I don't know if you call a 25% drop in ratings a disaster. But it's quantifiable and sure as **** isn't good.
***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****
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Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
I still disagree that the storyline and pacing are "significantly worse" than season one. We just don't know until we see the end.
I've had some issues with the show also, but until the story is done, I'm waiting on any big over-arcing analysis.
S1 was obviously more straightforward, but that was always going to be the case because in a way the audience already knew how season one was going to end. With season two, we don't know how it's going to end yet, at all.
I've had some issues with the show also, but until the story is done, I'm waiting on any big over-arcing analysis.
S1 was obviously more straightforward, but that was always going to be the case because in a way the audience already knew how season one was going to end. With season two, we don't know how it's going to end yet, at all.
Brian Earl Spilner said:I'll disagree strongly on this one.Quote:
That's not the mark of a well written/told story.
It's easy to to get lost/confused at times, but I think this is intended to be this way. What's great is that the story is so intricately written and told, that all the twists and turns are easily identifiable upon rewatching episodes. Nothing is done without very careful setup throughout the season.
I think they know exactly what they're doing, and I love being a few steps behind the writers a lot of the time.
I guess we'll find out next week. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as they wrapped S1 up well (though that season was far less ambitious from the story-telling side), but I don't think it's realistic that a 90 minute finale is suddenly going to make the previous 9 episodes all fall into place.
And the last time people thought a JJ Abrams show was intentionally confusing they were not rewarded with the conclusion. (reference: Lost).
I hear you. But there's no one with even a modicum of knowledge about television and how it works who would remotely consider this season a "disaster." A slight disappointment? Yes. Confusing? Sure. But this is a show catered almost specifically to the reddit crowd, and in that sense, it is a massive success, still HBO's second most popular show in terms of overall coverage and cultural impact, and, in my humble opinion, has only gotten better since season one.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Even though I agree with you in this case, you probably need to stop trying to pass off opinions as objective fact. You seem to do it a lot, especially when it comes to the Star Wars franchise, and it rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
His opinion is that it's a disaster.
oh **** off. this is anything but humbleTCTTS said:I hear you. But there's no one with even a modicum of knowledge about television and how it works who would even remotely consider this season a disaster. A slight disappointment? Yes. Confusing. Sure. But this is a show catered almost specifically for the reddit crowd, and in that sense, it is a massive success, still HBO's most second popular show in terms of overall coverage and cultural impact, and, in my humble opinion, has only gotten better since season one.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Even though I agree with you in this case, you probably need to stop trying to pass off opinions as objective fact. You seem to do it a lot, especially when it comes to the Star Wars franchise, and it rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
His opinion is that it's a disaster.
It was sarcasm, genius.
bobinator said:
I still disagree that the storyline and pacing are "significantly worse" than season one. We just don't know until we see the end.
I've had some issues with the show also, but until the story is done, I'm waiting on any big over-arcing analysis.
S1 was obviously more straightforward, but that was always going to be the case because in a way the audience already knew how season one was going to end. With season two, we don't know how it's going to end yet, at all.
And if we had 2-3 more episodes left I wouldn't be sounding the alarm -- there'd be plenty of time to bring everything together.
I just don't think it's going to happen in 90 minutes. It feels like the buildup to the Lost finale where everyone was sure the loose storylines would all be tied up nicely.
Whatever they decide to do with Bernard, I don't think it could be enough to clean up the mess they made of his character this season. Getting his character to some sort of wrap-up point is one thing. Wrapping it up in a way that brings clarity to the meandering mess that they took his character through for 9 episodes is another.
One of my predictions for the season finale that ties into this conversation is that the Maeve/Clementine storyline is going to come together in a way that makes all the time spent in Shogun World have more impact. Right now that's a good example of a narrative walking around that doesn't seem to have much direct impact on the core part of the story.
Another example for me is still the battle at the fort, I still have no idea why anybody was there, much less why everybody was.
Another example for me is still the battle at the fort, I still have no idea why anybody was there, much less why everybody was.
Genuinely curious... what do you think is left story-wise that can't be wrapped up in 90 minutes? At this point, I'm legitimately wondering how they're even going to fill that time.
nm
It's been said, but I think this finale is going to be amazing. It may not tie everything neatly together, but I bet it comes damn close.
I'll agree with you 100% on those two points. Shogun World was fan service that ultimately had next to no point, and yeah, I still have no idea what was happening with the battle at that fort.
That said, those two issues to me have nothing to do with the scattered, out-of-order timelines. That was just straight up stalling/bad storytelling.
That said, those two issues to me have nothing to do with the scattered, out-of-order timelines. That was just straight up stalling/bad storytelling.
I've been here since the beginning and had previously typed up my disappointment with the season throughout. I didn't just bandwagon on here to piss of King TCTTS with my inferior intellect.
In a way the two seasons are opposites of each other. In season one we kind of had a vague idea of what the ending would be (the robots are going to be in a revolt) but we didn't know any of the details.
This season we know a lot of the details, but we don't really know what's about to happen. A bunch of hosts are going to die in a flooded valley, Bernard (or at least his body) has been captured/rescued, Teddy is dead, Dolores and Maeve are MIA, etc.
