number of analogous groups coordinating protests within their own rank and file
- were those groups in coordination with each other? Maybe, to some degree, but I haven't seen evidence everyone there was following a central, pre-defined script.
- was this coordinated with/through the Whitehouse, or Trump? No. If there was, it would be clear and traceable. That said, I 100% believe Trump wanted to see large protests standing up against the election results.
In short, the left did what the left does: embellish, exaggerate, lie, and sensationalize in order to pander to their base and the weak minded. We saw it with the Steele Dossier and we saw it with Adam Schiff's fabricated transcript of the Ukraine call. It has been their modus operandi for some time and not limited to Trump. I don't think the folks on F16 are too young to remember Rathergate.
They over-played their hand. Had they stopped at trespassing, violence, and destruction of property, they would have had a compelling message. Use his tweets and the subsequent behavior to point to the danger of inciting mobs. That would have had a better chance to resonate with independents and even a number of folks on the right. To state that this was a coordinated insurrection going all the way to the President is a just a blatant fabrication.
It is insane what has been going on and disturbing so many people aren't incensed. We have people being denied their constitutional rights and due process. People are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in this country. Being held without bail for trespassing or destruction of property simply because the left is trying to score political points should scare everyone. This is what the citizens should be laser focused on. Those responsible for this charade should face serious consequences, but likely never will.
That is a good post, who is being held without bail that is just charged with trespassing or property destruction?
My problem with the whole Jan 6 investigation thing is WHY ?
What is the goal ? Trump is no longer in office. You have impeached him twice. Twice it was not agreed to in the Senate. What are you going for now ? Some kind of third impeachment, lol.
Is the goal to send him to prison ? There is ZERO chance of that happening and they have to know that.
Is it to embarrass him ? That's pretty crappy and a complete waste of time. If he isn't embarrassed already from losing to what he himself said was the worst candidate in history, I don't think he can be embarrassed.
Is it to make him ineligible to run again ? Again, that's pretty sorry. What outcome would make him ineligible anyway ? Why would you be so hell bent on running against someone else. Imo, he is the ONLY Republican candidate they would have even a chinaman's chance at beating in 2024.
As a Never Trumper, I won't vote for him, but he deserves a chance to run again if he is the Rep nominee. If you don't think he is someone you can vote for, don't vote for him. But those that do want to vote for him should have their chance if he is on the ballot.
What is the goal ? Trump is no longer in office. You have impeached him twice. Twice it was not agreed to in the Senate. What are you going for now ? Some kind of third impeachment, lol.
Is the goal to send him to prison ? There is ZERO chance of that happening and they have to know that.
Is it to embarrass him ? That's pretty crappy and a complete waste of time. If he isn't embarrassed already from losing to what he himself said was the worst candidate in history, I don't think he can be embarrassed.
Is it to make him ineligible to run again ? Again, that's pretty sorry. What outcome would make him ineligible anyway ? Why would you be so hell bent on running against someone else. Imo, he is the ONLY Republican candidate they would have even a chinaman's chance at beating in 2024.
As a Never Trumper, I won't vote for him, but he deserves a chance to run again if he is the Rep nominee. If you don't think he is someone you can vote for, don't vote for him. But those that do want to vote for him should have their chance if he is on the ballot.
I would say the most organized group that day was the FBI.
Stories have been leaking out for months from lawyers and family members who have finally been able to speak with people locked up. There is even an article I read this morning citing a couple of attorneys who are going on record to say evidence is being misrepresented to levy more serious charges against some. Essentially painting a picture of incarcerate, detain indefinitely, and then dig for crimes.Im Gipper said:
That is a good post, who is being held without bail that is just charged with trespassing or property destruction?
.....and without any dissenting voices on the committee, the public is kept in the dark and those charged cannot get blind/fair justice. Real third world level behavior by our elected officials.
THIS.
