quote:

---

quote:

---

I think the correct answer is... don't worry about the count. When we need to worry about them, more info on their numbers will be made known to us.

---

^This. We now know how they were created and that they can create their own through new-borns. There could be as few as 5 or as many as 50. We don't know.

---

Wait, how can they create their own through newborns?

Obviously this is a little bit of a hyperbole, but if ALL of the wildlings were either attacking the wall or seeking refuge at Hardhome, then there's no humans left above the wall (except Bran and Meera). Dead humans can only become wights. They need live humans to turn into White Walkers.

Squirrel Master makes a good point though that we keep seeing the Night King rolling 4 deep. It would make a lot of sense to me if there's a camp somewhere with all of the WWs and any time one of his three generals is killed in battle, a new WW steps up to take it's place.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Wait, how can they create their own through newborns?

---

I assume he means converting the human newborns, i.e. all of Craster's sons.

---

Which leads to the question, are there WW mommies to take care of the WW babies?

And it's not a stretch to wonder if other humans have been doing the same.

The WW would simply go where the NW is not guarding the wall. Essentially, the whole wall is unmanned with the exception of Castle Black and a couple smaller outposts. I think the tree/tunnel scene with Bran escaping shows the wall can easily be scaled (not to confuse scale with gray scale...couldn't resist) if wights can run along the ceiling of the tunnel. It has to be the "magic" that now prevents them from assaulting the wall.

quote:

---

The WW would simply go where the NW is not guarding the wall. Essentially, the whole wall is unmanned with the exception of Castle Black and a couple smaller outposts. I think the tree/tunnel scene with Bran escaping shows the wall can easily be scaled (not to confuse scale with gray scale...couldn't resist) if wights can run along the ceiling of the tunnel. It has to be the "magic" that now prevents them from assaulting the wall.

---

But how would they know what part of the wall is un-defended? How do they know who is on the other side or what they have to gain by climbing the wall? I think you're assuming that the WWs know the rest of the world exists and that there are huge civilizations on the other side of the wall. I think the fact that they made a deal with Craster shows there is a sense of strategy and survival instinct with them, but it's probably pretty likely that their knowledge of the rest of the world is very limited. They haven't SEEN any humans go through, over, or around the wall so maybe they don't know there are humans on the other side. That could be as powerful as magic in keeping them put.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

I think the correct answer is... don't worry about the count. When we need to worry about them, more info on their numbers will be made known to us.

---

^This. We now know how they were created and that they can create their own through new-borns. There could be as few as 5 or as many as 50. We don't know.

---

Wait, how can they create their own through newborns?

---

It was shown at the end of one of the episodes last season(?) The night king touched his finger to the skull of Craster's baby and it's eyes turned icy blue (obviously implying it had become a WW). The NK could have been doing that for who knows how many wilding infants. Hell, he may have been doing it for years. No reason to think he hasn't been amassing an army for some time.


EDIT: It was 2 seasons ago. Here's the scene:

quote:

---

I think you're assuming that the WWs know the rest of the world exists and that there are huge civilizations on the other side of the wall.

---

Didnt they have an assault on Westeros many many years ago according to some of Old Nan's stories to Bran while he lay in bed at Winterfell? She talked about Lords held up in the castles frozen to death during the hard winter and of course all the magical things about.

I suppose we haven't been given hard evidence they want to take over/destroy Westeros but I had always kind of assumed that much. Cant remember his name but the new Lord Commander of the NW judging from last episode he will be anyway. He tried to persuade Jon to stay because "You know whats out there and coming for us". (something along those lines). What I mean is, the show kind of implies that route it seems to me.

Yes I remember that part, but you implied they could create their own newborns.

I pretty clearly discussed how they needed already born and living humans that they can then turn into White Walkers. Craster has a VERY unorthodox setup where he impregnated all of his daughters and ONLY kept the daughters. To keep from being killed, he would sacrifice the male children. I don't think this was widely done amongst the wildlings, though it is absolutely possible.

Going forward, I think it is safe to say that the wildlings are aware of the White Walkers and are no longer giving them free babies to add to their army. So my point remains, it will be hard for them to add more White Walkers on their own.

But that was THOUSANDS of years ago, and we have no idea how old these guys live to be or how well they pass down history. It's possible this is the same Night King who attacked Westeros so many thousands of years ago, but it's also just as likely that he was just a guard WW stuck up in the north while his friends were down south attacking stuff and his friends were the ones defeated. Perhaps he never knew what happened to his friends who went over the wall.

Obviously we're just making up random assumptions about all this stuff, but I just meant to say there's a lot we still don't know, one way or the other. It's certainly fun to hypothesize though.

In the last episode, the same guy plays the full on evil night's king and the poor sap being stabbed with dragonglass by the children of the forest. This leads me to believe that there has only been one night's king. Just guessing tho.

Vladimir 'Furdo' Furdik

quote:

---

What's the alternative? Are you assuming there are a half dozen packs of them littered about, but it just happens to be only the one pack with the Night King that we always see interacting with the humans?

