***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****

261,978 Views | 2472 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
Complete Idiot
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bobinator said:

Some stray thoughts:

- That was the first time that all of our main characters were in the same location right? Everyone was at the Mesa, even if just fleetingly.


Except for William - the fact that you forgot him, as did I and many others commenting right after the episode - is a testament to how strong this episode was. He has been our entire focus at times but this episode almost made him feel like an afterthought to the entire main plot of the show, which is amazing. I still remember that glimpse of him in the season 2 trailer......

Kiksuya is the title of next week's episode, it means "remember" in the Lakota language. I assume this is in reference to the death of Tallulah Riley, I'll miss her assets to the show.
Brian Earl Spilner
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bobinator said:

- That was the first time that all of our main characters were in the same location right? Everyone was at the Mesa, even if just fleetingly.
Except for William, but close enough.
DannyDuberstein
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William is getting shot up way too often.
bobinator
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Oh yeah... good call. I guess his daughter also wasn't there, though she was conspicuously missing while he almost got gunned down.
Brian Earl Spilner
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bobinator said:

I'm not sure what I think happened there except I'm 100% sure that Bernard/Arnold/Ford or whoever is in that body is lying.
We need a new name.

Fernarnold?

Berforld?
bobinator
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DannyDuberstein said:

William is getting shot up way too often.
Yeah, he's been shot in the arm like five times now.
YellowPot_97
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DannyDuberstein said:

William is getting shot up way too often.

Not if he's a host
Koldus131
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If he's a host it ruins his entire character IMO
DannyDuberstein
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Koldus131 said:

If he's a host it ruins his entire character IMO
Agree 1000%
bobinator
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What makes you say that? I actually think him being a clone/host (whatever we're calling that) makes a lot of sense, even though after last night's episode I now think that it's extremely unlikely.

Part of Ford's monologue included him saying that the copies don't work outside of the virtual world. Any theory that William was a host/clone hinged on Ford being able to do what Delos can't, and as of last night that doesn't appear to be the case.
Joseph Parrish
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bobinator said:

Oh yeah... good call. I guess his daughter also wasn't there, though she was conspicuously missing while he almost got gunned down.
He bailed on her, remember? Would be a little odd if she suddenly showed up.
Joseph Parrish
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DannyDuberstein said:

William is getting shot up way too often.
I think I noticed somebody getting shot in the shoulder and suddenly dying in one of the scenes, yet Williams gets shot to **** and will likely survive.
bobinator
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Would it? I think her whole goal was to get him out of the park, so I assumed she'd follow him which shouldn't be that hard since he's with several other people all on horseback.
Joseph Parrish
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bobinator said:

Would it? I think her whole goal was to get him out of the park, so I assumed she'd follow him which shouldn't be that hard since he's with several other people all on horseback.
I just don't think the disappearing act at the campfire and then suddenly reuniting 1 episode later would really play well. Glad it didn't go that way.
Koldus131
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His entire character in season 1 is built around wanting the stakes in WW to be real and for the hosts to fight back with actual consequences. He's consistently been the only badass human in show, and I think it would be a shame if all of the main characters were hosts.
bobinator
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I think it could work from a character standpoint, I just don't (any longer...) think it can work from a plot mechanics standpoint.
WaltonAg18
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I was a subscriber to the idea that the MIB is William minus his conscience, and that Abernathy was his conscience. Separating the two may have made the cognitive plateau no longer be an issue, but unless he's a host then my suspension of disbelief on his survival is significantly weakening.
No one should have to work to survive. Your right to life should not depend solely on your ability to produce capital.
Zombie Jon Snow
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bobinator said:

What makes you say that? I actually think him being a clone/host (whatever we're calling that) makes a lot of sense, even though after last night's episode I now think that it's extremely unlikely.

Part of Ford's monologue included him saying that the copies don't work outside of the virtual world. Any theory that William was a host/clone hinged on Ford being able to do what Delos can't, and as of last night that doesn't appear to be the case.

Except... why do you assume the William we've seen outside of the park is the same William we are now seeing inside the park?

Nothing to stop there from being a real world William and a park/host William is there?

bobinator
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No, but that's getting into "stuff we've never seen" territory. There are a lot of things that could be possible, but aren't particularly likely.

Plus at this point there are only three episodes left in the season, I don't think there's much room for anything completely out of left field. I think (hope?) all the pieces that are going to be used are already on the board.
Hickory High
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Mantis Toboggan MD said:

Great episode, but is anyone else annoyed with the ineptitude of the Delta team and Delos forces? It's like none of them have held a gun or had any tactical training whatsoever. Also disappointed that Coughlin died so quickly, I thought he'd be a force to be reckoned with.
F'ing this.

It was very Walking Dead-esque. What I've been saying this season is that if they're trying to make the hosts look like an actual threat to the humans, then I'll be very disappointed with the show. So far, it looks like it's headed that direction. If that unit was supposed to be the "best of the best" then the hosts are just going to steamroll right through all 8 billion humans or how ever many humans there are on the planet at that time.
Brian Earl Spilner
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TV Casualty said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:


At first I thought they said the valley contained the host backups, but then they said they were "free" after destroying the cradle. That confused me a bit. If they are free then why do they still need the failsafe?



