***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****

256,045 Views | 2472 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
Complete Idiot
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Emily took William

Charlotte discovered Maeve's ability to control other hosts

Those the bigger plot lines advanced that I can think of
bobinator
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AG
Nobody else seems to care about this so I don't want to drag the thread down with it anymore. It doesn't really matter.
Complete Idiot
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bobinator said:

I will say that I've done another 180 on this and now I'm back in on William being a host.
Thats funny, I've flipped to him not being a host. I could be wrong but it seems that once a host sees an image of the maze it triggers an awakening in them - I know William has seen it but it doesn't seem to have the same impact. But what initially made me think he was a host was the fact Ford had such a special interest in him, stating "the game was for him", etc - I still don't get all that if he's not a host. Unless Ford just wanted to kind of taunt and torture him. While in the cradle and controlling various characters Ford could have killed him at any time, if that was his goal.

I'll probably go watch the Ford/William bar scene again.
aTmAg
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AG
bobinator said:

Nobody else seems to care about this so I don't want to drag the thread down with it anymore. It doesn't really matter.
Agreed
Mike Elko
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AG
Enjoyable episode. Some of y'all read way too much into tiny slices of this show.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Was there any significance to Maeve at the end? "Take my heart in its place."

Did her consciousness enter Akecheta's wife? Or was she just accessing her memories?
Complete Idiot
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Was there any significance to Maeve at the end? "Take my heart in its place."

Did her consciousness enter Akecheta's wife? Or was she just accessing her memories?
She was seeing through Akecheta and talking him him
Joseph Parrish
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AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:

Was there any significance to Maeve at the end? "Take my heart in its place."

Did her consciousness enter Akecheta's wife? Or was she just accessing her memories?
I took it as acknowledgement she was listening to Aketcheta's story through her daughter the entire time. Don't think it'll go as far as making her the wife.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
If anything, wouldn't it have been her daughter? As that was the response to what Akecheta was saying.

However, there's never been any indication that Maeve could access hosts that far away. Was there any reason given for this? Was she plugged into something that allowed her to do that? The mesh network, as far as we know, only applies to hosts in your immediate area.
bobinator
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AG
What brought me back is thinking about Bernard. The reason that Bernard works, where Delos doesn't, is that he's not an exact copy of Arnold. As Ford pointed out, he's an entirely new work.

I think the same is true of William. He's not exactly the old William.
Joseph Parrish
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AG
Complete Idiot said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Was there any significance to Maeve at the end? "Take my heart in its place."

Did her consciousness enter Akecheta's wife? Or was she just accessing her memories?
She was seeing through Akecheta and talking him him
I think it was the daughter, why would they show that shot through the daughter's eyes?
bobinator
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AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:

If anything, wouldn't it have been her daughter? As that was the response to what Akecheta was saying.

However, there's never been any indication that Maeve could access hosts that far away. Was there any reason given for this? Was she plugged into something that allowed her to do that? The mesh network, as far as we know, only applies to hosts in your immediate area.
Eh, not exactly. It applies to hosts in your immediate area, but if theoretically there were a chain of hosts between her and wherever, it would still work. We don't know exactly what "immediate area" means here right?
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Yeah, that's a good point. I hadn't considered she could be going through a bunch of hosts, like an actual mesh.
Complete Idiot
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bobinator said:

What brought me back is thinking about Bernard. The reason that Bernard works, where Delos doesn't, is that he's not an exact copy of Arnold. As Ford pointed out, he's an entirely new work.

I think the same is true of William. He's not exactly the old William.
And yes I again watched the Ford/William scene and Ford says "I don't have the imagination to even conceive of a person like you" - not sure if you can really take anything from that. Definitely scenes in various trailers that indicate the next two episodes will tell us what is what with William.
Complete Idiot
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Fair enough, I said Akecheta but when watching my only real takeaway was she was "there" with them in some manner. The last scene almost seemed like a death scene for Maeve but apparently that is not the case.

Don't know what the future holds for her but she seems more powerful than Dolores, due to her meshing ability, and could see a good vs evil Maeve vs Dolores at some point.
bobinator
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AG
So, wild speculation time:

He doesn't know that he's a host. As punishment for who he's been all these years though, the hosts and his daughter aren't going to let him die. He has to continue living inside the park. A sort of hell for him.

