I also wonder how long ago Nolan read Stephen King's The Dark Tower series, because there are a heck of a lot of similarities.
***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****
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Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
From Reddit: This show is so confusing sometimes and everyone seems to be right when it comes to theories.
First comment sums it up for me.
Quote:
Emily died and wasn't a host but is a host.
MiB was definitely human but is also a host but he's not in a simulation now he's in his reality.
Dolores died but is back and is going to played by Tessa Thompson but actually she's back as ERW plus bonus Tessa Thompson Dolores.
Bernard didn't delete Ford after all but he did.
Stubbs is a host which we should have known all along because he never grew facial hair except for that one episode that he did.
Teddy shot himself in the head and the Cradle is gone so he died for real but he gets to live forever in Avatar world.
First comment sums it up for me.
Quote:
I hate watching Westworld it's awesome
I think the twist of the finale is that all the viewers find out that they are the hosts fml
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I agree, but Westworld itself is the reason why this is so difficult. Contrast this season with "This is Us", which, while not a sci-fi show, also employs shifting timelines in the storytelling to slowly reveal pivotal events. The difference is that "This is Us" provides enough clues in every scene for the audience to sort out the timeline pretty quickly and definitively as the show progresses. The audience clearly doesn't know everything, but it's the unrevealed events that are the focus of the mystery. Westworld doesn't stop there. It's the context of reality itself that is constantly and purposefully made the mystery in Season 2. The payoff of every episode is just more layers of confusion, not revelation. Is that good writing? It's certainly bold and innovative. But is it entertaining? That's the point. I was entertained by Season 1. This season was simply maddening most of the time. I would have enjoyed Season 2 more if all the episodes were more like episode 8. That was brilliant storytelling.SeattleAgJr said:
"smart"?
If all of us are picking up things from reading write-ups and interviews released after the finale aired, that does not make the show or the episode "smart".
It means it was bad storytelling.
When I first mentioned the adversary comment, I almost stated that it's like it's out of a comic book. That is what I don't like about it. Cheesy.
Fine if you do tho.
Fine if you do tho.
To be honest it seems like from some of the comments on here that people weren't watching this show very closely. It takes a few minutes to kind of process everything that happened, but it certainly wasn't all that confusing by the time it was over.
I have to say that I'm not really enthused about a season where Delores and others do their thing outside the park; at some point, they'll have to change the name from Westworld.
I get that Maeve and the others will probably be rebooted and brought back by the two human techies and put back into the park, but the writers are going to have to pull something really creative to make their park-related storylines interesting.
I get that Maeve and the others will probably be rebooted and brought back by the two human techies and put back into the park, but the writers are going to have to pull something really creative to make their park-related storylines interesting.
Yeah, it was explained point by point at the end.bobinator said:
To be honest it seems like from some of the comments on here that people weren't watching this show very closely. It takes a few minutes to kind of process everything that happened, but it certainly wasn't all that confusing by the time it was over.
I think that will happen as well, but it kinda takes away the impact of them destroying the host archives. Death is supposed to be permanent now. If they can just reboot the hosts, whats the point of destroying the archives?Belton Ag said:
I have to say that I'm not really enthused about a season where Delores and others do their thing outside the park; at some point, they'll have to change the name from Westworld.
I get that Maeve and the others will probably be rebooted and brought back by the two human techies and put back into the park, but the writers are going to have to pull something really creative to make their park-related storylines interesting.
Also, count me in the camp that didn't find the parallel storytelling too distracting. I didn't think episode to episode it was that hard to follow.
A true death would be permanent but a machine doesn't die the same way that people do. If you unplug a computer you can still plug it back in. You have to destroy their memory to truly destroy them.
Though I'd be pretty surprised if Maeve and her crew don't make up the bulk of the control units that Dolores snuck out of the park.
Though I'd be pretty surprised if Maeve and her crew don't make up the bulk of the control units that Dolores snuck out of the park.
Belton Ag said:Yeah, it was explained point by point at the end.bobinator said:
To be honest it seems like from some of the comments on here that people weren't watching this show very closely. It takes a few minutes to kind of process everything that happened, but it certainly wasn't all that confusing by the time it was over.
Which kind of acknowledges "Hey, we didn't do a very good job revealing the storyline in the first 9 hours, so here we will lay it out point by point in the last hour."
Which to be fair, does lend itself to a season re-watch, but it doesn't lend itself to a very fun initial run-through.
I use "Dark" as a good example of a show with alternate timelines, time traveling and significant character reveals -- but rarely did you ever just have no clue what was going on after the first couple of episodes.
Some people enjoy being confused and throwing out a hundred theories as to what is going on every single week (only to find that 90% of those theories aren't true)... this thread is proof of that. 'Lost' 's success is proof of that. I just think it's kind of lazy story-telling to keep the viewer guessing until the final episode (and then acknowledge that some things -- like Stubbs being a host -- were actually written in at the eleventh hour).
I have no good explanation as to why Dolores went to pick up William. She said she needed a monster to reach the Valley Beyond.
Why?
She left him lying in the dirt and we never see him again.
Why?
She left him lying in the dirt and we never see him again.
Yeah, the director saying that Stubbs is a host annoys me. That's pretty stupid.
She didn't pick him up. She found him because they were on the same path. She grew to understand her reality, but he never did.
