quote:last episode of season 5 she saw her face on the guy that drank the poison before she went blind.
How was he wearing Arya's face if she is still alive? We've been shown the actual face is removed from the dead.
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Last: 7 yr ago by Rex Racer
It was Arya.
He would've had to kill Arya to take her face. And they aren't shape shifters when they take faces.
He would've had to kill Arya to take her face. And they aren't shape shifters when they take faces.
quote:It is one thing for Arya to hallucinate during some kind of spiritual experience inside the temple. It is entirely another for Jaqen to somehow morph into Arya to fool the waif. Didn't happen.quote:last episode of season 5 she saw her face on the guy that drank the poison before she went blind.
How was he wearing Arya's face if she is still alive? We've been shown the actual face is removed from the dead.
What indication has there been that it was a hallucination?
From what we've seen, shouldn't we assume that the face changing is more magic-based than actual physical faces being worn?
From what we've seen, shouldn't we assume that the face changing is more magic-based than actual physical faces being worn?
quote:I think the opposite. We have seen them literally cutting the faces off of the dead.
What indication has there been that it was a hallucination?
From what we've seen, shouldn't we assume that the face changing is more magic-based than actual physical faces being worn?
I would agree if we hadn't seen Jaqen and Arya's face on the faceless man that died.
I do hope we get further explanation though.
I do hope we get further explanation though.
I think the simplest explanation at this point, is that it WAS Arya, but she is setting a trap. She may be luring her to the dungeon we last saw her in.
quote:
I just read a pretty interesting possiblity.. What if that was Jaquen posing as Arya?
http://io9.gizmodo.com/if-you-give-peace-a-chance-on-game-of-thrones-you-ll-r-1780721168 (article contains book spoilers near the end but it CLEARLY marked and easily avoidable)
From the comments on Article:quote:
It wasn't Arya it was Jaqen wearing her face
1. Walked like Jaqen, wore hair parted down the middle, threw the coin with the right hand (Arya is left handed)
2. Was too obvious. Arya would have never asked for a cabin. The money was thrown around too casually, even if she was capable of stealing such a sum.
3. Lingering shot of statue on the bridge, maybe sorry to leave. Arya hasn't been there that long, doesn't have a particular fondness for the place. Could have stowed away as a cabin boy too easily
4. Jaqen's life belongs to her. He promised her 3 lives to take for the Red God. He took 2, then she named him as her 3rd. Instead of dying he bargained and agreed to help her escape but then when he left he gave her the coin and told her to come to Braavos. And he gave her the words Valar Morghulis, all men must die. Knowing what we know about their relationship with death there would have been no bargain really. He believes in death
His life is owed to the Red God. No bargain can change his fate and he knows it. He willingly dies in Arya's place, wearing her face, to fulfill the contract on his own life. He also was testing the Waif who did not fulfill the contract correctly by doing a belly wound instead of killing quickly. Waif is going to go out before he is gone officially. Scenes from next week show Waif running/ chasing possible real Arya
Makes sense!
Changing faces would not make him shrink a foot in stature.
quote:And the height difference. Arya is a child not a 6 foot tall man. They have never discussed how the faceless man handle difference body types, but I doubt Jahar could shrink down to Ayra's height.quote:This.
How was he wearing Arya's face if she is still alive? We've been shown the actual face is removed from the dead.
quote:good pointquote:
I just read a pretty interesting possiblity.. What if that was Jaquen posing as Arya?
http://io9.gizmodo.com/if-you-give-peace-a-chance-on-game-of-thrones-you-ll-r-1780721168 (article contains book spoilers near the end but it CLEARLY marked and easily avoidable)
From the comments on Article:quote:
It wasn't Arya it was Jaqen wearing her face
1. Walked like Jaqen, wore hair parted down the middle, threw the coin with the right hand (Arya is left handed)
2. Was too obvious. Arya would have never asked for a cabin. The money was thrown around too casually, even if she was capable of stealing such a sum.