When he figures it out, he'll try to kill himself (we've actually seen him point a gun at his own head in the trailer) and it won't let him. Ford will have programmed that in that he can't shoot himself. His ultimate fate will be up to the hosts. So they will "choose how his story ends" as Ford has alluded to a few times.
aTmAg
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AG
But they wouldn't punishing the guy, they would be punishing a robot copy of the guy.

If I go on an evil killing spree, then somebody takes my brain and duplicates it into a robot, and then peacefully die of a stroke while standing on a beautiful beach in Brazil (like Mengele)... no matter what punishment you inflict on that robot, it's still not punishing me. You are just punishing a copy of me. I still went out living the good life.
bobinator
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I think that's going to be part of the galaxy-brain-type conversation that the hosts are going to have about what to do with him.
Complete Idiot
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bobinator said:

So, wild speculation time:

He doesn't know that he's a host. As punishment for who he's been all these years though, the hosts and his daughter aren't going to let him die. He has to continue living inside the park. A sort of hell for him.

When he figures it out, he'll try to kill himself (we've actually seen him point a gun at his own head in the trailer) and it won't let him. Ford will have programmed that in that he can't shoot himself. His ultimate fate will be up to the hosts. So they will "choose how his story ends" as Ford has alluded to a few times.
I like wild speculation.

Are you thinking it's "HIM him" or Bernard-like copy of him. If a copy, still capable of feeling pain and loss but on the metaphysical universal karma level or whatever it's not really him paying the price.

If not "HIM him" then I think his daughter would be aware, if it's a copy I'm not so sure she'd be intent on torturing him - or whatever she was implying.
bobinator
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AG
What exactly the daughter is planning is the missing part of my wild speculation. I don't have any sort of good feeling about what's going on there yet.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
This has been a trope of Black Mirror. It's a fair question.
No1home
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I guess I'm the only one who took the ending to mean Akecheta had been telling his story not to Maeves daughter, but to Maeve herself. It was Maeve he had tried to protect all those years.
Joseph Parrish
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No1home said:

I guess I'm the only one who took the ending to mean Akecheta had been telling his story not to Maeves daughter, but to Maeve herself. It was Maeve he had tried to protect all those years.
I thought it was pretty clear he knew he was talking to Maeve as well.
TX_AG_10
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Put me in the camp of really enjoying this episode. Regardless of logistics and how Akecheta got to cold storage, the scene with him and Kohana was incredible. I felt more empathy for the host more than any other story line in the season. Also Delores as Deathbringer.. interesting nomenclature.
Brian Earl Spilner
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From Ford's speech in the S1 finale.

Quote:

'Cause you don't want to change, or cannot change. Because you're only human after all. But then I realized someone was paying attention, someone who could change. So I began to compose a new story for them. It begins with the birth of a new people and the choices they will have to make. And the people, they will decide to become.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Nice broken-down summary of everything we learned this episode. (From Reddit)

The Man in Black Lives
We saw at the very start of this episode that the Man in Black did survive his wounds received last episode.

Ghost Nation is saving guests in the here and now
The Leader of the Ghost Nation , Akecheta (played by Zahn McClarnon), finds the Man in Black near death by the river and saves him. He tells him he does not deserve the escape that death provides. This confirms the theory that the Ghost Nation are gong around saving humans, albeit with a somewhat darker purpose. They may also be hoping to get help finding the door.

How the Ghost Nation got the Maze Symbol
Akecheta wandered into the town with the white church following the original massacre that left Arnold dead. There he saw the maze game Arnold had shown Dolores, and became obsessed with it, and started putting it everywhere.

They majorly revamped the Ghost Nation storyline when the Park opened
The Ghost Nation/Native population of Westworld was peaceful and pastoral before the park opened. The writers turned them into killers so the guests could kill them without guilt in the early days of the park - before William visited for the first time.

What happened to Logan after we left him at the end of season one
He went pretty crazy; likely an effect of exposure and dehydration. Akecheta found him, and left him for the QA people to find. His babbling sparked recognition in Akecheta; he returned to his original home and realized he had once lived a different life. When Akecheta returned to find him, he was gone, and they were building something where he had been (maybe the Mesa, by the look of it?)

Akecheta has been aware of his reality far longer than we might expect
He would keep himself alive so that he would not be reset, and would not lose his memories of his family. He managed to stay alive for nine years. Eventually, he realized his only hope of finding Kohana was to die and be taken below. When the techs realized how long he had been out, they updated him without a full rebuild, which gave him the opportunity to see the whole lab setup and the rest of HQ.He found Kohana in cold storage, but was unable to rescue her.