So true. Still have the image in mind of the CBS tower arranged like Sauron's evil eye and and tower crumbling with `Rather' written over it, along with `Rather Lied, People Died" in mockery of the Democrats demonizing of the Bush admin in 2004.
MSM has been trash since Y2K. They are responsible for the bitterness of the 2000 election.
They still don't understand that more than any other thing generating animosity right now, it is their partisan gaslighting.
Correct. Not only would it be clear and traceable, it would have succeeded. They did have the numbers, leverage and ability. Had it been a genuinely planned and armed insurrection, or even just directed riot. It didn't even meet that criteria. People were made enough then (even more now) that if Trump had wanted to arrange such a thing, he easily could have. What comes across so strongly that day is the NON planning. As BQ78 pointed out, the most organization seems to be among the agitators planted to incite the crowd and hijack it that appear to be not only FBI, but also elements of Antifa and other black bloc groups. And there is the bombs put to be found at the party headquarters that Catherine Herridge almost alone has covered that are so obviously separate from the Trump attendeesQuote:
- was this coordinated with/through the Whitehouse, or Trump? No. If there was, it would be clear and traceable. That said, I 100% believe Trump wanted to see large protests standing up against the election results.
Quote:
In short, the left did what the left does: embellish, exaggerate, lie, and sensationalize in order to pander to their base and the weak minded. We saw it with the Steele Dossier and we saw it with Adam Schiff's fabricated transcript of the Ukraine call. It has been their modus operandi for some time and not limited to Trump. I don't think the folks on F16 are too young to remember Rathergate.
So true. Still have the image in mind of the CBS tower arranged like Sauron's evil eye and and tower crumbling with `Rather' written over it, along with `Rather Lied, People Died" in mockery of the Democrats demonizing of the Bush admin in 2004.
MSM has been trash since Y2K. They are responsible for the bitterness of the 2000 election.
They still don't understand that more than any other thing generating animosity right now, it is their partisan gaslighting.
....and all the while, the economy is circling the drain, for what? The irony to all of this may very well be their attempt to shame and ruin Trump may actually help him get a 2nd term....and remove them from power in the House and Senate
The more you dig into the "insurrection" narrative, the quicker it crumbles. I cannot remember if it was in this thread or another, but I did some further research.
If we are to assume an "insurrection" was taking place, you need an armed people. Of the over 800 arrested on, or since, January 6th 85 were charged with "using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer." Only 12/13 actually involved charges related to firearms and almost all of those were not arrested being armed at the Capitol on January 6th:
One guy was a DEA special agent carrying his service weapon on Capitol grounds off-duty. Two others were a 65 year old man and a 70 year old man who had guns in their cars one block and 1/2 mile away respectively, while they were protesting.
When you read through everything, you will find out, this "coordinated insurrection" ended up with one, yes one single individual with a handgun and 12 bullets arrested on January 6th outside the Capitol visitor center after curfew. Even if you assume all 13 of those individuals were in coordination with each other, which they weren't, and were on Capitol grounds January 6th during the protests, which they weren't, it is still a HUGE STRETCH to label this as an "insurrection coordinated with direct or indirect involvement through the White House/Trump."
Article 1
Article 2
If we are to assume an "insurrection" was taking place, you need an armed people. Of the over 800 arrested on, or since, January 6th 85 were charged with "using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer." Only 12/13 actually involved charges related to firearms and almost all of those were not arrested being armed at the Capitol on January 6th:
- Henry "Enrique" Tarrio, 36, of Florida, was arrested at a Washington, D.C., hotel on January 4, 2021 was in possession of firearms in the hotel
- Harlen Boen, 48, of Colorado was arrested near Freedom Plaza on January 5, 2021 in possession of a firearm
- Thomas Gronek, 46, of North Carolina was arrested half a mile from the Capitol on January 5, 2021
- Leslie Grimes, 25, of Michigan, was arrested a few blocks from the White House on January 6, 2021
- Mark Andrew Mazza, 56, of Indiana was arrested in Shelbyville on November 17, 2021
- Timothy Wolfe, 32, of Virginia was arrested a few blocks from the White House on January 6, 2021
- Julian Snell, 40, of Virginia, was arrested a few blocks from the White House on January 6, 2021
One guy was a DEA special agent carrying his service weapon on Capitol grounds off-duty. Two others were a 65 year old man and a 70 year old man who had guns in their cars one block and 1/2 mile away respectively, while they were protesting.
