***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****

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bobinator
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2:32p, 6/27/18
AG
I'll be honest that scene doesn't bother me much because there's just way too much we don't know to even begin to really nail anything down. I haven't even given it all that much thought until now.

Something that I think is kind of interesting is nobody seemed too interested in the AI inside the Forge (as represented by Logan.) It might not have a body but it also appears to be a somewhat sentient intelligence.

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Luke Smith
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3:34p, 6/27/18
When does the false design revise the representative?
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amercer
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In reply to bobinator • 4:50p, 6/27/18
AG
bobinator said:
amercer said:
Has anyone assembled all the "current" timeline Charlotte scenes? It would be interesting to rewatch those knowing that it's Delores. She knows that Bernard shot her, but she doesn't know why he brought her back (I assume) , and she doesn't know his mind is scrambled.
I think she definitely does know those things. It wouldn't make any sense if she didn't.


That's why I'd like to see them in order. I don't think she would know that he scrambled his mind, but I guess he could have told her the whole plan after he put her in the new body.

If she knew the plan, then the whole interrogation was a show, which Bernard couldn't really help with since his mind was ****ed up. And an unnecessary show at that since Delores could have taken her new body to the forge at any point and found Abernethy's control unit.
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bobinator
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5:10p, 6/27/18
AG
She had to be careful that nobody that works for Delos saw her do anything out of the ordinary, so she went through the whole charade, there were people watching during those interrogations. That's why I think it doesn't make any sense if she didn't know the plan.
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TV Casualty
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In reply to Complete Idiot • 5:32p, 6/27/18
AG
Complete Idiot said:
bobinator said:
Okay, I was trying to figure it out so we could discuss it, but whatever. I just don't understand where you got that some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back or whatever point you were trying to make, but obviously maybe I'm just reading the whole thing wrong. Maybe someone else can weigh in?
I believe he is saying the post credits scene is a fidelity test of William. He believes only someone who remembers the original human can conduct the fidelity test (not sure if that's true but what he is saying is based on that assumption). Given the post credit scene appears to be so far out in the future that no human who remembered William could still be alive, he is stating that a host who knew William is conducting the fidelity test. Given it's a host conducting the test, as Dolores did on Bernard, and that it has to be a host that remembered William, that means one of the hosts who escaped the park is still online in that way future timeline or that a Host who was put in the Valley Beyond has been since put back into a body an dis interrogating William.

Hopefully I am mediating this discussion correctly, If so, you are welcome.


The line "You only live as long as the last person who remembers you." could point to something like this scenario.
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TV Casualty
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In reply to amercer • 5:46p, 6/27/18
AG
amercer said:
Has anyone assembled all the "current" timeline Charlotte scenes? It would be interesting to rewatch those knowing that it's Delores. She knows that Bernard shot her, but she doesn't know why he brought her back (I assume) , and she doesn't know his mind is scrambled.


I haven't rewatched it to piece all the interactions together, but there were some leading statements made by halores to Bernard along with some knowing looks.

The "I didn't think you had it in you, Bernard" when they first meet after the beach awakening and the reference to Abernathy just "keeps slipping away from us doesn't he, Bernard" lines particularly stick out.

