The first time we met adult Emily, the captions had her named Grace.bobinator said:
The weird thing about it is, if I recall correctly, nobody else in the captions is ever referred to by name.
***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****
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The captions should show who is speaking anytime multiple characters are on the screen and it isnt clear, or if the person speaking is not pictured on the screen, but probably wont say Bernard if the screen has a close up of Bernards face talking right?
I'm slightly annoyed at the potential of information being in the close captions though, thats not part of the show and Im not going to watch with them.
I'm slightly annoyed at the potential of information being in the close captions though, thats not part of the show and Im not going to watch with them.
I think this is more likely the situation. I randomly put captions on this time because I thought I missed something, and I noticed the Hale part. Also if you watch online, it gives you the character list when you hit pause. It gives first and last names, so it wasn't that odd for me to see a last name on the captions.JJxvi said:
The captions should show who is speaking anytime multiple characters are on the screen and it isnt clear, or if the person speaking is not pictured on the screen, but probably wont say Bernard if the screen has a close up of Bernards face talking right?
I'm slightly annoyed at the potential of information being in the close captions though, thats not part of the show and Im not going to watch with them.
We put the captions on and keep the volume pretty low when we discovered our 5 year old had watched season 1 episodes 1-5 with us from a distance.
He liked the music he heard and came to see what it was. I think the cowboys and boobies kept his interest.
He liked the music he heard and came to see what it was. I think the cowboys and boobies kept his interest.
He's probably seen worse on the news! Robots with boobs is probably easier to explain than men with boobs.dlance said:
We put the captions on and keep the volume pretty low when we discovered our 5 year old had watched season 1 episodes 1-5 with us from a distance.
He liked the music he heard and came to see what it was. I think the cowboys and boobies kept his interest.
I didn't notice them put any other names on the captions, even when there were multiple people on the screen, the captions would just move around based on where the people speaking where. That's why it jumped out to me so much I think.
But I'm trying not to read too much into the captions because that could just be a mistake. But even without the captions, I still think the Elsie stuff is weird.
Another weird thing I didn't even include in the last list is that we haven't seen Bernard and Elsie interact with a single other person or host yet other than a drone host in the bunker right? Stubbs and Charlotte are in the Mesa with several other people, and yet Elsie and Bernard don't run into anyone while they're there or on their way to the Cradle?
But I'm trying not to read too much into the captions because that could just be a mistake. But even without the captions, I still think the Elsie stuff is weird.
Another weird thing I didn't even include in the last list is that we haven't seen Bernard and Elsie interact with a single other person or host yet other than a drone host in the bunker right? Stubbs and Charlotte are in the Mesa with several other people, and yet Elsie and Bernard don't run into anyone while they're there or on their way to the Cradle?
dlance said:
He liked the music he heard and came to see what it was. I think the cowboys and boobies kept his interest.
More proof that S2 has lost its way. They have a formula for printing money and yet they are going down monotonous storylines that need to get to a point.
I'll double down on my "the only thing worth watching for is the MIB doing western stuff" comment.
Sure ain't getting none of that this season. This season it's just cowboys and cranks (which sounds like a sketchy porno.)Quote:
I think the cowboys and boobies kept his interest.
Bernard got dragged to that cave by the zombie hooker.
JJxvi said:
The captions should show who is speaking anytime multiple characters are on the screen and it isnt clear, or if the person speaking is not pictured on the screen, but probably wont say Bernard if the screen has a close up of Bernards face talking right?
I'm slightly annoyed at the potential of information being in the close captions though, thats not part of the show and Im not going to watch with them.
I always watch with CC on. Helps me catch small things I just miss sometimes. Especially on Brit shows.
And yeah that's usually how it works. If the speaker is offscreen or you cannot see who is talking they will preface it with the characters name. The names are not usually there.
It rarely results in a spoiler. In fact it usually adds clarity if anything. There was a discussion here back on one of the first episodes of S2 about something Bernard said about killing the hosts and I confirmed that by what was in the CC.
Yeah I wasn't counting Clem since she left before he found Elsie, but thats the only "person" they've encountered
Forgot a major one... They also tango with the corrupt James Delos. Which actually grounds that storyline in reality somewhat. (I think?)
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/28/17401860/westworld-season-2-episode-6-recap-phase-space
Interesting Article. It might have been discussed on here and I missed it. Specifically regarding the two "Bernards". Maybe the confused Bernard that woke up on the beach is actually a fully functioning host with Arnold's conscious successfully implanted. Delores is obviously trying to test/create Bernard for Fidelity as we saw from this past episode. Maybe she was successful?
Again, maybe this was a huge plot point and I just missed it but it certainly sounds like strong possibility.
