***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****

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JJxvi
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8:30a, 6/27/18
AG
Fidelity in terms of recordings, records, etc means "the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced."

So what they mean when they say these tests are for "fidelity" is that they are done to determine whether a copy performs the same way as the original that a copy is being made from. In Delos' case its being done to see if the Delos brain in a robot body says and does the same thing the original Delos did. In Bernard/Delores case, the conversations are to determine if Bernard is a faithful copy of Arnold. In the very last Bernard/Delores scene, presumably this is a new Bernard being test for fidelity against what Delores remembers of the last Bernard (not Arnold), and in the final scene presumably a robot copy of William is being tested for fidelity against the recorded actions of the original William, who was presumably a human.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to JJxvi • 8:35a, 6/27/18
AG
JJxvi said:
Fidelity in terms of recordings, records, etc means "the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced."

So what they mean when they say these tests are for "fidelity" is that they are done to determine whether a copy performs the same way as the original that a copy is being made from. In Delos' case its being done to see if the Delos brain in a robot body says and does the same thing the original Delos did. In Bernard/Delores case, the conversations are to determine if Bernard is a faithful copy of Arnold. In the very last Bernard/Delores scene, presumably this is a new Bernard being test for fidelity against what Delores remembers of the last Bernard (not Arnold), and in the final scene presumably a robot copy of William is being tested for fidelity against the recorded actions of the original William, who was presumably a human.
And if it's memories that keep you alive in that world, then that means that the hosts survive in the real world or some of the ones that went to the 'Valley Beyond' make it back. The humans that had contact with William would likely be dead.
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bobinator
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In reply to Joseph Parrish • 8:42a, 6/27/18
AG
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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bobinator
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In reply to mhayden • 8:48a, 6/27/18
AG
free_mhayden said:
And while you are at it, can someone kind of dumb down to me the whole concept of humans being simple and able to be defined essentially by one key moment as it pertains to being able to program them?

Does that mean before the poolside Logan chat and his subsequent suicide, that Delos' "one key moment" was something different? Doesn't that ultimately mean that they/we aren't simple programmed creatures because our one key moment and what drives us changes?

I may be missing that completely, but seems like they are trying to parallel the host's "cornerstone" and the human's "one key moment" as being basically the same, but it doesn't really seem like they are.
I like to think of it like each person at any given time has a cornerstone, but that yes, those can change if something really big happens. That's not unlike the hosts, which can change their cornerstones also (that seemed to be the message at the end anyway.)

I think they meant that humans are simple in that at any one time they have very specific drives. But if you're copying a human when they're 21 versus copying them when they're 75 those drives could have changed.

I actually think that this is going to be a theme of next season. Dolores thinks that humans can't change, but we very obviously can, and she's going to have to account for that in her "murder everyone" plan. A lot of humans never would have done what they did if they believed the hosts were alive, and now that they know that, many of them will probably want to be on the side of the hosts.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to bobinator • 8:50a, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
The hosts that work are made from memories of others. That's what made them pass the fidelity tests. They weren't made with just their own memories (that caused them to fail). So if this is hundreds of years in the future...the humans that lived with William would be dead.
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JJxvi
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In reply to bobinator • 8:52a, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Its like the movie Coco, brah. Thats the valley beyond!
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bobinator
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In reply to Joseph Parrish • 9:03a, 6/27/18
AG
Hosts like Dolores, Maeve, etc don't really take a fidelity test, at least not in the same way that the ones based on humans do so that's why I'm confused. What do you mean the "hosts that work" because all of the hosts work to some degree, and all of them have their own memories.

When it comes to putting human minds in host bodies though, here's what we know:

Xeroxing a human mind and putting it in a host doesn't work. (Ex: Delos)
Building a host based on a human works, but it's not an exact copy. It's "something new." (Ex: Bernard, he is not Arnold, but he is based on Arnold)

What we don't know is what's going on with William way in the future. He could be either. Maybe at some point they figure out how to put a human mind in a body OR he could also just be a copy based on William. We don't really know.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to bobinator • 9:06a, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
Hosts like Dolores, Maeve, etc don't really take a fidelity test, at least not in the same way that the ones based on humans do so that's why I'm confused. What do you mean the "hosts that work" because all of the hosts work to some degree, and all of them have their own memories.
No, you're not following me. The hosts that were hosts to begin with have no problems with fidelity testing. The humans that become hosts do.