Those really seemed to be referencing how things played out at the forge.
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MBAR
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In reply to JJxvi • 8:23p, 6/27/18
AG
JJxvi said:
That'd be idiotic. Its not William, its just a robot copy of him. This gets back to the Prestige/transporters are suicide boxes philosophy. These robots don't make you immortal, they just make an immortal copy of you, while you just die. He would just be torturing a thing he made that thinks its William.
I personally do view a copy of a person in that way, but I'm not show the show or the general public. I think they just view that as immortality. I do agree with your interpretation of it, though. I think this is where my personal interests make me like this show a lot more than others because I do have a lot of interest in thinking about free will and about what makes an AI consciousness alive and how "copies" relate to individuals.
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MBAR
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In reply to Complete Idiot • 8:25p, 6/27/18
AG
Complete Idiot said:
bobinator said:
Okay, I was trying to figure it out so we could discuss it, but whatever. I just don't understand where you got that some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back or whatever point you were trying to make, but obviously maybe I'm just reading the whole thing wrong. Maybe someone else can weigh in?
I believe he is saying the post credits scene is a fidelity test of William. He believes only someone who remembers the original human can conduct the fidelity test (not sure if that's true but what he is saying is based on that assumption). Given the post credit scene appears to be so far out in the future that no human who remembered William could still be alive, he is stating that a host who knew William is conducting the fidelity test. Given it's a host conducting the test, as Dolores did on Bernard, and that it has to be a host that remembered William, that means one of the hosts who escaped the park is still online in that way future timeline or that a Host who was put in the Valley Beyond has been since put back into a body an dis interrogating William.

Hopefully I am mediating this discussion correctly, If so, you are welcome.
I think you're right and moreover he HAS to be reconstructed from memories since all the Delors information in the Forge was deleted so they no longer have a record of Williams decisions in the park.
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amercer
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10:57p, 6/27/18
AG
Was the forge actually destroyed? Delores beamed something out, but did she end up deleting all the rest of the stuff there?

Also, if the cradle was 1/3 of Delos IP, was the forge ther other 2/3, or was there more elsewhere?
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to Complete Idiot • 12:01a, 6/28/18
AG
Complete Idiot said:
bobinator said:
Okay, I was trying to figure it out so we could discuss it, but whatever. I just don't understand where you got that some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back or whatever point you were trying to make, but obviously maybe I'm just reading the whole thing wrong. Maybe someone else can weigh in?
I believe he is saying the post credits scene is a fidelity test of William. He believes only someone who remembers the original human can conduct the fidelity test (not sure if that's true but what he is saying is based on that assumption). Given the post credit scene appears to be so far out in the future that no human who remembered William could still be alive, he is stating that a host who knew William is conducting the fidelity test. Given it's a host conducting the test, as Dolores did on Bernard, and that it has to be a host that remembered William, that means one of the hosts who escaped the park is still online in that way future timeline or that a Host who was put in the Valley Beyond has been since put back into a body an dis interrogating William.

Hopefully I am mediating this discussion correctly, If so, you are welcome.
Yeah, you got it right.
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Joseph Parrish
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In reply to TV Casualty • 12:05a, 6/28/18
AG
TV Casualty said:
Complete Idiot said:
bobinator said:
Okay, I was trying to figure it out so we could discuss it, but whatever. I just don't understand where you got that some of the ones that went to the valley beyond make it back or whatever point you were trying to make, but obviously maybe I'm just reading the whole thing wrong. Maybe someone else can weigh in?
I believe he is saying the post credits scene is a fidelity test of William. He believes only someone who remembers the original human can conduct the fidelity test (not sure if that's true but what he is saying is based on that assumption). Given the post credit scene appears to be so far out in the future that no human who remembered William could still be alive, he is stating that a host who knew William is conducting the fidelity test. Given it's a host conducting the test, as Dolores did on Bernard, and that it has to be a host that remembered William, that means one of the hosts who escaped the park is still online in that way future timeline or that a Host who was put in the Valley Beyond has been since put back into a body an dis interrogating William.

Hopefully I am mediating this discussion correctly, If so, you are welcome.