When you read through everything, you will find out, this "coordinated insurrection" ended up with one, yes one single individual with a handgun and 12 bullets arrested on January 6th outside the Capitol visitor center after curfew. Even if you assume all 13 of those individuals were in coordination with each other, which they weren't, and were on Capitol grounds January 6th during the protests, which they weren't, it is still a HUGE STRETCH to label this as an "insurrection coordinated with direct or indirect involvement through the White House/Trump."
Article 1
Article 2
NOW AT LAST the Democrats, Rinos, and Mainstream Meda Newsspeaker goofs can see what a real insurrection looks like, and its minimum criteria.
Sri Lanka has fallen. | TexAgs
They need to play that on the big screens at the kangaroo session.
— Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) July 10, 2022
Bannon's lawyers: "Mr. Bannon is willing to, and indeed prefers, to testify at your PUBLIC hearing."
— Whispers of Dementia (@mgEyesOpen) July 10, 2022
Brilliant move by Bannon & Trump. https://t.co/34vW5ALW9H
Team crazy.... lol
We fixed the keg
Thanks for the information. This entire Jan 6th inquisition is a complete and total sham.
Thanks for the information. This entire Jan 6th inquisition is a complete and total sham.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
not a "total sham" - but will have the desired effect.
Just another example of political/media hyperbole and spin running amok. Based on the FISA abuses, Steele Dossier, Impeachments, bogus Ukraine transcript, Michael Flynn, etc etc etc. It is insane to think any of the information coming out of these one-sided hearings at face value.
In the end, I believe you had thousands of people angry because they believe there was enough evidence of wrong doing that warranted investigation and were ignored. Of those, it seems ~800 crossed the line of peacefully protesting into trespassing, damaging property, or other unlawful activity. Then a smaller subset of those, crossed a further line by threatening or assaulting individuals.
In all of those numbers, there were 13 people arrested as armed with most of those either being arrested before January 6th, not at the capitol, or after the fact where it is unclear if the weapons they owned were in their possession on Capitol grounds. In fact only two people were actually charged with being in possession on the grounds, on January 6th with a handgun. One was an off duty DEA agent with his badge and service weapon and the other was after curfew.
There wasn't an armed insurrection. There wasn't a coordinated coop. Those are just the facts on the ground. If there were evidence to the contrary, we would have seen it by now as it would be on every web page, every TV channel, and in every paper clearly presented. They wouldn't be bringing in some unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness who took hours to prove was not credible.
In the end, I believe you had thousands of people angry because they believe there was enough evidence of wrong doing that warranted investigation and were ignored. Of those, it seems ~800 crossed the line of peacefully protesting into trespassing, damaging property, or other unlawful activity. Then a smaller subset of those, crossed a further line by threatening or assaulting individuals.
In all of those numbers, there were 13 people arrested as armed with most of those either being arrested before January 6th, not at the capitol, or after the fact where it is unclear if the weapons they owned were in their possession on Capitol grounds. In fact only two people were actually charged with being in possession on the grounds, on January 6th with a handgun. One was an off duty DEA agent with his badge and service weapon and the other was after curfew.
There wasn't an armed insurrection. There wasn't a coordinated coop. Those are just the facts on the ground. If there were evidence to the contrary, we would have seen it by now as it would be on every web page, every TV channel, and in every paper clearly presented. They wouldn't be bringing in some unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness who took hours to prove was not credible.
And just hearing them go on and on ---- Need one of these for the Iraq War context.
