jeffk said:

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Feel for Rashford too. A legitimately great human being.

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Rashford plays for Man u one of the biggest club/s in the world..He should be counted to hit a PK in a shoot out, not sure how good of a guy he is has to do with it?

Fairview20 said:

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I have very limited knowledge of soccer, but would think taking a PK would be similar to shooting a free throw in terms of pre shot build up. Find a routine that works and stick with it. I've watched Kane take PKs quite a bit with Tottenham and he has the same run up/cadence every time. Like others have said I think Rashford overthought it and missed his mark as a result.

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He knew what he was doing and tried to make it too perfect.

MB19 said:

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wangus12 said:

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Same with Sterling I guess. But Saka has never taken a professional match. To have him take the 5th with 55 years of national frustration on the line. His social media has already become a hellscape of racism and hateful remarks

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Which is a load of rubbish. The kid stepped up when called upon. I'll bet the overwhelming majority of those attacking him aren't using their real names-the cowards.

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He's paid handsomely for the job he does, part of that is having a thick skin when it comes to people criticizing his performance.

He didn't perform on the biggest stage... if he can't handle the criticism then F' that dude. Being a gifted, talented, rich, young & handsome person who is paid millions to play a game should be enough, if he can't handle the blowback when things aren't on the sunny side then he needs to find another profession...

Really felt bad for Saka.

It's coming Rome!

True.
Thanks...

I took the PKs for my traveling team and made them all in the run of play. The only time we went to PKs was my only miss, it's just a completely different feel (wide left, I can still see it), Then add the pressure those England guys were under with their history, the fact that two of them were barely off the bench etc, and it was a tough spot.
But I knew as soon as the match was over that ugliness was coming between the frustration of another PK loss and who had the misses. Some really sad and angry people in this world.

oragator said:

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I took the PKs for my traveling team and made them all in the run of play. The only time we went to PKs was my only miss, it's just a completely different feel (wide left, I can still see it), Then add the pressure those England guys were under with their history, the fact that two of them were barely off the bench etc, and it was a tough spot.
But I knew as soon as the match was over that ugliness was coming between the frustration of another PK loss and who had the misses. Some really sad and angry people in this world.

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You're coming dangerously close to calling angry English fans racists. Do not paint the angry English fans as being racist or some such garbage. Those players **** the bed. They're professionals at the highest level, the blame is on them and their coach, but mostly on them for getting cute doing some stupid stutter step silliness.

If they smashed the ball and it was deflected there would be a different reaction, but they got cute and are rightfully being called out as the fools they are...

I'm calling out the ones referenced here, I am not calling all their fans anything.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/england-eng/story/4431389/england-fa-condemn-racist-abuse-aimed-at-rashfordsakasancho-after-euro-shootout-loss

aggiephoenix02 said:

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MB19 said:

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wangus12 said:

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Same with Sterling I guess. But Saka has never taken a professional match. To have him take the 5th with 55 years of national frustration on the line. His social media has already become a hellscape of racism and hateful remarks

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Which is a load of rubbish. The kid stepped up when called upon. I'll bet the overwhelming majority of those attacking him aren't using their real names-the cowards.

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He's paid handsomely for the job he does, part of that is having a thick skin when it comes to people criticizing his performance.

He didn't perform on the biggest stage... if he can't handle the criticism then F' that dude. Being a gifted, talented, rich, young & handsome person who is paid millions to play a game should be enough, if he can't handle the blowback when things aren't on the sunny side then he needs to find another profession...

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Man - at the end of the day it's a fugging game. To get so worked up over an individual you don't even know over a game is ridiculous.

I did some serious self-analysis after USA failed to make the WC. I couldn't sleep that night because of it. I realized how dumb that was to get so worked up and have managed to just see what sports for what they are - entertainment. It's nothing to get worked up over.

oragator said:

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I took the PKs for my traveling team and made them all in the run of play. The only time we went to PKs was my only miss, it's just a completely different feel (wide left, I can still see it), Then add the pressure those England guys were under with their history, the fact that two of them were barely off the bench etc, and it was a tough spot.
But I knew as soon as the match was over that ugliness was coming between the frustration of another PK loss and who had the misses. Some really sad and angry people in this world.

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I stopped missing my pks when I just decided I was going to go left every time as a left footed person. Crossing your body increases your chance of missing (ala Rashford).

No tape analysts in youth club soccer though.