The line "You only live as long as the last person who remembers you." could point to something like this scenario.
Yep, you're on the same page.
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mazag08
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12:14a, 6/28/18
AG
Hickory High melting down since the last episode is absolutely classic. Dude always melts down on every sports forum at the first sign of adversity.
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Liquid Wrench
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In reply to MW03 • 1:00a, 6/28/18

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PooDoo
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1:04a, 6/28/18
AG
#metoo ruined this season.
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FightinTexasAg15
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6:57a, 6/28/18
AG
Why was Dolores able to take multiple rounds to the chest like nothing happened, but Maeve died from getting shot in the chest a couple times?
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amercer
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In reply to FightinTexasAg15 • 7:39a, 6/28/18
AG
Narrative, but if you want to explain it away then perhaps the high caliber rifles the Delos security team uses are more destructive to robots than the revolver that William has been using as part of the game of Westworld for the last 30 years.
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amercer
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7:42a, 6/28/18
AG
Something I haven't seen discussed here much but I fell season two did a good job of answering questions left over from season one. Especially on how the season one finally went down.
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PooDoo
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In reply to FightinTexasAg15 • 9:33a, 6/28/18
AG
FightinTexasAg15 said:
Why was Dolores able to take multiple rounds to the chest like nothing happened, but Maeve died from getting shot in the chest a couple times?

i figures it was because she was an older design and more robot than the others.
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Al Bula
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9:45a, 6/28/18
AG
These Delos idiot employees couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

Tyrell Corp would own and expose Delos.







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bobinator
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In reply to Al Bula • 10:25a, 6/28/18
AG
That first image might be the most pointless gif I've ever seen.
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MW03
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In reply to bobinator • 11:09a, 6/28/18
AG
bobinator said:
That first image might be the most pointless gif I've ever seen.
Sidebar:

There's a cool little site called "If We Don't Remember Me" that's basically gifs as art. I think the person doing it had an installation in a Houston museum at one point. It's these small gifs very similar to that Blade Runner one with very minimal movement.

http://iwdrm.tumblr.com/

For Example:



Anyway, pretty cool. End Sidebar.
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Dro07
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In reply to MW03 • 11:11a, 6/28/18
AG
Sidebar:

Cool

/End Sidebar
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MW03
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In reply to Dro07 • 11:12a, 6/28/18
KidDoc
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11:18a, 6/28/18
AG
Finally got around to watching it and I gotta admit this season has been a mess. I have done outside reading and watched some of the summaries which helped me keep the scattered story-lines together but you shouldn't need to do that to keep up with a show IMO.

Here are my take-aways from season 2:

1) Very much True Detective Season 2 syndrome- showrunners have a huge hit and it goes to their heads and they do whatever they want and it is a mess

2) Stormtrooper/ Indiana Jones syndrome- the complete buffoonery of the security forces is eye-rolling awful. They should have just had them wearing blind folds every time they fired their P90's. To spray that much and STILL miss even the horses is just awful. And the one that let the fem-bot pull his nade-- geez.

3) Dead-end storylines- what was the point of the fort fight and the Samurai episodes again? Seems like those could have easily been left out.

Overall I give it a solid D with season one being an A-. Very disappointing and I'm not interested in season 3 at all.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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bobinator
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11:23a, 6/28/18
AG
I'm definitely with everyone on the Shogun World bit now, that whole narrative arc seems like it was basically there just so Maeve could get superpowers, but not be close enough to main action to have an effect on it.
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FightinTexasAg15
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11:47a, 6/28/18
AG
1) I don't know if it was a joke or not when the writers said they were going to try to make it so reddit couldn't guess everything, but now it doesn't feel like a joke and like they focused too much on trying to make it confusing instead of making a cohesive well thought out show

2) Shogunworld did feel like something some higher up thought would be cool so they forced it in. I did like the beginning when the hosts noticed the parallels to their world and really saw the reality of the situation, but that was about it.

3) Overall I wouldn't call it a bad season, it was still enjoyable, just could have been better
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bobinator
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In reply to FightinTexasAg15 • 11:57a, 6/28/18
AG
I see what you're saying, and in some ways agree, but also one way you can also think about the "confusion" of the storyline is that the audience had to go through the same thing Bernard went through throughout the season.

Just like the character was trying to piece his memory back together, so were we trying to put together the various storylines into one cohesive story, and it wasn't cohesive for the audience until the moment it was also cohesive for the character with the CharLores reveal.