After they faked the Russia and Ukraine narratives but pushed for charges, you're honestly surprised the dems have followed up with this fake narrative that Trump tried to cause an insurrection?Ags77 said:
What is the goal ? Trump is no longer in office. You have impeached him twice. Twice it was not agreed to in the Senate. What are you going for now ? Some kind of third impeachment, lol.
They are simply followed through on what they ran on in 2020.
Their goal is political revenge for him winning the Presidency in the first place. In their minds, he never should have become President. He was illegitimate from day 1 in their minds. Just like GWB in 2000 after Gore/Florida...but on steroids.
We fixed the keg said:
Just another example of political/media hyperbole and spin running amok. Based on the FISA abuses, Steele Dossier, Impeachments, bogus Ukraine transcript, Michael Flynn, etc etc etc. It is insane to think any of the information coming out of these one-sided hearings at face value.
In the end, I believe you had thousands of people angry because they believe there was enough evidence of wrong doing that warranted investigation and were ignored. Of those, it seems ~800 crossed the line of peacefully protesting into trespassing, damaging property, or other unlawful activity. Then a smaller subset of those, crossed a further line by threatening or assaulting individuals.
In all of those numbers, there were 13 people arrested as armed with most of those either being arrested before January 6th, not at the capitol, or after the fact where it is unclear if the weapons they owned were in their possession on Capitol grounds. In fact only two people were actually charged with being in possession on the grounds, on January 6th with a handgun. One was an off duty DEA agent with his badge and service weapon and the other was after curfew.
There wasn't an armed insurrection. There wasn't a coordinated coop. Those are just the facts on the ground. If there were evidence to the contrary, we would have seen it by now as it would be on every web page, every TV channel, and in every paper clearly presented. They wouldn't be bringing in some unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness who took hours to prove was not credible.
This is really a joke but it pisses me off because they're making a big deal about something that's really not that big of a deal. We had people who went into the capital taking selfies and doing funny little Memes and stuff get back to me when there was a real insurrection where they storm in the capital with guns and taking hostages.
Gigem314 said:After they faked the Russia and Ukraine narratives but pushed for charges, you're honestly surprised the dems have followed up with this fake narrative that Trump tried to cause an insurrection?Ags77 said:
What is the goal ? Trump is no longer in office. You have impeached him twice. Twice it was not agreed to in the Senate. What are you going for now ? Some kind of third impeachment, lol.
They are simply followed through on what they ran on in 2020.
Their goal is political revenge for him winning the Presidency in the first place. In their minds, he never should have become President. He was illegitimate from day 1 in their minds. Just like GWB in 2000 after Gore/Florida...but on steroids.
Yes I am suprised. The impeachment efforts , though I thought were always a waste of time, were while he was in office. He is a private citizen after losing to Biden and it is puzzling to me what their intent is now.
He won the election in 2016 and nothing anyone says is going to change that. Nothing the Jan 6 investigation comes up with is going to change that.
Imo, and many others, trump is the best chance for them to win in 2024 , so that shouldn't be a reason for the investigation either.
Most devasting of all, is they forget that as corrupt and bent Left as the FBI is these days, even they concluded it was NOT an insurrection. The intial conclusion is going to be more trustworthy than any forced out by Pelosi-Cheney if the FBI is asked now.
Gave a couple of Dems lots of face time on TV as they made speeches and asked questions. Guessing that was a big part of todays hearing was to make those two Dems look like real leaders to their constituents back home. Guessing their campaign contributions were down.
Found it interesting that they seemed very interested in a proposed E.O. that was never signed or implemented by Trump. Apparently it was a bad idea and not done. Who cares ? ? ? I also think that they actually discussed a Trump meetings after 6 Jan. How is a meeting after the so called event in question relevant to something that happened days before.
Overall underwhelming and had it on as background noise. Maybe I missed the smoking gun moment.
Found it interesting that they seemed very interested in a proposed E.O. that was never signed or implemented by Trump. Apparently it was a bad idea and not done. Who cares ? ? ? I also think that they actually discussed a Trump meetings after 6 Jan. How is a meeting after the so called event in question relevant to something that happened days before.