This season we know a lot of the details, but we don't really know what's about to happen. A bunch of hosts are going to die in a flooded valley, Bernard (or at least his body) has been captured/rescued, Teddy is dead, Dolores and Maeve are MIA, etc.
Has nothing to do with intellect and everything to do with sh*tting on a show that most here enjoy/love. I've no doubt been critical of it on and off for its entire run, but I always explain my thoughts, try not to be super negative when disappointed, and always engage in discussion. To pop in and bluntly call it a "disaster" accomplishes nothing and serves only to either end discussion or piss people off.
I don't really think we're accomplishing anything either way.
This may be getting into the realm of the philosophical, but I don't get why people care so much if other people like the stuff they like or hate the stuff they hate. This maze is clearly not meant for everyone, that's fine. All that really matters is if the people at HBO are happy with the viewership numbers. If so, then I hope they keep making the show the way that they want to make it.
Quote:
This maze is clearly not meant for everyone
I could not care less if someone likes/dislikes something I do/don't. But if we're all having a conversation, don't pop in the room, fart, and then leave. That's all I'm saying.
...i cant...your self awareness is astonishing. I have been posting here since the premiere and have backed up each criticism with reasons. I didn't just pop in. Here's my reasons post episode 9 as to why i've thought this season has been (ready yourself)...a 'disaster.' Here's my E1 thoughts. And i've popped in regularly to discuss theories and questions throughout.TCTTS said:
Has nothing to do with intellect and everything to do with sh*tting on a show that most here enjoy/love. I've no doubt been critical of it on and off for its entire run, but I always explain my thoughts, try not to be super negative when disappointed, and always engage in discussion. To pop in and bluntly call it a "disaster" accomplishes nothing and serves only to either end discussion or piss people off.
This thread and the purpose of the forum in general isn't for you to dictate who can or cannot express their feelings of displeasure. So again, go **** yourself.
Missed that initial post, and apologies for not seeing it in relation to your most recent one.
The "go **** yourself" language is a bit ridiculous, though.
The "go **** yourself" language is a bit ridiculous, though.
As mentioned before I enjoy the show and it's one of the few TV shows I actually watch.
That being said, if the storyline this season isn't more convoluted (or more of a mess, depending on your verbiage) then how would you explain the 25% drop in viewership?
Did the people who enjoyed sci-fi-cowboy-robots-becoming-sentient-and-wanting-freedom in/after Season 1 leading into the Season 2 premier... suddenly just stop liking that type of show?
I think it's pretty clear the story-telling has suffered.
That being said, if the storyline this season isn't more convoluted (or more of a mess, depending on your verbiage) then how would you explain the 25% drop in viewership?
Did the people who enjoyed sci-fi-cowboy-robots-becoming-sentient-and-wanting-freedom in/after Season 1 leading into the Season 2 premier... suddenly just stop liking that type of show?
I think it's pretty clear the story-telling has suffered.
Season 1 was absolutely outstanding television.
Season 2 has just been... meh. Good and worth the watch, but not really worthy of taking over for GoT as the "it" show in pop culture.
Almost feels like it should have been a one season mini-series that was cleaned up a little better at the end of Season 1.
Season 2 has just been... meh. Good and worth the watch, but not really worthy of taking over for GoT as the "it" show in pop culture.
Almost feels like it should have been a one season mini-series that was cleaned up a little better at the end of Season 1.
I wonder if simply the time of year affects the numbers. The show is airing in the late spring/summer this time around (April to June) as opposed to in the fall (October to December) last time.
Ya'll want to watch something good.
Showtime: Billions
I won't watch WW season 3.
Showtime: Billions
I won't watch WW season 3.
FJB
it's "y'all"
welcome to Texas
welcome to Texas
ok, was in a hurry and also thinking how much WW S2 has sucked.
FJB
aggiepaintrain said:
Ya'll want to watch something good.
Showtime: Billions
oh and apologies if my post a few pages back led to this long drawn out dead horse argument. Didn't mean it to be that way at all. Just wanted to take a current room temperature to decide when i should spend the time watching S2.
TL;DR- today so you can decide if it sucks or not.
I was going to photo reply with a picture of those samurai who cut their ears off, but couldn't find itaggiepaintrain said:
ok, was in a hurry and also thinking how much WW S2 has sucked.
I'll stick with my Old Bill theory since I would enjoy it. Old Bill is the first host built, and was the first to gain consciousness. However, he hid that from Ford since he's "offline" and fakes the herky jerky motions and simple conversations. He's been secretly pulling all the triggers on the wildcards such as Ghost Nation and Bernard. He kills everyone in the finale and escapes on a rocket ship. He then becomes lord of the universe and ascends to...
sorry, got carried away at the end there.
sorry, got carried away at the end there.
Show will also lose a lot to me if William is indeed a host. If William is a host then the number of meaningful main characters who are human = 0 (1 if you count Hale I guess).
I like where your head's at, anyone got anything weird to discuss before the finale? That'll be more fun than all this other trash.
Logan's backstory still bothers me a bit. The only reason we think he's dead is because William said it to James Delos right? Have any other characters actually confirmed that?
Logan's backstory still bothers me a bit. The only reason we think he's dead is because William said it to James Delos right? Have any other characters actually confirmed that?
4stringAg
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