Wasn't sure why she picked him up other than she was just blowing smoke and wants him to suffer.
Also, the gun-rigging seemed confusing. It was clear she sabotaged it when she picked him up, but it seemed odd that he fired it at both security and at her before it blew up at just the perfect time - the head shot attempt on her. Maybe I'm one of those dumb viewers that missed something.
Also, the gun-rigging seemed confusing. It was clear she sabotaged it when she picked him up, but it seemed odd that he fired it at both security and at her before it blew up at just the perfect time - the head shot attempt on her. Maybe I'm one of those dumb viewers that missed something.
bobinator said:
Yeah, the director saying that Stubbs is a host annoys me. That's pretty stupid.
That's why I don't read that stuff.
The story it what it is. The why or how it was conceived is totally irrelevant.
DannyDuberstein said:
Wasn't sure why she picked him up other than she was just blowing smoke and wants him to suffer.
Also, the gun-rigging seemed confusing. It was clear she sabotaged it when she picked him up, but it seemed odd that he fired it at both security and at her before it blew up at just the perfect time - the head shot attempt on her. Maybe I'm one of those dumb viewers that missed something.
The gun thing was on the shotgun shell chamber. He fired his regular shots and ran out. Then he switched to the shell and it blew up.
DannyDuberstein said:
Wasn't sure why she picked him up other than she was just blowing smoke and wants him to suffer.
Also, the gun-rigging seemed confusing. It was clear she sabotaged it when she picked him up, but it seemed odd that he fired it at both security and at her before it blew up at just the perfect time - the head shot attempt on her. Maybe I'm one of those dumb viewers that missed something.
The gun-rigging part confused me a bit also.
I initially chalked it up to "Delores knows what moves William will make", but at that point in the story Delores had yet to "read" every human's code.
Even with the angle that we/Delores always knows how things will ultimately play out for William (Emily's death, etc...), again we didn't learn that until AFTER that scene.
So I just resorted to assuming it plain old bad movie luck.
I don't think she went to pick him up, he was just there along her way since they were both heading to the same place.
But as for what she meant by needing a monster to get to the valley beyond, I'm not sure on that. I think his role in what happened is intentionally unclear and we're going to learn more about it next season.
But as for what she meant by needing a monster to get to the valley beyond, I'm not sure on that. I think his role in what happened is intentionally unclear and we're going to learn more about it next season.
Yeah that bullet thing was dumb as hell. Somehow she knew he'd try to shoot her with that last bullet? He could've easily been shooting the Delos guards.
Why was there a Charlotte body/host available?
I thought the gun thing was pretty silly also, but he shot her with like five other shots first, so she left plenty of room for error there.
Bernard created the Charlotte body/host.
Bernard built it. They literally showed that part happening.
cclearman said:
Why was there a Charlotte body/host available?
Bernard built one. They showed a couple scenes of him working on it.
I didn't know it could be done so quickly, but magic of TV and all.
bobinator said:
I thought the gun thing was pretty silly also, but he shot her with like five other shots first, so she left plenty of room for error there.
Yeah... That was your cliche "I'll continually shoot this enemy in the body rather than the face".
It was juts unnecessary. Would have been better had it been on the very next round. Yeah, it still may not have been for Delores but the way they did it just came off as insane luck.
So what are the theories on Bernard's connection to the forge? That's not where he was built, because Ford told him it didn't exist yet. But he had clearly been there before, had made the gate, and was in charge of the virtual universe inside the Forge.
I think "it was just unnecessary" is the summary of the complaints I had about this season. There was A LOT of good and great, but I think it was hard to appreciate because there was just simply too much.
To me you can either tell a simple story in a complicated way (which is what season 1 was) or you can tell a complicated story in a simple way, but when you try to tell a complicated story in a complicated way it just becomes too much at times.
I keep coming back to this example, but the battle at Fort Forlorn Hope is a good case study on my issue with this season. Weak plot contrivances to even make it happen, and when it's over I'm not sure what it was even for.
To me you can either tell a simple story in a complicated way (which is what season 1 was) or you can tell a complicated story in a simple way, but when you try to tell a complicated story in a complicated way it just becomes too much at times.
I keep coming back to this example, but the battle at Fort Forlorn Hope is a good case study on my issue with this season. Weak plot contrivances to even make it happen, and when it's over I'm not sure what it was even for.
So did we ever see Hale wearing a hat? I'm wondering where Bernard go the information to recreate/create her. We heard her mention to Elsie about knowing everything about her, so maybe every Delos employee has enough information backed up so they could be recreated?bobinator said:
Bernard built it. They literally showed that part happening.
I don't think he had one,
I think we're supposed to assume that Ford found the forge and made some modifications including the virtual paradise for the hosts and then left them for Bernard, assuming Bernard would know what to do when the time came.
I think we're supposed to assume that Ford found the forge and made some modifications including the virtual paradise for the hosts and then left them for Bernard, assuming Bernard would know what to do when the time came.
Well DNA wise she was banging Hector last season at one point so we can assume they have her DNA, the rest is easy because they weren't trying to recreate her personality since Bernard's plan was to put Dolores inside her anyway. They just needed her body, not her mind.
free_mhayden said:
I also wonder how long ago Nolan read Stephen King's The Dark Tower series, because there are a heck of a lot of similarities.
In that case I'll stop watching after season 4.
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