Interesting Article. It might have been discussed on here and I missed it. Specifically regarding the two "Bernards". Maybe the confused Bernard that woke up on the beach is actually a fully functioning host with Arnold's conscious successfully implanted. Delores is obviously trying to test/create Bernard for Fidelity as we saw from this past episode. Maybe she was successful?
Again, maybe this was a huge plot point and I just missed it but it certainly sounds like strong possibility.
My main issue with all of the Arnold theories is how exactly was Ford able to create a backup of him? They weren't able to do this with James Delos until several years after the park was open, and Arnold died before that.
That's a good point.. You would think Arnold would have to give some sort of consent to create a back up. Wouldn't surprise me though if Ford figured out some way to do it. He's very cunning and makes sure he always get's what he wants.
Yeah, I'll be annoyed if they go the "trying to bring back Arnold route" unless they specifically explain its a different method. Like instead of trying to place Arnold's brain in a robot body (which is a technology that I'll be annoyed about if it predates Delos involvement), what they are actually trying to do is take all of the data they have on Arnold (through the hosts and Ford's memories of interactions with him) and create an AI copy of him based on analysis of all that data.
I've actually wondered if that might be the case, and it would potentially explore some of the central themes of this show.
Like, what makes a person who they are? Is it how they interact with others? Can you reverse engineer a person's consciousness based on that? You can certainly try, but if you fail and the consciousness you've created isn't what you expected, do you have the right to destroy it? There's a lot to potentially explore there, but like you said they'd need to give us that background.
One thing I think we can safely say is that, for better or worse, we're six episodes into this season and it's not clear at all how this season fits together. So they've successfully kept people from guessing so far. Even the very best theories I've heard don't link all the pieces together.
Like, what makes a person who they are? Is it how they interact with others? Can you reverse engineer a person's consciousness based on that? You can certainly try, but if you fail and the consciousness you've created isn't what you expected, do you have the right to destroy it? There's a lot to potentially explore there, but like you said they'd need to give us that background.
One thing I think we can safely say is that, for better or worse, we're six episodes into this season and it's not clear at all how this season fits together. So they've successfully kept people from guessing so far. Even the very best theories I've heard don't link all the pieces together.
Disclaimer, discussion of **** as if the show is real and not just made up by writers follows...
I have to say that it would be a hard way to do it. People's responses are generally a product of their experiences, so it seems like they would need to be able to put in all of Arnold's memories to suitably reproduce him (as it would seem they did with Delos through what I assume is like a brain scan). I guess if they had pretty much every interaction he had for several years recorded (which they might) they could have enough data to simulate a backstory of things they dont know about that would produce what they know to be the correct responses.
Then a problem with that is they dont really have a giant databank of people's memories combined with their current responses in order to analyze all that, unless they have been scanning and filtering out people's memories (from even outside the park) somehow this whole time. All Ford has at his disposal in the Cradle are the responses and memories of all the hosts, plus his own, but all of those responses are based on made up backstories, and not real experience except his own, and their memories of how real people responded, but for those he doesnt have records of the experiences outside the park that created those responses.
I have to say that it would be a hard way to do it. People's responses are generally a product of their experiences, so it seems like they would need to be able to put in all of Arnold's memories to suitably reproduce him (as it would seem they did with Delos through what I assume is like a brain scan). I guess if they had pretty much every interaction he had for several years recorded (which they might) they could have enough data to simulate a backstory of things they dont know about that would produce what they know to be the correct responses.
Then a problem with that is they dont really have a giant databank of people's memories combined with their current responses in order to analyze all that, unless they have been scanning and filtering out people's memories (from even outside the park) somehow this whole time. All Ford has at his disposal in the Cradle are the responses and memories of all the hosts, plus his own, but all of those responses are based on made up backstories, and not real experience except his own, and their memories of how real people responded, but for those he doesnt have records of the experiences outside the park that created those responses.
We do know that Ford is definitely interested in recreating Arnold and always has been. Thats the only explanation for why Bernard exists in the first place.
I think you might be dead on, which is why they keep failing with Arnold, they don't have his memories so they can't do it like they (maybe...?) can with others. They can try and simulate as much as they want, but without those memories, it's just not possible.
In a way I think we see that with Maeve and Dolores, that even free of their programming, their personalities are still bound to those core memories even though they know they aren't "real."
In a way I think we see that with Maeve and Dolores, that even free of their programming, their personalities are still bound to those core memories even though they know they aren't "real."
It also goes back to the reveries code that kicked off the whole thing. Reveries were just basically linking current physical responses back to old memories of **** that had happened to them instead of all responses being based on the coded backstory.
Discussions like this are why I go back and forth on if I like how this show is being laid out. Trying to guess how all of the pieces fit together is certainly fun, but it diminishes the exploration of some of the themes of the show and the characters themselves.