---

What's the alternative? There could be 20. There could be 20,000.

Theyve shown 100 or 200 human characters. Does that mean there are only 200 people in this world?

quote:

---

quote:

---

The WW would simply go where the NW is not guarding the wall. Essentially, the whole wall is unmanned with the exception of Castle Black and a couple smaller outposts. I think the tree/tunnel scene with Bran escaping shows the wall can easily be scaled (not to confuse scale with gray scale...couldn't resist) if wights can run along the ceiling of the tunnel. It has to be the "magic" that now prevents them from assaulting the wall.

---

But how would they know what part of the wall is un-defended? How do they know who is on the other side or what they have to gain by climbing the wall? I think you're assuming that the WWs know the rest of the world exists and that there are huge civilizations on the other side of the wall. I think the fact that they made a deal with Craster shows there is a sense of strategy and survival instinct with them, but it's probably pretty likely that their knowledge of the rest of the world is very limited. They haven't SEEN any humans go through, over, or around the wall so maybe they don't know there are humans on the other side. That could be as powerful as magic in keeping them put.

---

What if Benjen is one of them now? He was the First Ranger and would know all of that.

quote:

---

quote:

---

What's the alternative? Are you assuming there are a half dozen packs of them littered about, but it just happens to be only the one pack with the Night King that we always see interacting with the humans?

---

What's the alternative? There could be 20. There could be 20,000.

Theyve shown 100 or 200 human characters. Does that mean there are only 200 people in this world?

---

I understand your point, but I don't think those correlate.

If there's 19,996 other WWs hiding in a cave somewhere way north where they aren't messing with humans, does it matter? We're talking about the number of WWs that are actively attacking the humans, and so far, it has only been a handful.

quote:

---

quote:

---

But how would they know what part of the wall is un-defended? How do they know who is on the other side or what they have to gain by climbing the wall? I think you're assuming that the WWs know the rest of the world exists and that there are huge civilizations on the other side of the wall. I think the fact that they made a deal with Craster shows there is a sense of strategy and survival instinct with them, but it's probably pretty likely that their knowledge of the rest of the world is very limited. They haven't SEEN any humans go through, over, or around the wall so maybe they don't know there are humans on the other side. That could be as powerful as magic in keeping them put.

---

---

The White Walkers use the wights as cannon fodder....they are expendable, and it takes a lot to put them out of action. Like Mance Rayder's attack: he admitted to Jon Snow (when he left Castle Black to assassinate Rayder) that there were a thousand wildlings crossing at other points, and that it was only a matter of time before the wildlings persevered. Rayder used the series of attacks on Castle Black to "hold" the KW in place. The same will happen when the WW's make their assault. The WW were created as a "weapon" to stop man. They have illustrated that they can implement strategy at Hardhome, the Fist, and in their individual actions to date (the opening scene of the whole series when they attacked the three KW members,, for example). At this stage, I think they could attack Castle Black head on and still defeat the NW.

As for the rest of the world and huge civilizations, you bring up a good point. However, the WW handled Hardhome with minimal resistance. Did the NW and Wildlings delay the assault...of course they did. However, the WW leader "rose" everyone from the dead as Jon Snow was making a hasty departure. In my eyes, the message sent was you cannot stop us and we will only increase our numbers when you try. I do not think that they are worried one single bit about what is on the other side of the wall.

I look forward to seeing what happens at the Wall, and it is going to be a grand event given the creative minds behind the television series!

quote:

---

In the last episode, the same guy plays the full on evil night's king and the poor sap being stabbed with dragonglass by the children of the forest. This leads me to believe that there has only been one night's king. Just guessing tho.

Vladimir 'Furdo' Furdik

---

Funny thing about the guy who play's the Night's King, he is recast from the guy who played him in S4 and S5. Richard Brake played the Night's King in S4 and S5 but had a filming conflict with another show he is on and was unable to be a part of this season.

Thanks for that detailed summary of everything we've seen from the White Walkers so far, but I did watch the show myself. You didn't address my any of my other points. How do the White Walkers know what is on the other side of the wall and why are the White Walkers incentivized to try and cross the wall? I don't disagree that they could easily make it over the wall if they tried, and also would certainly defeat the NW if they did that, but that doesn't mean they have a reason or incentive to do that. Even IF they knew how many NW were there and how best to attack, they would sustain WAY more casualties than they would gain by raising the dead NW (there's only maybe 200 NW now?)

Hardhome was a completely different battle, there were THOUSANDS of unsuspecting women and children everywhere and the wights had the tactical advantage of coming down the hill and trapping their enemy with the water at their backs. The city was hosting any and all leftover wildlings so the WWs could have followed any random tribe they were raiding to find Hardhome. But the key is that the survivors left on boats and so the WWs couldn't follow them to see where they went. They don't know that Jon went to the other side of the wall.

