Yeah, him not following Dolores' orders could definitely be a break free moment for him.

I dig this idea.

Independent George said:

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Delores mentions that she freed herself with the pull of a trigger, killing Ford, but accidentally started a war.

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I sort of thought that she broke free when she killed Arnold. I think that was the end of the maze and the beginning of her self discovery. Everything since ha built on that awakening.

Teddy's shell maybe but his mind... oh his mind maybe free

I get confused on the timelines. Any way to point me to a link to get straightened out

BBRex said:

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I sort of thought that she broke free when she killed Arnold. I think that was the end of the maze and the beginning of her self discovery. Everything since ha built on that awakening.

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Nah, remember Arnold used the music cue to make her shoot him because he knew she wouldn't.

Something else from episode 3, the guide in Raj world says the "violent delights" line as he's about to shoot Grace. Bernard says it right before Delores shoots Ford. Early in season one it seemed like that phrase was some sort of viral trigger that would change/break the hosts programming. It seemed to sort of lose importance as S1 went on, except at the very end.

So is it Fords code to set off the last narrative? Or maybe it's something old man Delos liked to say...

I've been wondering about that also, that seemed like "THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT" thing early, and then not really, and now maybe so again?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Reddit is great for catching things like this.

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"Not apprehend... dead. Don't care guest. Don't care host. Kill and be killed. Head in a bag"

MGS said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Reddit is great for catching things like this.

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"Not apprehend... dead. Don't care guest. Don't care host. Kill and be killed. Head in a bag"

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My favorite season of a TV show that I've seen.

NM... I get it now - lol

Just caught up on the episode last night and caught up on the thread. My thoughts:

1. "Grace"/Tiger Lady - I assume she's William's daughter. Just makes to much sense. She's clearly a seasoned guest of the park. What is additionally significant about her, assuming William dies at some point (which he has said he will) She becomes the largest shareholder of Delose Corp. making her storyline extremely important.

2. The battle scene at the Fort was just terrible. Not up to HBO standards. It was loosely set up and the way it played out made all the sides look stupid and me as a viewer feel cheated. We are supposed to believe the characters and factions in the world have a purpose and a plan and then we see a poorly thought out, thrown together battle? I love the show so I'll allow it, but a poor moment for the show.

3. I'm sure it's been discussed on this thread, but I'm assuming aside from containing a bunch of guests stolen private data, Peter Abernathy also has James Delose's consciousness/DNA in some way. Delores is his host daughter, William was married to his real daughter. He went haywire last season when he saw what we can assume was a picture of his daughter/Williams wife.

4. Is Bernard in the most current timeline actually Bernard's consciousness? The "What do you think Bernard?" question from Charlotte seemed really odd. It seems in the newest timeline Charlotte could know he is a host. If that's true, what had to happen for that to occur?

5. Ghost Nation is clearly separate from normal hosts. Protectors of humans? Not sure. But not playing by the same rules as everyone else, yes.

5. Hopefully, the Mauve storyline picks up and it looks like it's about to. Her character hasn't really done anything, just had things happen to her. I think that changes soon.

TexjbA&M said:

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4. Is Bernard in the most current timeline actually Bernard's consciousness? The "What do you think Bernard?" question from Charlotte seemed really odd. It seems in the newest timeline Charlotte could know he is a host. If that's true, what had to happen for that to occur?

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Felt the same way... despite the fact I was adamantly against the theory that she knew he was a host prior to the episode - I'm leaning that way now.

- Yeah I floated that idea last week as a possibility but I'm absolutely convinced it's true now. I think basically everyone in the most-present timeline knows that Bernard is a host. That's why I think when she said "he keeps slipping away..." I think she's talking about Bernard's mind slipping and not Abernathy. I also think that Stubbs is working against the Delos folks.

- I like the idea that Abernathy (and maybe now Bernard?) is carrying James Delos' consciousness but I don't agree that it was always in Abernathy like a lot of people are suggesting. I know that the picture completely throwing him off is a big clue in this theory's corner, but remember that after that whole incident Abernathy got drilled in the head/retired. If Delos' consciousness were in there, why would they let that happen? And whatever he has inside of him was put there by Charlotte last season.

I know this is a dumb question before I ask it, and I'm sure there's some detail I'm forgetting, but -- how did Dolores know about the Delos attack, and where exactly it would be?

Or was she simply preparing for the inevitable retaliation and decided to hole up at the Fort and use the confederados as meat shields?

She definitely didn't know they were coming for Abernathy.

Definitely agree that the battle overall was pretty crappy for HBO standards. (And even Westworld standards.)

The Delos team showed ZERO ability to strategize or even use the cover of night to their advantage. I'm hoping that some reason for this is revealed later.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I know this is a dumb question before I ask it, and I'm sure there's some detail I'm forgetting, but -- how did Dolores know about the Delos attack, and where exactly it would be?

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Not a dumb question, If I'm reading it right, it's from when young William showed her early on when the park was being built in episode 2 of this season, with the big earth movers. Williams "greatest mistake"/weapon whatever it is.

The guy they tortured in the white goo. Knew I was forgetting something. Thanks.

Quote:

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Didn't she interrogate a guy and he told her the plan? (I'm assuming you mean the attack on the fort?)

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That's right I forgot that. So what about Williams greatest mistake/weapon? Is that where Delores is currently ultimately headed and the fort happened to be a battle spot along the way?

I think Delores used them as meat shields, not everyone will make it to the promised land and she is on a mission to kill host and human that doesn't meet her 'standard'. She was able to delay the humans and take out a rival party that doesn't fit into her plans. In that vein, so long Teddy it was nice knowing you...

I've been avoiding wading into the reddit wormhole? Should I?

Dolores and William seem to be racing toward the same thing, which we don't know what exactly it is yet, but Dolores also knows that Delos is going to be sending someone in to take them out, something that William doesn't have to worry as much about.

But that's kind of what makes this battle confusing to me. The whole point of Dolores and company going there was to get more men because the guy they interrogated in the white goo stuff said they'd be sending 600-800 men. Teddy says "we'll need allies" and she says "we shall have them" and then they go on the whole arc of getting the Confedorados to follow Dolores.

But in the end she sacrifices them all anyway against a small strike force of Delos guys. In fact she even tells Teddy to kill the ones that did survive. So what was even the point of all that?

It's a deep rabbit hole over there. If you go to deep, you'll probably come across all the big twists that someone will eventually figure out. I try to limit my time there.

It's a fair question, I'm a bit confused about it, too.

I listened to the Ringers theories podcasts which was pretty good. I'm not the only one who thinks Elsie is either controlling or working with the Ghost Nation.

Reddit just has too much though. I maybe click on there once each week to see what the big theories are, but it's too exhausting.

she doesn't want all the hosts in her group, she just wants the ones totally devoted to her and her cause. She intended to use the Confederados against the strike team and make sure that there were no survivors. It is a lot like the red-white war in 1919 Russia, the hosts are going to break into rival groups, Delores is going to wipe out humans and hosts to get what she wants. Which i think is her leaving to the world and i'm not sure see wants anyone left to go with her.

Could it be Dolores plans to reboot all the dead Confederados and change their settings?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Could it be Dolores plans to reboot all the dead Confederados and change their settings?

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It that was the case, she wouldn't have had to kill the ones from Episode 2. They would have already be changed to her needs.