Delos
Arnold / Bernard
Now William
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bobinator
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9:14a, 6/27/18
AG
Did you read the rest of the post? There's also a difference in what happened with Delos and Bernard that I think is pretty clear, but we don't know what the deal is with William.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to bobinator • 9:16a, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
Did you read the rest of the post? There's also a difference in what happened with Delos and Bernard that I think is pretty clear, but we don't know what the deal is with William.
I did, but there has been no precedent set for that. I'm just following the rules as given, not making new ones.

The difference between Delos and Bernard was that Delos was made with his own memories and Bernard was made with Delores'. That's why Delos failed and Bernard passed.

So using that precedent, that implies somebody that remembers William is still alive way into the future whenever that scene was made. That would have to be a host. That's all I'm saying.
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bobinator
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9:18a, 6/27/18
AG
I guess I still have no idea what you're trying to say.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to bobinator • 9:19a, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
I guess I still have no idea what you're trying to say.
Hosts survive. The same exact thing I said in the first post.

Quote:
then that means that the hosts survive
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MW03
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9:22a, 6/27/18
AG
Delos' house is for sale. Only $54,000,000

http://www.chriscortazzo.com/propertydetails/11392/26880-pacific-coast-hwy

Edit: Unless Bernard bought it already, since I think it's the same house.
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bobinator
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9:22a, 6/27/18
AG
Survive what? I guess that's maybe what I'm missing. Like I don't get what the "memories keep you alive in that world" or "some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back" is about.
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bobinator
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In reply to MW03 • 9:23a, 6/27/18
AG
Let's pool our funds Ags, I'm in for about $300.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to bobinator • 9:24a, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
Survive what? I guess that's maybe what I'm missing. Like I don't get what the "memories keep you alive in that world" or "some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back" is about.
I can't help you man. I'm just repeating myself.
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MW03
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9:29a, 6/27/18
AG
I thought it was pretty interesting that the books in the Forge library looked like the player piano's music from the opening credits.
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Belton Ag
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9:32a, 6/27/18
AG
According to that listing, we could lease it for the summer for 400K per month. So who's up for a summer of Westworld reenactments?
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bobinator
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In reply to MW03 • 9:33a, 6/27/18
AG
Yeah I thought that was a nice touch.
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bobinator
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In reply to Joseph Parrish • 9:34a, 6/27/18
AG
Okay, I was trying to figure it out so we could discuss it, but whatever. I just don't understand where you got that some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back or whatever point you were trying to make, but obviously maybe I'm just reading the whole thing wrong. Maybe someone else can weigh in?
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amercer
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11:44a, 6/27/18
AG
Has anyone assembled all the "current" timeline Charlotte scenes? It would be interesting to rewatch those knowing that it's Delores. She knows that Bernard shot her, but she doesn't know why he brought her back (I assume) , and she doesn't know his mind is scrambled.
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MBAR
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11:45a, 6/27/18
AG
Hosts don't have to survive fidelity because they aren't tested for it. They're not copies. The only people that have undergone fidelity tests are humans that have been copied or rebuilt from memories as hosts. Delos, William, and Bernard are the only times we've seen anyone be tested for fidelity because they're the only ones being copied here.

The hosts are created from scratch. They are what they are because they were never intended to be a replication of anyone else. There's no reason for them to be tested for fidelity.
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bobinator
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In reply to amercer • 12:00p, 6/27/18
AG
amercer said:
Has anyone assembled all the "current" timeline Charlotte scenes? It would be interesting to rewatch those knowing that it's Delores. She knows that Bernard shot her, but she doesn't know why he brought her back (I assume) , and she doesn't know his mind is scrambled.
I think she definitely does know those things. It wouldn't make any sense if she didn't.
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Complete Idiot
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In reply to bobinator • 12:23p, 6/27/18
bobinator said:
Okay, I was trying to figure it out so we could discuss it, but whatever. I just don't understand where you got that some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back or whatever point you were trying to make, but obviously maybe I'm just reading the whole thing wrong. Maybe someone else can weigh in?
I believe he is saying the post credits scene is a fidelity test of William. He believes only someone who remembers the original human can conduct the fidelity test (not sure if that's true but what he is saying is based on that assumption). Given the post credit scene appears to be so far out in the future that no human who remembered William could still be alive, he is stating that a host who knew William is conducting the fidelity test. Given it's a host conducting the test, as Dolores did on Bernard, and that it has to be a host that remembered William, that means one of the hosts who escaped the park is still online in that way future timeline or that a Host who was put in the Valley Beyond has been since put back into a body an dis interrogating William.