The point is, I agree with you that the WW army could easily overrun Castle Black and get past the wall (magic spells not-withstanding). But they HAVEN'T YET, so there must be a reason. It COULD be that there is a magic spell, or it COULD be that they don't know there are people on the other side of the wall, or it COULD be that they don't see it as much of a tactical win to lose 10,000 troops and only gain 200 new ones. We just don't know, but the NW certainly is attempting to plan for the worst, just in case.

quote:

---

quote:

---

In the last episode, the same guy plays the full on evil night's king and the poor sap being stabbed with dragonglass by the children of the forest. This leads me to believe that there has only been one night's king. Just guessing tho.

Vladimir 'Furdo' Furdik

---

Funny thing about the guy who play's the Night's King, he is recast from the guy who played him in S4 and S5. Richard Brake played the Night's King in S4 and S5 but had a filming conflict with another show he is on and was unable to be a part of this season.

---

So maybe they ARE different men but they just tried to pass the new character as the original one for budget purposes since they already paid this new dude.

quote:

---

Thanks for that detailed summary of everything we've seen from the White Walkers so far, but I did watch the show myself. You didn't address my any of my other points. How do the White Walkers know what is on the other side of the wall and why are the White Walkers incentivized to try and cross the wall? I don't disagree that they could easily make it over the wall if they tried, and also would certainly defeat the NW if they did that, but that doesn't mean they have a reason or incentive to do that. Even IF they knew how many NW were there and how best to attack, they would sustain WAY more casualties than they would gain by raising the dead NW (there's only maybe 200 NW now?)

Hardhome was a completely different battle, there were THOUSANDS of unsuspecting women and children everywhere and the wights had the tactical advantage of coming down the hill and trapping their enemy with the water at their backs. The city was hosting any and all leftover wildlings so the WWs could have followed any random tribe they were raiding to find Hardhome. But the key is that the survivors left on boats and so the WWs couldn't follow them to see where they went. They don't know that Jon went to the other side of the wall.

The point is, I agree with you that the WW army could easily overrun Castle Black and get past the wall (magic spells not-withstanding). But they HAVEN'T YET, so there must be a reason. It COULD be that there is a magic spell, or it COULD be that they don't know there are people on the other side of the wall, or it COULD be that they don't see it as much of a tactical win to lose 10,000 troops and only gain 200 new ones. We just don't know, but the NW certainly is attempting to plan for the worst, just in case.

---

My apologies...did not mean to come across condescending. Let's let the series play out and see what happens!

All good.

quote:

---

I'm thinking it's permanent and it's going to allow the WWs to go through the wall.

---

The mark just allowed the NK to find Bran. The NK then did the ice earthquake when allowed the wights to attack the tree. I don't think the mark was anything more than a radar tracking device.

The guy who was pushed out of the tower by the guy from New Amsterdam said, "They can't get in here", then the Star Wars: The Force Awakens" dude said, "They can now".

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

I'm thinking it's permanent and it's going to allow the WWs to go through the wall.

---

The mark just allowed the NK to find Bran. The NK then did the ice earthquake when allowed the wights to attack the tree. I don't think the mark was anything more than a radar tracking device.

---

Negative. They explicitly said that the mark allowed them to get inside the tree. After noticing the mark the TER says that the WW are coming for Bran. Bran says they can't get in and the TER says that they can now.

---

What the hell do I know? Why would you listen to me anyway?

You know nothing.

quote:

---

You know nothing.

---

It is known.

quote:

---

quote:

---

You know nothing.

---

It is known.

---

http://time.com/4280629/game-of-thrones-kit-harington-rose-leslie-dating/

quote:

---

How many dire wolves are left?

---

Although this was answered earlier, here is a great article. I have never read the books and this article has some book references but really nothing much. But you know, if that kind of stuff bothers you, don't click.

I never thought about the significance of the dire wolves names before. Hmmmmm.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/game-of-thrones-direwolves-sad-state.html?mid=wired

I like it.

Hmmm, interesting idea, though I don't know if there's much value in following where a dead girl was. Perhaps he doesn't know Stannis lost, but if he did go up there, I don't think he would get much help in terms of a cure.

quote:

---

Hmmm, interesting idea, though I don't know if there's much value in following where a dead girl was. Perhaps he doesn't know Stannis lost, but if he did go up there, I don't think he would get much help in terms of a cure.

---

I think its an interesting theory, and one I also had during that scene with Dany. Going to the North and running into Jon, would be the ultimate way to connect the two. But Davos is there with Jon and should have some idea of what/who cured Shireen.

I like this theory as well. Its not farfetched at all either.

Jorah probably starts asking around about possible cures, i'm sure someone heard of a baratheon girl getting halfway cured. Jorah heads back to Westeros to find them, meets up with Davos instead who can get him in the right direction.

I wonder how the Daario story is going to play out. Hate to say it but he may be headed for an unfortunate death sometime soon.

I have trouble placing him in the end of the show, its not like he would marry Dany after its all said and done right?

Edit: She does have to have him as a body guard for the immediate future though.