Overall underwhelming and had it on as background noise. Maybe I missed the smoking gun moment.
...and where is the American Civil Liberties Union because they sure aren't fighting for American's who have/are being denied their civil liberties?Quote:
This is really a joke but it pisses me off because they're making a big deal about something that's really not that big of a deal. We had people who went into the capital taking selfies and doing funny little Memes and stuff get back to me when there was a real insurrection where they storm in the capital with guns and taking hostages.
For all those people looking to dismantle the Senate and Electoral College. Pack the Supreme Court, or like in an article today, abolish it all together and cede the power to the UN (absolutely insane). This committee is EXACTLY why we were founded as a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy. This is what you get when you have majority/mob rule. Government agencies, politicians, and bureaucracy become weapons to enact vengeance and retribution against political enemies.
Quote:
Overall underwhelming and had it on as background noise. Maybe I missed the smoking gun moment.
You had it on. Period. Thats the smoking gun.
LegalDrugPusher said:We fixed the keg said:
Just another example of political/media hyperbole and spin running amok. Based on the FISA abuses, Steele Dossier, Impeachments, bogus Ukraine transcript, Michael Flynn, etc etc etc. It is insane to think any of the information coming out of these one-sided hearings at face value.
In the end, I believe you had thousands of people angry because they believe there was enough evidence of wrong doing that warranted investigation and were ignored. Of those, it seems ~800 crossed the line of peacefully protesting into trespassing, damaging property, or other unlawful activity. Then a smaller subset of those, crossed a further line by threatening or assaulting individuals.
In all of those numbers, there were 13 people arrested as armed with most of those either being arrested before January 6th, not at the capitol, or after the fact where it is unclear if the weapons they owned were in their possession on Capitol grounds. In fact only two people were actually charged with being in possession on the grounds, on January 6th with a handgun. One was an off duty DEA agent with his badge and service weapon and the other was after curfew.
There wasn't an armed insurrection. There wasn't a coordinated coop. Those are just the facts on the ground. If there were evidence to the contrary, we would have seen it by now as it would be on every web page, every TV channel, and in every paper clearly presented. They wouldn't be bringing in some unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness who took hours to prove was not credible.
This is really a joke but it pisses me off because they're making a big deal about something that's really not that big of a deal. We had people who went into the capital taking selfies and doing funny little Memes and stuff get back to me when there was a real insurrection where they storm in the capital with guns and taking hostages.
Manhattan said:LegalDrugPusher said:We fixed the keg said:
Just another example of political/media hyperbole and spin running amok. Based on the FISA abuses, Steele Dossier, Impeachments, bogus Ukraine transcript, Michael Flynn, etc etc etc. It is insane to think any of the information coming out of these one-sided hearings at face value.
In the end, I believe you had thousands of people angry because they believe there was enough evidence of wrong doing that warranted investigation and were ignored. Of those, it seems ~800 crossed the line of peacefully protesting into trespassing, damaging property, or other unlawful activity. Then a smaller subset of those, crossed a further line by threatening or assaulting individuals.
In all of those numbers, there were 13 people arrested as armed with most of those either being arrested before January 6th, not at the capitol, or after the fact where it is unclear if the weapons they owned were in their possession on Capitol grounds. In fact only two people were actually charged with being in possession on the grounds, on January 6th with a handgun. One was an off duty DEA agent with his badge and service weapon and the other was after curfew.
There wasn't an armed insurrection. There wasn't a coordinated coop. Those are just the facts on the ground. If there were evidence to the contrary, we would have seen it by now as it would be on every web page, every TV channel, and in every paper clearly presented. They wouldn't be bringing in some unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness who took hours to prove was not credible.
This is really a joke but it pisses me off because they're making a big deal about something that's really not that big of a deal. We had people who went into the capital taking selfies and doing funny little Memes and stuff get back to me when there was a real insurrection where they storm in the capital with guns and taking hostages.
