****Official Euros 2020 (2021) Tournament Thread****

90,915 Views | 2215 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by stillmerk
OregonAggie
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Kane and Sterling are two of the worst at diving and something needs to be done about this crap. It's obviously not just them.

I think the refs should stop calling as many PKs and let VAR start calling them if they're that egregious.

Sterling dove. Plain and simple.

Here's some quotes from the media:

ITV pundit Roy Kane called the decision "very, very soft", and Gary Neville agreed with him.

"If we're being fair, you'd be absolutely devastated if you lost to a penalty like that," he said.

Speaking on BeIN Sports, Kasper Schmeichel's father Peter said: "[The referee] made a really big mistake on the penalty. This will be debated for a long, long time. In a way, it's a hard one to take because it's not a penalty."

Former Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger agreed: "No penalty. I don't understand why in situations like that the VAR, the referee doesn't go and look on the screen. In a moment like that, he has to be absolutely sure," he said.
Rudyjax
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AustinAg2012 said:

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

...but I called the last 2 WC champs prior.
Wow, you actually predicted two of the prohibitive favorites (Germany/France) would win the WC?! Bravo, man... Bravo!


Pretty sure Brazil was the overwhelming favorite in both.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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Re: Laser - no comments ? Go to Daily Mail site for a picture of the laser playing across

Denmark's keeper! A sorry episode !

Probably didn't affect keeper but COULD HAVE !
carl spacklers hat
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So if some are going to beotch and moan about the soft penalty awarded on the Sterling foul (I don't dispute it was soft, but defender shouldn't run into him in the box, either), are those same people going to acknowledge the missed foul in the box in the first half?
gougler08
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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:

Re: Laser - no comments ? Go to Daily Mail site for a picture of the laser playing across

Denmark's keeper! A sorry episode !

Probably didn't affect keeper but COULD HAVE !
I mean, he saved the initial PK so sure didn't seem to make a difference
agdoc2001
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I say we let this go, but every englishman has to agree never to complain about the "Hand of God " ever again. Deal?
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akm91
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Quote:

Former Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger agreed: "No penalty. I don't understand why in situations like that the VAR, the referee doesn't go and look on the screen. In a moment like that, he has to be absolutely sure," he said.
This! The ref should've absolutely gone and looked at the monitor and saw the Sterling dive before contact even occurred.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
An Ag in CO
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ENG have been able to milk as much out of the "we don't resort to typical Southern European shenanigans" spiel as was possible. It's obviously been gone for quite a few years now, but this latest episode should ensure that everyone is aware they do the exact same things as everyone else.

Booing the opposing team's national anthem - check!
Shining laser in eyes of opposing GK - check!
Diving for calls - check!

They're one homophobic chant away from being the MEX of UEFA.
Rudyjax
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An Ag in CO said:

ENG have been able to milk as much out of the "we don't resort to typical Southern European shenanigans" spiel as was possible. It's obviously been gone for quite a few years now, but this latest episode should ensure that everyone is aware they do the exact same things as everyone else.

Booing the opposing team's national anthem - check!
Shining laser in eyes of opposing GK - check!
Diving for calls - check!

They're one homophobic chant away from being the MEX of UEFA.


Wanker could be considered homophobic.
chjoak
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I don't agree with everything you said but some has some merit. Let's dissect...

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I've said it before and gotten blasted here, but if you want to see why soccer isn't as popular in the US as many think it should be, look no further than tonight.
Two hours of play and they mustered three goals.
First was a brilliant goal but off a soft penalty.
Second was an own goal.
Third and deciding goal was a joke.

So zero good goals in the run of play in two hours, Denmark bunkered in for the last 45 minutes basically making it like watching paint dry, players acting like they were trying out to play JFK in a Zapruder film remake when they were so much as touched, and again, had the awful call not been made, it would have been decided on 10 one on one plays that involve one tenth of the skill of the game. And this in a tournament where there have already been 11 own goals.
Part of the reason here is that we are discussing A) an international tourney and B) one of significance to those involved. In international play, because the players generally get limited time together (exception being the teams that pull most of their players from 2-3 clubs) so tactics tend to be a bit simplified and teams all tend to play a little more defensively (ALOT of 3/5 at the back this year). Add in the fact that the Euro's are more significant to these teams than anything other than a World Cup and you get a number of players/teams that are playing to avoid bad mistakes. On top of that you are making your assessment based on a team that is punching above it's talent (Denmark got that far on emotion) and a team that can't pull the trigger in the final 3rd (England has more touches per shot than any team in the tourney).

For me the OG number is interesting but for the most part a non-factor. Many (like the one from Den/Eng) would have been scored by the offensive player had the defender not been in position. There are always mistakes but it is hard to fault a CB/FB that accidently deflects the ball in the net when he is busting his butt to make sure a forward doesn't get it first.

