What was the Rick and Morty reference?

Yeah, I think that's where I'm at with it too. It just seemed all too sudden.

jamaggie06 said:

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If he killed his daughter, I will be pissed.

To pull a plotline like that, we needed more history, more development of his daughter's character. And we needed to see more of his decent into madness; that he can't tell real from Westworld. We've never seen him question a person or host like that before. I would have liked to see a previous encounter with a tech or a merc, where he doesn't believe its real and kills/wounds them first. It seemed like he has always been quite informed as to hosts and humans. It was too sudden, and lacked the development it should have if it was genuine.

After losing his wife, even if you were "sure"... to really pull the trigger like that. It seemed out of place. He has doubts about himself. Why would he have no doubts about her?

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He had accused her of being a host in previous episodes, called her Ford and questioned whether she was part of Ford's game.

Successful formula:

MIB and Lawrence doing bad-ass western ****
T&A
Young William and Delores
Robots coming to grips with their true being

Seems like they should have drawn out S1 a lot more over several seasons... the sci-fi stuff is not as compelling and the plot lines have gigantic holes. So bad that the audience will accept that there are killer old west sex robots in revolt against humankind, but the humans do such ridiculous and implausible things that it ruins it.

Re: the preview for the finale... I mean, this is a straight up, Truman Show-esque, edge-of-the-bio-dome tear, is it not?

Though, in the trailer from a couple weeks ago, from further away, it looks more like some kind of contrail or smoke beam than it does an actual tear...

Champ Bailey said:

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What was the Rick and Morty reference?

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Mind blowers

Just checked the guide and the finale is one and a half hours long.

jamaggie06 said:

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If he killed his daughter, I will be pissed.

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It's very possible that she isn't dead. This show has shot other people to **** and they've still survived (ex: MIB himself).

After last night I think it's going to be left intentionally unclear, at least for one more season, on if he's a host or not.

Although I think Emily has to be real, otherwise all of that stuff at The Raj was an epic waste of screen time.

The idea that "T&A" is somehow crucial to the formula for this show is borderline offensive.

Champ Bailey said:

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The lyrics to Hurt do pretty accurately describe William.

I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liars chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
If I could start again
A million miles away
I will keep myself
I would find a way

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And of course it would have to be the Johnny Cash version!

I guess I don't have a good feel for how anything is going to go, not even having fun speculating at this point. You have to wonder why Ford would be so intent on one final game for William and why when scanning William they specifically showed "no ordnance" or whatever - of course, it could be a nugget from the show runners to keep you guessing. I don't know if I agree on the "theyll drag out the host/human william debate until next season" since he was digging into his arm in this episode. I still don't - and this is probably just a huge failing on my part - fully understand the purpose of the Valley cradle holding the humans. Is it an immortality project, a replace and control project, both? I had always assumed immortality project but it was done without the awareness of the guests and they aren't making money off that.

I understand now Clementine is a weapon against the hosts, and fairly successful based on some trailer imagery, but Maeve gets away. A bit humanizing for Ford to see his moment with Maeve, not sure what he has unlocked in her however. Looks like we'll finally get back to the beach scene in the finale, still curious what Ford's goals are given his feelings about Maeve and his involvement with Bernard. It does seem Delores is Arnold's tool - trying to destroy the world - while Ford wants to free them and create a better species. Seems like Ford could do more to ensure that but is leaving some free will (maybe not) choices to the hosts he's involved with. I see some William/Delores scenes in the trailer - which should be interesting - and they both seem intent on destroying things so maybe they pair up again? William thought he saw Delores at a party and told his wife he does not belong to her, but instead another - which I would take to mean he still had a thing for DElores but preview shows him holding a gun to her head.

More inept security forces - team of four taken out by multiple gunshot victim old guy.

Complete Idiot said:

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More inept security forces - team of four taken out by multiple gunshot victim old guy.

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So this has at least some explanation in that they scanned him and saw that he's human (as far as they know.) They have no reason to think a human, especially a really important one that they recognize, would shoot other humans.

Not really a point dwelling on, but it's one thing when the MiB is taking out multiple hosts of which many are designed not to be the best shot... It's another thing when a near-death MiB is taking out 4 members of a security team that aren't sure if Emily is a host, and aren't sure if William is in his right mind...


... BUT... it's hard to know if it's a nit worth picking until we know if William is a host or not and what kind attributes he may have.

Robert C. Christian said:

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I love HBO Father's Day episodes. Nothing like fathers killing their daughters. (Game of Thrones and WW)

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Game of Thrones was son killing his father - Tyrion killing Tywin. Not father/daughter.

The Shireen/Stannis episode (different season) was not Father's Day but the week before. Maybe celebrating early?

It's pretty wild that there's one episode left and I/we have absolutely no idea of what's about to happen.

bobinator said:

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It's pretty wild that there's one episode left and I/we have absolutely no idea of what's about to happen.

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I can't even conceive of what Season 3 will cover

Complete Idiot said:

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I think the confusing timelines have worked against the show this season, worked better in season 1.

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Agree with this. I see where parts of it needed to be chopped up, but they got too carried away with it. There are some that I don't think added any value to the narrative and mostly just confused the viewer.

I agree with that also, I think they got way too cute this season trying to make it impossible to guess the plot. It's hard to care about the characters, which is a shame because some of the acting has been tremendous, when you're not sure what it is they're trying to do or what the stakes really are.

Agree. When we started watching last night my wife and I were discussing how we aren't really attached to any character, which is disappointing. I am in to the season to see how the plot plays out and what the twist/reveals are, but don't really care too much for any one character.

bobinator said:

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It's pretty wild that there's one episode left and I/we have absolutely no idea of what's about to happen.

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I'm hoping that's wild in a good way, but I think it's probably actually a bad thing and a sign that this story has gotten far too convoluted.

Yeah, Bernard's storyline is an absolute mess and since he's one of the driving forces in the narrative, the entire show becomes a mess with it.

Yeah, I mean that's the risk they've taken by doing the show this way is that the finale has to make all of the other confusion pay off. If you're going to make untwisting the plot mechanics the centerpiece of the show, then it's gotta be worth it.

A good example of going the other way is Game of Thrones, where the characters have been so carefully developed over time that the show can survive some occasional plot mechanic shenanigans.

Well, Ford (presumably) was trying to get Maeve out of the park in season one (possibly to protect her? do we know why?) and is the one that changed her code to allow her to wake up in the "real world" so I don't think that particular bit is that far fetched. He's been helping her all along.

Gap said:

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When did Maeve become Ford's favorite? That was news to me 19 episodes in. While so many things are done extremely well in this show, as some others, I think the story is a complete mess

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I thought the same. Did we even see then interact in Season 1? It seems very random.