You failed to show me in the video where guns rifles grenades bazookas were used and hostages were taken
Manhattan did you really think that video was gonna be a Gotcha on me ?
Good job, you found and posted a 5 minute edited piece of propaganda as proof of what? Proof of what was in my original statement? That ~800 people crossed a line.Quote:
Of those, it seems ~800 crossed the line of peacefully protesting into trespassing, damaging property, or other unlawful activity. Then a smaller subset of those, crossed a further line by threatening or assaulting individuals.
Great, still not an insurrection.
ETA: We are having committee meetings and destroying people due process under the guise of a government coop when this is NOT that and by the same people who have ignored the same or worse from Antifa. This is nothing more than political theater at this point
Just cant get enough of the Donald, I understand, he was an amazing leader and will be the next President of the USA.Carolin_Gallego said:Most people committing crimes at the Capitol were arrested after the event because Capitol Police were clearly outnumbered and overwhelmed, and this unquestionably contradicts the narrative 'people must have not been armed if they were not arrested at the Capitol with arms'. The first priority was for Congress to certify the election that Trump's supporters were trying to prevent. Capitol Police were doing their best to mitigate the damage after people busted through the outside barriers, before arriving at the Capitol steps, doors, or illegally entering the Capitol, and before the Nation Guard arrived hours later and cleared the Capitol grounds.We fixed the keg said:
There wasn't an armed insurrection. There wasn't a coordinated coop. Those are just the facts on the ground. If there were evidence to the contrary, we would have seen it by now as it would be on every web page, every TV channel, and in every paper clearly presented. They wouldn't be bringing in some unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness who took hours to prove was not credible.
Armed means more than just firearms, as we all know. We have documented evidence that the Secret Service found arms on people going to Trump's rally, and Trump knew of this. We have video evidence of people using arms against Capitol Police.
Here is video evidence of armed people fighting with Capitol PD.
As far as a coordinated coup goes, the committee has provided substantial evidence establishing the following:
President Trump engaged in a massive effort to knowingly spread false and fraudulent information to the American public claiming the 2020 election was stolen from him.
President Trump planned to replace the Acting Attorney General, so that the Department of Justice would support his fake election claims.
President Trump pressured Vice President Pence to refuse to count certified electoral votes in violation of the US Constitution and the law.
President Trump pressured state election officials, and state legislators, to change election results. President Trump instructed his legal team and other Trump associates to have Republicans create false electoral slates and transmit those slates to Congress and the National Archives.
President Trump summoned and assembled a mob in Washington and directed them to march on the US Capitol to stop the peaceful transfer of power, knowing they were armed . Trump also said in his speech that he would join the mob at the Capitol and we have testimony that his Secret Service detail would not allow him to attend.
President Trump not only ignored multiple pleas for assistance, failed to take immediate action to stop the violence, failed to instruct his supporters to leave the Capitol, but he sent out a tweet targeted the U.S. Vice President when he knew people in the Capitol were threatening his life.
The idea that the evidence is limited to one unvetted, second hand, hearsay witness is as bizarre and far-fetched as the notion that, in this day and age, the evidence would be clearly presented on every webpage, TV channel and newspaper.
You know if you guys would just stop replying this thread would disappear.
Interesting. They changed the order of some of the events in that video. Wonder why? It doesn't hurt or help their narrative but throws a "huh?" element into it.
Then they just let things stand in edited splice--like the guy in the hat with fur flaps that is punching at 2:30 mark -- but that is the confirmed pair of provocateurs attacking the Speaker's Lobby --one there number was Sullivan filming. A Japanese analysis went into this later that month.
Then the scene after the gallows with the guy saying making a list is after they heard Babbit was cut down. They were distraught about it.
All this context matters.
What they nailed right is calling it a riot at 1349 (1:49). That's about right. I would peg it earlier than that but its close enough. Sullivan's gang mounts the west terrace about 2:05.