3. Lingering shot of statue on the bridge, maybe sorry to leave. Arya hasn't been there that long, doesn't have a particular fondness for the place. Could have stowed away as a cabin boy too easily
4. Jaqen's life belongs to her. He promised her 3 lives to take for the Red God. He took 2, then she named him as her 3rd. Instead of dying he bargained and agreed to help her escape but then when he left he gave her the coin and told her to come to Braavos. And he gave her the words Valar Morghulis, all men must die. Knowing what we know about their relationship with death there would have been no bargain really. He believes in death
His life is owed to the Red God. No bargain can change his fate and he knows it. He willingly dies in Arya's place, wearing her face, to fulfill the contract on his own life. He also was testing the Waif who did not fulfill the contract correctly by doing a belly wound instead of killing quickly. Waif is going to go out before he is gone officially. Scenes from next week show Waif running/ chasing possible real Arya
Makes sense!
Changing faces would not make him shrink a foot in stature.
You'd think Arya would have been carrying Needle through the streets, knowing she was probably on the hit list now. That's why she went and got it again, ya know?
The sequence doesn't lend itself to being a anything but reality or a dream. There are too many things that wouldn't make sense for J'quien to do (see: book passage to westeros).
I think it actually happened, having it be a dream sequence would be too far out of character for this show. I do agree however that the leap from her sleeping in a cave by candlelight to being snappily dressed in the streets without her sword is a little strange
I think it actually happened, having it be a dream sequence would be too far out of character for this show. I do agree however that the leap from her sleeping in a cave by candlelight to being snappily dressed in the streets without her sword is a little strange
quote:Getting repeatedly stabbed in the stomach seems like a poor way to set a trap.
I think the simplest explanation at this point, is that it WAS Arya, but she is setting a trap. She may be luring her to the dungeon we last saw her in.
For the record, I think it was Arya, and I think she lives.
It was Arya. I enjoy some of the "way out there" theories that fans come up with, but this one is stupid.
For the record I also wouldn't be at all surprised if she would have some sort
Of armor or something like it filled with fake blood to fake out the waif. She's smart and knew this was coming.
The scenes for next week with her jumping thorough Windows makes me think her physical health is just fine
Of armor or something like it filled with fake blood to fake out the waif. She's smart and knew this was coming.
The scenes for next week with her jumping thorough Windows makes me think her physical health is just fine
I agree, but it would irk me even more if it was simply Arya being that dumb.
I mean, I don't think the scene makes that much sense either way.
A. Its the real Arya, and she decides to stroll through town and take in the sights when she should know that the Faceless God is coming for it's life. This was weird after she was cowering in a cave with needle.
B. Its Jacquen (sp?) posing as her, but allowing himself to get stabbed rather than just taking out the waif girl. The scene would be shot to be completely misleading, which seems kind of pointless to me as a viewer.
A. Its the real Arya, and she decides to stroll through town and take in the sights when she should know that the Faceless God is coming for it's life. This was weird after she was cowering in a cave with needle.
B. Its Jacquen (sp?) posing as her, but allowing himself to get stabbed rather than just taking out the waif girl. The scene would be shot to be completely misleading, which seems kind of pointless to me as a viewer.
quote:
How was he wearing Arya's face if she is still alive? We've been shown the actual face is removed from the dead.
See this clip from Season 5; Arya is confronted by Jaqen and the Waif after taking the wrong life. The Waif puts her in an arm lock from behind. Jaqen drinks the poison and dies. Arya is distraught. Jaqen then reveals himself as the Waif behind Arya. Arya pulls the face off the dead person and reveals a new face. She repeats this face-removal until she sees her own face - how did they get her face without her dying then?
i.e. there is precedent.
quote:Again, see the clip from above from the end of Season 5... he is the Waif in that scene and is clearly a foot shorter than Jaqen, until he becomes Jaqen again. - there is precedent...
Changing faces would not make him shrink a foot in stature.
UNLESS....
JAQEN is MANY people - which makes alot of sense. There are probably many many Faceless Men that could all hold the face of Jaqen Hagar. This would be important during training so that no attachments were made to the trainee; and also to test the trainee (as Arya was when "Jaqen" took the poison).
If it was Jaqen, I really don't see him allowing the Waif to get the drop on him in the first place. Do you? And, Jaqen wouldn't be walking down the street afterward, acting scared of every person he passed. That would be completely out of character for him, and pointless to boot.