TheMasterplan said:

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aggiephoenix02 said:

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MB19 said:

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wangus12 said:

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Same with Sterling I guess. But Saka has never taken a professional match. To have him take the 5th with 55 years of national frustration on the line. His social media has already become a hellscape of racism and hateful remarks

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Which is a load of rubbish. The kid stepped up when called upon. I'll bet the overwhelming majority of those attacking him aren't using their real names-the cowards.

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He's paid handsomely for the job he does, part of that is having a thick skin when it comes to people criticizing his performance.

He didn't perform on the biggest stage... if he can't handle the criticism then F' that dude. Being a gifted, talented, rich, young & handsome person who is paid millions to play a game should be enough, if he can't handle the blowback when things aren't on the sunny side then he needs to find another profession...

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Man - at the end of the day it's a fugging game. To get so worked up over an individual you don't even know over a game is ridiculous.

I did some serious self-analysis after USA failed to make the WC. I couldn't sleep that night because of it. I realized how dumb that was to get so worked up and have managed to just see what sports for what they are - entertainment. It's nothing to get worked up over.

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I get that, one hundred percent. To be completely honest, Fran is what did it for me.

But I'm not talking about the fans, I'm talking about the players.

It's healthy to get where you're at as a fan, but it's unrealistic to project that mindset onto entire fanbases.

Imagine being a person who gets so angry at...penalty kicks. The sporting act that is literally called "a lottery". Yes there are good PKs and bad PKs but by far the primary determinant of whether it was good or bad is whether or not it goes in. Now imagine getting so angry at losing on penalty kicks...in your team's first final in 55 years. I mean everyone is entitled to their own emotion but I can comfortably say that I have no desire to know the person who gets so livid in such a circumstance.

And people who clown on the stutter step approach or say just "smash it in" confuse the ever living hell out of me because of the fact that PKs are as much mental as they are about execution. There are effectively 2 different types of good penalty takers. Ones who can put it in any corner they want with power and ones who succeed by making it mental and getting the goalie to commit before they choose their side.

Rashford isn't an amazing finisher. His chances of being able to pick a corner on a consistent basis are low. So he often tries to get the goalie to commit before selecting a side and in that instance, a stutter step approach makes a lot of sense. He actually succeeded with the first part of the execution. He got Donnarumma to commit before he had to shoot. He just failed miserably at the last half of the equation. I actually think Sancho's and Saka's PKs were much worse. They went for the first option but they were nowhere near close enough to a corner to succeed and they were at a very easy height for the goalie.

Dre_00 said:

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Imagine being a person who gets so angry at...penalty kicks. The sporting act that is literally called "a lottery". Yes there are good PKs and bad PKs but by far the primary determinant of whether it was good or bad is whether or not it goes in. Now imagine getting so angry at losing on penalty kicks...in your team's first final in 55 years. I mean everyone is entitled to their own emotion but I can comfortably say that I have no desire to know the person who gets so livid in such a circumstance.

And people who clown on the stutter step approach or say just "smash it in" confuse the ever living hell out of me because of the fact that PKs are as much mental as they are about execution. There are effectively 2 different types of good penalty takers. Ones who can put it in any corner they want with power and ones who succeed by making it mental and getting the goalie to commit before they choose their side.

Rashford isn't an amazing finisher. His chances of being able to pick a corner on a consistent basis are low. So he often tries to get the goalie to commit before selecting a side and in that instance, a stutter step approach makes a lot of sense. He actually succeeded with the first part of the execution. He got Donnarumma to commit before he had to shoot. He just failed miserably at the last half of the equation. I actually think Sancho's and Saka's PKs were much worse. They went for the first option but they were nowhere near close enough to a corner to succeed and they were at a very easy height for the goalie.

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Are you a keeper? I only ask because I am, and I completely disagree with you and how you view and approach PKs...

Edit: As a keeper I can say in all honesty I prefer to take on the guy who tries to fool around, stutter step, and try to trick me. The worst, as a keeper, is the guys who know where they're shooting and then they do so with authority.

Although there was that one time in the GoldCup that Landon sunk a floater down the middle and made dirty Sanchez look like a fool.

At least I think it was the GoldCup, Landon might have done that in qualifying, but I'm pretty sure it was a GoldCup match...

Maybe an easier way for me to state it is:

If you're taking a PK and playing games and stutter stepping and doing mental challenges while taking a PK then you're letting the goal keeper engage and compete against you.