Lee Sizemore might be marginally smarter than previously thought
When he insisted on saving Maeve last episode, many thought he had simply become emotionally attached. We now know that he recognized her ability to control hosts as a potential tool, and hopes to use her to regain control. He's also emotionally attached though, and didn't foresee them just breaking her down for parts, so judge him as you like.

Why the dealer had the Maze on the inside of his scalp
Akecheta had been carving the maze symbol into the inside of Ghost Nation scalps, where they could not be found and taken away by the techs.

Why the Ghost Nation attacked Maeve's homestead
It never really made sense that Maeve and her daughter would be attacked by Ghost Nation in their supposedly PG-rated corner of the park. The answer is that they weren't actually attacking. Akecheta was using the symbol to teach hosts of their own potential. He wanted to teach Maeve's daughter and keep her safe, which is why he came to the homestead.

Akecheta can communicate with Maeve through the mesh network
We see this at the end of the episode when he tells her they will protect her daughter.

Maeve might be able to access pretty much all the hosts stories
Her ability to access stories and dialogue of other hosts when she quotes Kohana at the end of the episode.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
The fly on Akecheta's hand, symbolizing the "disease" spreading from host to host.



Good *****
oragator
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It is currently the second highest rated episode of the series on IMDB, behind the season 1 finale. At a solid 9.5.

I do get that it had flaws, I felt the same watching it. But the positives out did those many times over.
bobinator
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AG
I did like the way this episode was (almost) completely linear for once and had basically one point of view instead of jumping around all over the place.

I was actually wondering if that might not be how they do the next season. The first several episodes could be from the perspective of specific characters, but you don't get the full picture of what's happening until like four or five episodes in when the stories converge or something.

Buck O Five
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Bernard, Dolores and Maeve all had carefully calibrated interactions with real humans, often scripted.

For Akecheta, he stumbled on the symbol by accident, and all Ford had to do was let him wander unobstructed.

Dolores is still acting like Wyatt, Maeve stuck on the cornerstone of her daughter, Bernard is...damaged? Only Akacheta broke his loop with his wife and has been working autonomously on a goal of his own creation.
bobinator
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AG
Eh... I don't know how we can definitively say that Dolores is working toward a goal she didn't create while Akecheta is.

I think the opposite of both is possible. Dolores remembers "the weapon" from her past, so I think it's possible that her goal is one she set even if her personality is still like Wyatt.

Meanwhile Ford told Akecheta in this episode what to do when the "deathbringer" returned. "When the Deathbringer returns for me, you will know to gather your people and lead them to a new world. Keep watching, Akecheta, for a while longer."

So he very clearly gave Akecheta a goal, which means he didn't exactly autonomously create it.
BBRex
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I'm probably slow on this, but I've been so focused on the man figure in the middle of the maze that I didn't notice the bottom where the legs are seems to form an empty eye socket while the head and arms form an eye with the pupil in it. Sort of cool imagery.
AgLiving06
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So how did Emily know to come to Ghost Nation with a second horse for William?

The scene was so quick it was as if it was almost planned.
claym711
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bobinator said:

Eh... I don't know how we can definitively say that Dolores is working toward a goal she didn't create while Akecheta is.

I think the opposite of both is possible. Dolores remembers "the weapon" from her past, so I think it's possible that her goal is one she set even if her personality is still like Wyatt.

Meanwhile Ford told Akecheta in this episode what to do when the "deathbringer" returned. "When the Deathbringer returns for me, you will know to gather your people and lead them to a new world. Keep watching, Akecheta, for a while longer."

So he very clearly gave Akecheta a goal, which means he didn't exactly autonomously create it.


Akecheta already had that goal. And only way Ford could have know that Delores would bring death is if he scripted it.
Counterpoint
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aTmAg said:

But they wouldn't punishing the guy, they would be punishing a robot copy of the guy.

If I go on an evil killing spree, then somebody takes my brain and duplicates it into a robot, and then peacefully die of a stroke while standing on a beautiful beach in Brazil (like Mengele)... no matter what punishment you inflict on that robot, it's still not punishing me. You are just punishing a copy of me. I still went out living the good life.
Black Mirror, anyone?

edit: Spilner beat me to it.
 
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