So on one hand I agree that it seemed complicated just for complexities sake, but I also kind of appreciate the effort of the showrunners to challenge the audience to experience the events the same way a key character did. In season one, by comparison, we sort of viewed things like Dolores did where the storylines didn't converge for the audience until the moment they converged for Dolores. But it was far less fragmented than season two because Dolores didn't intentionally scramble her memories, she just couldn't remember that past life at all until suddenly she could.
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Scotty Appleton
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In reply to KidDoc • 1:52p, 6/28/18
I fast-forwarded through much of the last 3 episodes. Figured it was the least I could do for liking Season 1.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to KidDoc • 2:29p, 6/28/18
KidDoc said:
2) Stormtrooper/ Indiana Jones syndrome- the complete buffoonery of the security forces is eye-rolling awful. They should have just had them wearing blind folds every time they fired their P90's. To spray that much and STILL miss even the horses is just awful. And the one that let the fem-bot pull his nade-- geez.
No kidding. The most laughable was the last episode when Ed Harris and Dolores are charging the security forces on horseback. Security has cover behind their vehicle and Ed Harris and Dolores are bouncing up and down on their horses. Both get head shots on them.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 2:47p, 6/28/18
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:
KidDoc said:
2) Stormtrooper/ Indiana Jones syndrome- the complete buffoonery of the security forces is eye-rolling awful. They should have just had them wearing blind folds every time they fired their P90's. To spray that much and STILL miss even the horses is just awful. And the one that let the fem-bot pull his nade-- geez.
No kidding. The most laughable was the last episode when Ed Harris and Dolores are charging the security forces on horseback. Security has cover behind their vehicle and Ed Harris and Dolores are bouncing up and down on their horses. Both get head shots on them.

Well I mean if they are robots would they not have incredible aim/dexterity/vision/etc.?

Are they supposed to be human-like in skills?.... I think with the programming they can modify they can be pretty damn near perfect such that they could pull off shots like that.

That's how I took it.

Now that doesn't change how bad the human security forces are - unless you know you are facing a superior enemy and just shooting randomly and hoping.

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AgEng06
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 2:49p, 6/28/18
AG
One of them is supposed to be a robot, right?
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to AgEng06 • 2:54p, 6/28/18
AG
AgEng06 said:
One of them is supposed to be a robot, right?
Well... one for sure. One who knows.

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KidDoc
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 3:08p, 6/28/18
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
Martin Q. Blank said:
KidDoc said:
2) Stormtrooper/ Indiana Jones syndrome- the complete buffoonery of the security forces is eye-rolling awful. They should have just had them wearing blind folds every time they fired their P90's. To spray that much and STILL miss even the horses is just awful. And the one that let the fem-bot pull his nade-- geez.
No kidding. The most laughable was the last episode when Ed Harris and Dolores are charging the security forces on horseback. Security has cover behind their vehicle and Ed Harris and Dolores are bouncing up and down on their horses. Both get head shots on them.

Well I mean if they are robots would they not have incredible aim/dexterity/vision/etc.?

Are they supposed to be human-like in skills?.... I think with the programming they can modify they can be pretty damn near perfect such that they could pull off shots like that.

That's how I took it.

Now that doesn't change how bad the human security forces are - unless you know you are facing a superior enemy and just shooting randomly and hoping.

I didn't have a problem with the bots getting multiple head shots, it is the security guards not able to hit a friggin horse with an automatic weapon from less than 100 feet. Just dumb.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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bobinator
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7:49p, 6/28/18
AG
Despite absolutely no evidence to support it, I've chosen to believe all the QA people are secret hosts that Ford programmed not to be able to kill anybody.
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claym711
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10:07p, 6/28/18
AG
The take comparing to true detective season 2 to west world 2 is the worst on this thread, and there are many.
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