On the other hand, if you just blast it near your target then the keeper isn't playing games, the keeper is at a disadvantage.

Nope, not a keeper. But let me say it slightly differently...

...at this level, I think it's incredibly simplistic to say "blast it near your target". Like that's easy to do. Because the margins at this level are extraordinarily slim. Kane's penalty was virtually perfect. Yet, if it had been a foot closer to Donnarumma, it would've been saved. Belotti's was about 3 feet from the inside post and it was easily saved.

There are a lot of good penalty takers who are successful but not because they are good at blasting it in the corner every time.

Are idiot English fans blaming Saka more than that other 2 because he happened to go last?

If so, then that's even more moronic.

100% agree that the stutter step and herky jerky stuff hurts the penalty takers more than it helps.

Look at the 10 shots yesterday.
Nearly every player that got cute, missed the shot.
And nearly every guy that just went up there and blasted it, made it.

The most important skill in penalty kicks is confidence.

I'm sure there is something on internet breaking down shot types and success rate. I haven't looked for it. But I'm confident that it's similar to yesterday's results.

jeffk said:

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I've actually attended some really good development sessions on penalty kicks over the years. Confidence is huge but I think a lot hinges on having a plan and then sticking with it regardless of what you see once you approach the ball. And obviously being technically precise enough to execute that plan under pressure.

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Confidence and sticking to a plan. That's what I meant and phrased better.

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of English fans are talking about how terrible English fans are for blaming them and not actually blaming them.

Yeah, it was ugly yesterday, but thankfully it seems that the pendulum has swung back against those being abusive.

birdman said:

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jeffk said:

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I've actually attended some really good development sessions on penalty kicks over the years. Confidence is huge but I think a lot hinges on having a plan and then sticking with it regardless of what you see once you approach the ball. And obviously being technically precise enough to execute that plan under pressure.

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Confidence and sticking to a plan. That's what I meant and phrased better.

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This. My club coach 20 years ago growing up didn't let us mess around. If you tried any of the stutter stuff, that was the last time you took a kick. We were taught to pick our spot and strike it with confidence. He told us to never even bother looking at the goalie. It is very much mental, but I knew where I was going every time. Top left corner with my right.

You can learn to not reveal what side you are going to, of course. THere is definite gamesmanship going on, even when you are just picking your spot and putting the ball there.

I would like for the refs to actually start enforcing the natural approach rule, or however it is phrased. I'm fairly confident you arent supposed to be allowed to stutter step, or completely stop like a lot of players do.

Feinting in the the run up is permitted. You can't feint once it's completed.

Kane's penalty goes in probably 9 out of 10 times even if the keeper goes the right way. Into the side netting with power.

Maguire's take goes in 100% of the time even if it's against the best keeper on the planet and they know in advance where it's heading. Unstoppable.


I absolutely hated Rashford's attempt. I feel like waiting to respond to the keeper is giving up one of your biggest advantages.

Yeah, stuttering or hesitating in your run-up isn't illegal.

PatAg said:

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You can learn to not reveal what side you are going to, of course. THere is definite gamesmanship going on, even when you are just picking your spot and putting the ball there.

I would like for the refs to actually start enforcing the natural approach rule, or however it is phrased. I'm fairly confident you arent supposed to be allowed to stutter step, or completely stop like a lot of players do.

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I believe as long as you're continuously moving toward the ball you're good. Even some of the worst offenders I saw were still moving toward the ball when they replayed it on slow motion.

jeffk said:

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I've actually attended some really good development sessions on penalty kicks over the years. Confidence is huge but I think a lot hinges on having a plan and then sticking with it regardless of what you see once you approach the ball. And obviously being technically precise enough to execute that plan under pressure.

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OK yes but...stutter stepping and trying to get the keeper to commit is in fact a plan. And maybe that's the big disconnect here. It comes off as lacking confidence or it comes off as being nervous. But it absolutely doesn't mean that.

I will concede that Rashford looked nervous last night but my conclusion was reached not from the type of penalty he took but his body language before taking it. Look at Bruno Fernandes or Pogba. They often (in the case of Bruno almost exclusively) use the stutter approach and I'd wager their conversion percentages are high.

Sidenote: no offense intended to those sharing the PK strategies they've employed as players but your "pick a target and hit it as hard as you can strategy" probably works a lot better when you aren't facing world class keepers with a penchant for saving penalties and who have likely reviewed thousands of hours of data to determine players tendencies, tells, etc.