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First have a review of every game for dives to be completed within 24 hours. If someone is found to have dived, yellow for mediocre offense, red for a bad one, Stuff would end tomorrow. It's the worst part of the game.
Get your sentiment but an after the fact review does no good. If VAR and/or assistant refs aren't reviewing for dives then there is no point. The solution to curbing dives is to make the penalty more harsh. Right now refs won't pull out a card unless the dive is very egregious or a player does it multiple times in a game. There needs to be some sort of penalty EVERY time a player dives, especially when someone acts like their leg is broken but the jump up 30 sec later like nothing happened.

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While it didn't help much this year, keep the allowance of additional subs.
I have no issue keeping the additional subs. Understand the strategy associated with 3 subs but I agree that sticking with 5 subs could help maintain a similar strategy while allowing more excitement (fresh legs) in games.

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Allow indirect free kicks in the box on those plays at the discretion of the ref.
No clue what you are referring to here.

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Get rid of the offsides rule. If a guy is sitting back cherry picking, that's still him and a defender miles from the play, which opens up the field.
I've played and watched soccer for 30+ yrs. While I tend to side with those that lean towards tradition, offsides is one of the few rules of soccer that I would have no issue getting rid of. It is by far the most complicated rule to explain to anyone and it is very difficult to call correctly for a line judge. As I see it, I would be ok with one of 2 options...

Option 1 - Do away with offsides completely. Make the entire field a free for all. The positives is that the games will be more open and should create more goals. The biggest negative is that defenders and defensive strategy as we know it would be significantly changed/marginalized.

Option 2 - Change to a hockey style fixed offsides line. Basically, as an offensive player you are not allowed to cross the line until the ball has crossed the line. You could use the current "ball is played" concept but that maintains some of the current "fuzziness" of whether a player is offsides or not.

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Accurately capture extra time, which would seriously curtail time wasting. I saw a study that the average game has 14 minutes, and only about five are added.
I'm back and forth on this. When I was in high school in TX for UIL events, we always played in football stadiums with a scoreboard. In those games the refs worked with the scoreboard guy and would stop the clock during a defined stoppage. Typically the ref would signal him to stop/start the clock. When the clock eventually hit zero, the half was over. While it's not perfect, everyone (players, fans, coaches) knows where the time stands and there is not argument with the ref's discretion about when to blow the final whistle.

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Put in a rule for red card offenses that they can be seen off for 20 minutes or some other number depending on the severity of the offense, Because deciding the game on one call ruins it. Ask Sweden. If it's in the first half, the best you can hope for is 70 minutes of "heroic" bunkering, with the team with 11 winning something like 90 percent of the time.
The dude from Sweden deserved the red that was a very dangerous play. That said, I think there is an argument to be made to change the way cards are handled. Best idea I've heard is to change to a 3 card (yellow, red, blue) system. The general concept is that physical fouls that are currently yellow or red would stay as such and professional (pulling jersey to stop a breakaway) and unprofessional (diving) would get the "blue" card. Those that receive a blue card have to leave the field for X min (hockey style) while their team plays a man down. If a player receives multiple blue cards per game the length of penalty time increases until they have received so many that they earn a red.
KCup17
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My vote is to keep hockey rules in hockey and keep soccer rules in soccer. I don't really care that soccer isn't the most popular sport in the US.

Once you start changing the rules of the game to cater to a certain countries preference you end up with a sport that can only be played in that country.
Rudyjax
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Good post.

The pedantic person in me is compelled to point out that offsides and line judge are American Football.

It's offside and AR.
chjoak
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Also sometimes referred to as Linesman. I just mixed stuff up in my head while typing.
twilly
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Though this comparison would register highly here.


Ranger fans you're not dreaming! The Rangers are the World Series Champions!
Rudyjax
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chjoak said:

Also sometimes referred to as Linesman. I just mixed stuff up in my head while typing.


Old terminology.
jeffk
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It's not the preferred nomenclature, but it's not worth correcting folks on. Similar to "offsides" - if I corrected every player and coach who used that term, I'd never get anywhere.
Max Power
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The evolution of modern soccer is no different than what's happened in basketball, football, and hockey. It's a softer game today than it was even just 20 years ago. Look at the shapes of the soccer players, they aren't nearly as stout today as they used to be. They're a lot more slender, agile, there's not as many that look like they're borderline rugby players. These guys have come up in the weaker game so they haven't had to get thicker to survive, and as a result you've got guys that go down with minimal contact vs actual fouls. If you want to make a track comparison they look less like sprinters now, more like distance runners.

To me if you want to make diving/exaggerating a bigger issue than it is then it's got to impact the game. If you're down on the ground more than 10 seconds you gotta leave the field. Just like in the NFL with real or fake injuries, if you go down, you're off the field. If players had to leave the field that were hamming it up, that would change their play real quick.