I wish the ringer would post the recappables theories podcast already... I need some fresh theories...
Yes, it's possible the show creators are more interested in the philosophical discussions of self and consciousness rather than in creating a tight, fluid storyline going. Not saying that is the case, but the Shogun World with the asian counterpart characters would kind of suggest that.bobinator said:
Discussions like this are why I go back and forth on if I like how this show is being laid out. Trying to guess how all of the pieces fit together is certainly fun, but it diminishes the exploration of some of the themes of the show and the characters themselves.
I think the close to the season will be entertaining, perhaps not fully satisfying as far as explaining all the wild theories and side stories, but entertaining and a good set up to season 3.
There's definitely something there with William and Emily having different memories of her being afraid of the elephants, right?
Is that a clue that one of them is a host, or a red herring?
Is that a clue that one of them is a host, or a red herring?
'Westworld,' S2E6: "Phase Space"bobinator said:
I wish the ringer would post the recappables theories podcast already... I need some fresh theories...
Also, Bernard definitely transferred whatever was in Abernathy's mind to himself, right?
Which means that Ford's consciousness was probably what it contained, and was brought into the cradle by Bernard when he plugged in.
Which means that Ford's consciousness was probably what it contained, and was brought into the cradle by Bernard when he plugged in.
Earlier in the episode we saw Bernard in the Cradle and as he is walking by he picks up a small sphere and puts it in his coat pocket. later on with Elise when he uploads himself into the Cradle the machine cuts his head open and removes this same type of sphere. I'm guess this is like his conscience, so who's did he pocket?
That's their recap episode, not the theories episode. Each week they do a recap on Monday and a theories one on Tuesday (though apparently the holiday weekend threw their schedule off this week, as did the fact that starting this week they have to watch the episodes the same time as the rest of us.)
Brian Earl Spilner said:
There's definitely something there with William and Emily having different memories of her being afraid of the elephants, right?
Is that a clue that one of them is a host, or a red herring?
I took that as a test....
William thought she was a host and was testing her by saying something he knew to be wrong - about a fear more than a specific memory. Not sure fears are retained by hosts but I doubt it.
Or it was simply that he is a bad father and could not recall who that attribute belonged to.
William already thinks she's a host, it could also just be him trying to trip her up and being mildly surprised she got the right answer.Brian Earl Spilner said:
There's definitely something there with William and Emily having different memories of her being afraid of the elephants, right?
Is that a clue that one of them is a host, or a red herring?
Honestly, if there is any plot significance there it is really lazy writing. They are talking about events that happened IN THE PARK. If one or the other were a host, they would damn sure know the correct version of events, because it would be programmed right in from the parks memory banks. It would be different if they had a different recollection of something that happened outside the parks.
That wasn't the cradle, right? From my understanding:Cibalo said:
Earlier in the episode we saw Bernard in the Cradle and as he is walking by he picks up a small sphere and puts it in his coat pocket. later on with Elise when he uploads himself into the Cradle the machine cuts his head open and removes this same type of sphere. I'm guess this is like his conscience, so who's did he pocket?
The Cradle=Database where all of the park's host IP is stored. ie a hard drive containing the programming for backup or current build copies of every host, in this case personified as a computer simulation of the park itself.
The place where Bernard got the sphere was the Delos immortality project. He got it as it printed out from a device that created host style "brain spheres" but instead of host brains, they are copies of human brains. My assumption as the "default assumption" right now is that under Ford's control, Bernard went to the immortality project killed almost everyone there, and printed out a brain copy, presumably Fords, which he then could have taken to the cradle and loaded into the system.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Also, Bernard definitely transferred whatever was in Abernathy's mind to himself, right?
Which means that Ford's consciousness was probably what it contained, and was brought into the cradle by Bernard when he plugged in.
This is blowing my mind and I'm trying to figure out if it's possible or not.
To be possible, it hinges on there being a backup of Ford's consciousness that Hale could access and that Ford couldn't protect, which seems unlikely right? Because whatever data was going into Abernathy was going in before anyone knew that Ford was going to get himself killed. So she'd have to be able to access this data without Ford realizing it.
But, at least from what we know, Ford was already in the cradle before Bernard jacked in.
Good point.JJxvi said:
Honestly, if there is any plot significance there it is really lazy writing. They are talking about events that happened IN THE PARK. If one or the other were a host, they would damn sure know the correct version of events, because it would be programmed right in from the parks memory banks. It would be different if they had a different recollection of something that happened outside the parks.
I wonder if Delores/Wyatt intends to destroy the cradle and its data backups, essentially making the robots (whichever ones still are alive) the only copies left of themselves, so basically they would only exist in real, tangible forms, could never have their default's written back over their brains etc.
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