Hopefully I am mediating this discussion correctly, If so, you are welcome.
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bobinator
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12:32p, 6/27/18
AG
Ooooooooooooooh, I gotcha, that makes sense, I'm there now. I'm not sure I agree, but I get what he's saying. Thank you sir.
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JJxvi
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1:29p, 6/27/18
AG
My interpretation of the final scene is that William survives but he is insane and (possibly) eventually filled with regret at killing his daughter or enraged at himself for how things turned out or maybe simply that he lost "the game." At some point he returns to the park and recreates his daughter and also himself from a period prior to season 2. He uses the data from the park to recreate all the hosts and people who were in the park as well either as other hosts or maybe even as a simulation that only his robot self can see. He also seems to have imbued his recreated daughter with a power similar to the Logan sim in the Forge. Basically its her task to rerun the events over and over again, but William's recreation of himself always does the same thing and never changes what actions he took, over and over and over.

It is a fidelity test in the sense that he's being tested against himself, but he's also trying to change the past as well.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to amercer • 1:34p, 6/27/18
AG
amercer said:
Has anyone assembled all the "current" timeline Charlotte scenes? It would be interesting to rewatch those knowing that it's Delores. She knows that Bernard shot her, but she doesn't know why he brought her back (I assume) , and she doesn't know his mind is scrambled.
I did notice the her eyes moving in that weird way and the strange walk, but I had absolutely no clue it was Delores. The actress for Hale said in video that she got tips from Evan Rachel Wood (Delores) on how to play her. She talked about moving her eyes before she'd turn her head, and also not moving her arms when walking.
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bobinator
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In reply to JJxvi • 1:47p, 6/27/18
AG
I sort of think it's simply a hell that Ford built for William. Where every time through he realizes that he's a host and he's in the forge, and then has to repeat it again.

I'm not sure it's any more complicated than that to me.
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JJxvi
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1:49p, 6/27/18
AG
That'd be idiotic. Its not William, its just a robot copy of him. This gets back to the Prestige/transporters are suicide boxes philosophy. These robots don't make you immortal, they just make an immortal copy of you, while you just die. He would just be torturing a thing he made that thinks its William.
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bobinator
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1:53p, 6/27/18
AG
Yeah I'm not saying it's a great idea, it's just what I think is happening there, basically Ford trying to be a vindictive ******* to William for ruining everything.
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JJxvi
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1:58p, 6/27/18
AG
The dialogue between host William and host Emily seems to indicate a more personal quest from William's side than something acting on him from the outside (Ford). Id need to watch again, but from what Emily tells him it seems much more like its William trying to redo everything and change himself but he never can.
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bobinator
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2:08p, 6/27/18
AG
But by your same argument a rebooted host William also can't "redo everything" because it's not really him. He killed his real daughter no matter how many times he doesn't kill his fake one or whatever else he does or doesn't do in the park right?
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JJxvi
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2:20p, 6/27/18
AG
Yeah, but in my mind its more like an experiment. A "what-if" game by a dude with a ton of money, robot building machines, computing power, and detailed scans of his own and everybody else's brains. It was for him to observe while he was alive, and now its just still running long after he is dead.

That's definitely the way I see it for sure, maybe its someone else besides William that started doing the testing (robots trying to recreate humans, I think someone mentioned somewhere), but I think thats definitely whats happening in that scene. Host William is being tested over and over again by somebody to compare with the actions of the real William. My belief is that it would be William himself that initiated it, who else would have such an interest in him in particular over every other person and also create his daughter as part of it as well.
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bobinator
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In reply to JJxvi • 2:25p, 6/27/18
AG
JJxvi said:
who else would have such an interest in him in particular over every other person and also create his daughter as part of it as well.
Dolores, perhaps?
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JJxvi
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2:28p, 6/27/18
AG
Its possible
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