Also, offside calls are out of hand, if you need VAR to tell if a player is 6" past the other players then they're not offside. To me if part of their body is inline with any defenders body, other than the keeper, that should be legal. If they are completely past the last man, then it's offside. There's been some great goals nullified that I think should have stood.
Rudyjax
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jeffk said:

It's not the preferred nomenclature, but it's not worth correcting folks on. Similar to "offsides" - if I corrected every player and coach who used that term, I'd never get anywhere.


As I said, it was very pedantic of me.

His post was really good but his misuse of words bothered me as he would seem to be someone who would know these things.
Rudyjax
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Quote:

Also, offside calls are out of hand, if you need VAR to tell if a player is 6" past the other players then they're not offside. To me if part of their body is inline with any defenders body, other than the keeper, that should be legal. If they are completely past the last man, then it's offside. There's been some great goals nullified that I think should have stood.


Agree except it's 2nd to last defender.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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Offside rule prevents a player from spending the whole game close to the goal.
aTmAg
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deadbq03 said:

aTmAg said:

Also every foul should be reviewed and if the person was not touched then it should be an automatic yellow card. No exceptions.
I like the notion but I wouldn't want these kinds of stoppages during the game. Too much VAR as it is (actually I like all the VAR except the ridiculous lines for offside).
My idea is that they don't interrupt the game unless the VAR thinks there was a flop. So unless the ref hears otherwise in his headset, he assumes all was good and he presses on like normal. 80% of the time it wouldn't stop at all.

This would encourage the guys from not flopping and rolling around on the ground Neymar style. Since that give VAR time to review if it was fake.
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It would be great if everything was reviewed after the game and players were slapped with a card for each incident. I'd like to think that professional refs are already reviewing their own tapes to see what they need to get better at, so this wouldn't be that much more work.

Having it happen after the game means it counts toward yellow card suspension limits. If you wanted to be super strict, you could treat multiple infractions the same game as being shown yellow twice, and therefore red and therefore an automatic ban the next game. I think that'd be a bit harsh because the player would've never had the opportunity to be warned about it during the game but getting 2+ yellows in one match puts a player well on his way to getting a suspension for the yellow card limit.
I think they should do this too.
deadbq03
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Sounds good, sign me up!
ptothemo
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Up front, I get the idea of the post-match review for diving and simulation and punishing that with cards. The intent is sound in my view, but the application is near impossible. I typed up everything below first but then felt like I would be leading or biased, so I am just putting my stance and qualifiers up front rather than at the end.

General question for all the folks who are advocating the post-match review of diving leading to cards being handed out - what do you envision would happen if one of the players who gets a card afterwards should have been sent off and had a direct impact on the outcome of the game? For example:

Player gets yellow in 42'
Player dives in 65' - that dive is not yellowed during the game but is eventually yellowed through the post-match review
Player scores game-winning goal in 87'

The 65' dive means that they should have been given sent off with a red. Do they still get the red but the goal and the result stand? Do we restart the game from the 65' with them being sent off?

There are a ton of of other permutations to this that get even more complicated that I won't even get into.

In my view, there is already a huge problem in soccer with VAR taking so much of the life out of the most genuine moments in the game (i.e. fans and players not truly celebrating a goal because they are waiting to VAR to confirm) that adding even more video review and (re)adjudication of live action and doing it post-match would take the current state and make it exponentially worse.
Legal Custodian
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I think it can't be a FIFA or UEFA/CONCACAF thing. It would have to come from the respective domestic leagues. Result still stands, player gets red card and a 2 match ban, and a 1 or 2 week salary fine.

Not sure what to do in Regional or FIFA competitions
ptothemo
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England's formation and team selection is not encouraging when it comes to them trying to win and keeping the game open. I know that Italy is much more open than they have been in the past, but we all know that they will close up shop if they need to. I hope that I am wrong, but this just feels like a big cancel each other out match.
aggiephoenix02
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I hope it's an ugly, dirty match, with lots of controversy. I want the fans to be mad at the players, the ref, the announcers, all of it, I want a s#!+ show...
Silvertaps
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ptothemo said:

England's formation and team selection is not encouraging when it comes to them trying to win and keeping the game open. I know that Italy is much more open than they have been in the past, but we all know that they will close up shop if they need to. I hope that I am wrong, but this just feels like a big cancel each other out match.


Perhaps they know they can't control the game like Spain did against Italy
gougler08
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England going for negative goals
aggiephoenix02
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Boom!
TRM
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England strikes 1st.
twilly
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So much for negative goals

Ranger fans you're not dreaming! The Rangers are the World Series Champions!
OneBlitzer
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Good team goal. Nice finish.
Silvertaps
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Wow! That looked too easy!
ptothemo
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Or England is going to be defensive looking and counter in a flash. They'll score in the second minute.

That's what I said, right???
MB19
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That's why Trippier was put in. Hmmmm.
 
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