It was Arya being stupid. She was completely unaware that the Waif was there to see her knock the drink out of the actress' hand to keep her from drinking the poisoned rum. So, she thought she had time to make arrangements to get out of town before Jaqen knew what was going on and put out a hit on her.
It was Arya being stupid. She was completely unaware that the Waif was there to see her knock the drink out of the actress' hand to keep her from drinking the poisoned rum. So, she thought she had time to make arrangements to get out of town before Jaqen knew what was going on and put out a hit on her.
While I don't necessarily buy into these theories, "Arya's" walk of shame after being stabbed could be to get a lot of witnesses to the fact that she had been "mortally" wounded.
I hate that theory.
The Fight Club theory makes more sense than Jaqen pretending to be Arya.
How could she survive 3 stabs to the gut?
quote:
While I don't necessarily buy into these theories, "Arya's" walk of shame after being stabbed could be to get a lot of witnesses to the fact that she had been "mortally" wounded.
The Faceless Men operate in the shadows. They aren't about having witnesses. Out of character for them.
quote:This is what I think. Arya doesn't know what we know and is probably a little cocky or naive. All that said, there's no way Arya dies off right now.
If it was Jaqen, I really don't see him allowing the Waif to get the drop on him in the first place. Do you? And, Jaqen wouldn't be walking down the street afterward, acting scared of every person he passed. That would be completely out of character for him, and pointless to boot.
It was Arya being stupid. She was completely unaware that the Waif was there to see her knock the drink out of the actress' hand to keep her from drinking the poisoned rum. So, she thought she had time to make arrangements to get out of town before Jaqen knew what was going on and put out a hit on her.
quote:There's no way? You do watch the show, right?quote:This is what I think. Arya doesn't know what we know and is probably a little cocky or naive. All that said, there's no way Arya dies off right now.
If it was Jaqen, I really don't see him allowing the Waif to get the drop on him in the first place. Do you? And, Jaqen wouldn't be walking down the street afterward, acting scared of every person he passed. That would be completely out of character for him, and pointless to boot.
It was Arya being stupid. She was completely unaware that the Waif was there to see her knock the drink out of the actress' hand to keep her from drinking the poisoned rum. So, she thought she had time to make arrangements to get out of town before Jaqen knew what was going on and put out a hit on her.
Haha, true. I just think she has too much plot armor to die in this way
quote:
Haha, true. I just think she has too much plot armor to die in this way
Then her whole storyline had ZERO meaning if she dies now.
Danny could die and she at least would have freed some cities, raised some dragons, etc.
Tyrion has done tons.
Heck, even Bran has changed history.
But Arya, her story has no impact on the GoT universe . . . yet.
And yes, the whole thing was just sloppy. Watching the activity from the top of the bridge and falling for the faceless men hiding behind a granny face trick and then teh waif not slicing her throat. It did not seem "real."
quote:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It would be a significant waste of lots of screen time over the past few seasons if she was killed now. I know GoT likes to kill characters suddenly, but all of those deaths were significant to the story. This one would be totally insignificant.quote:
Haha, true. I just think she has too much plot armor to die in this way
Then her whole storyline had ZERO meaning if she dies now.
I won't be surprised if more Starks eventually end up getting killed, but if Arya, Sansa, Bran or Jon die a meaningless death, I will be amazed at the stupidity of whomever made this decision.
quote:I'm thinking that Rickon will die this season, and well Jon is already dead and what is dead may never die so...
I won't be surprised if more Starks eventually end up getting killed, but if Arya, Sansa, Bran or Jon die a meaningless death, I will be amazed at the stupidity of whomever made this decision.
That really just leaves Bran, Sansa, and Arya. Arya still has her revenge tour to go on, and I some how doubt that she will die by the end of all this. Sansa is going to be protected by Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale IMO. I think Bran, Meera, and Benjen are going to come to save the day when man faces the Night King. That's when I think Benjen will die.
Question about Lyanna Mormont: She was Maege Mormont's daughter and Lord Commander Jeor Mormont's niece? Wouldn't she have a different last name if Maege and Jeor were brother and sister since presumably Lyanna 's father is of another house?
Lyanna Mormont's father has never been named in any telling of the story. Possible that he came from a lower household in which Mormont would possibly be kept or that Maege Mormont (her mother) retook the family named when she took over the household following Jorah's banishment.
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