I think the valley beyond is where they are keeping the backups of human minds from guests at the park and maybe other paying customers. It's also possible that it contains host bodies for those minds to go into once the immortality project has worked through the bugs.

It's possible that if Dolores gets there first that she could use those empty hosts to transfer over the control units of the freed hosts. This is how they can escape out into the real world.

It might also explain the drowned hosts having blank control units. The original ones have been transferred to new bodies and these are brand new unwritten ones.
Forgot to respond - great post and I bet you are 100% correct. The Recappables podcast made this exact same point.

So is the theory that the key in Abernathy's head is needed to actually access that human host backup? (The secondary Cradle.)

It would make sense, but it's a bit odd that this precious (and apparently massive) data that they've been trying to get to all season is actually just a key to where the real data is kept.
bobinator
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The Delos forces didn't bother me as much this episode as they did the attack on the fort, at least a few hosts we know actually died. (RIP Clem)
Brian Earl Spilner
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And this. That attack on the fort is probably the worst thing in the entire series thus far. I still can't explain the sheer stupidity of it.
bobinator
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I think the "key" is more complicated than that. It could be the program that's used to create the control units or integrate them with a body or something along those lines. (Like "the valley beyond" has the hardware, but that's the software.)
Brian Earl Spilner
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Hm. Yeah, could be. Like they key contains the actual human consciousnesses, and the valley just has the empty/virgin host bodies?

Would certainly explain the massive size of it.

Thought it still leaves the question of how exactly the valley is a "weapon" as Dolores has described it.
bobinator
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I keep pointing this out, but it's important to remember that only Dolores is calling it a weapon. Nobody else is thinking of it as a weapon.

Two things I think are possible are that Dolores can use the fact that the consciousnesses are there as blackmail, but a bigger use as a true "weapon" could be that she can upload hosts consciousnesses to the bodies of real humans and put them in the real world. I think it will somehow give her the ability/potential ability create havoc in the real world.
NoHo Hank
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So question about Ford. He uploaded himself into the cradle, and told Bernard last episode that inside the simulation he can continue to survey but he degrades over time in the real world, like Delos. Not sure that makes perfect sense but it's a whatever device from Thank you for smoking. However, following destruction of the cradle, what next for Ford? He's inside Bernard, but is Bernard going to start to degrade? Seems like he would, now that Ford is outside the cradle, right? Maybe an individual host doesn't have sufficient computing power to adapt like a human would and Ford is spread out across a lot of hosts?

Not sure if this'll be a storyline but seems like it could be important.
Mantis Toboggan MD
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gomerschlep said:

Not really, If you can alter attributes in a host like Delores did with Teddy, I'd assume you could just turn up your groups shooting and combat skills to 11 and **** some **** up.

Altering the host's attributes is all well and good, but that shouldn't make the strike teams complete idiots. If anything, it should make for more enthralling gun battles and interactions. Instead, the humans continue to be ill-prepared and just seem to be sitting ducks. The strike team in this episode fell for the response team ambush so easily ("ooh, pile of naked bodies, let's all approach it without clearing the area, this doesn't look suspicious at all") and because they only travel in a blob formation, they get mowed down easily in a matter of seconds.

Also, the guard at the end that's killed by Fordnard. At that point, every human should have a very low index of suspicion for whether an unidentified person is a hostile host ("host-ile"?). Yet, even after displaying suspicious host-like behavior in a tense situation, the mercenary still ends up getting killed despite having his weapon pointed directly at Fordnard and Fordnard needing to stoop down and pick up the gun off the ground to kill him.

Things like this can be mind numbingly frustrating at times for me when watching the show, but overall though it's a small point of contention. I'll keep watching and loving the show regardless.
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bobinator
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Yeah, I'm not sure we can apply anything we know about anything to Ford really. For all we know he's going to have the power to use the mesh network to jump between hosts.
proc
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This whole Ford/Arnold/Bernard thing with real and false memories is getting a little too cutesy, and frankly is ruining a really good show for me.
WaltonAg18
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Elsie made that statement about whatever clogging up the system being out of it, with "the system" being the Cradle. Ford also stated that his mind would degrade if it was in his own host. Jumping on to Bernold seems to give him the separation needed to overcome the plateau, or he may very well begin to degrade between this last episode and Bernold washing up on the beach.
No one should have to work to survive. Your right to life should not depend solely on your ability to produce capital.
TX_AG_10
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Didn't Abernathy seem to clear up right away once Ford was out of the Cradle? Could Ford have been in/apart of Abernathy? Maybe that's what caused Abernathy to degrade..
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Hello old friends.
WaltonAg18
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I noticed that as well, and didn't really make too much sense to me. The key was supposed to be integrated into his chestnut, the Cradle didn't even have a link to the hosts anymore since the network had gone down.
No one should have to work to survive. Your right to life should not depend solely on your ability to produce capital.
bobinator
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TX_AG_10 said:

Didn't Abernathy seem to clear up right away once Ford was out of the Cradle? Could Ford have been in/apart of Abernathy? Maybe that's what caused Abernathy to degrade..
I don't think these two events were related, even though they happened close to each other. We've seen previously (at the fort) that Abernathy will have occasional moments of clarity when Dolores is around.

If he would have cleared up completely then Dolores wouldn't have needed to pull his control unit out of his head.
 
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