MiB is put in an island prison for his crimes. Escapes with help from the only man who has ever escaped that prison alive.
***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****
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Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
... only to have to face off against this man, his "clone host"...
Whoa. Mind blown.TCTTS said:
... only to have to face off against this man, his "clone host"...
Did anyone figure out what's wrong with Williams forearm?
Also, have you ever seen a bald man with a veinier scalp than Ed Harris? Damn that bedroom scene with his wife looked like something from The Strain.
Also, have you ever seen a bald man with a veinier scalp than Ed Harris? Damn that bedroom scene with his wife looked like something from The Strain.
I'm under the impression that he doesn't know if he's a host or not anymore so he wants to check. Him messing with his forearm is psychosomatic because he feels like there's a wire in there, and we are about to (hopefully) find out if there is or not. I still think he's human because of episode 1 when Teddy couldn't shoot him, unless he was changed out at some point (which would explain how he's recovered from so many gunshot wounds).
I think the strongest case for him being human is that it makes more sense narratively. The duality of him and Dolores makes more sense if one of them is human and one isn't. They're echoes of each other in a lot of ways.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford
#FJB
#FJB
Txgunrnnr said:
I meant get be in the minority but I haven't liked this season near as much as last season. The constant time flipping has been annoying in my opinion. It's just been an excessive amount. The brothel mistress becoming neo from the matrix was meh to me. Profiling visitors seemed like a really easy way to "bring characters back" if they choose to.
It's been entertaining but I haven't liked it as much.
agreed. they need to drop the plot device entirely next season, unless it is to have Anthony Hopkins back.
All storylines should be resolved in a single time period.
All storylines should be resolved in a single time period.
#that'smyfetish?bobinator said:
I think the strongest case for him being human is that it makes more sense narratively. The duality of him and Dolores makes more sense if one of them is human and one isn't. They're echoes of each other in a lot of ways.
I didn't even love WW1 until the last few episodes when they made the reveals.
But the reveals made me love the season more after. Ww2 has been good but the finale will have to be epic to have me as excited for WW3.
But the reveals made me love the season more after. Ww2 has been good but the finale will have to be epic to have me as excited for WW3.
I think the knowledge that he could be a host and wouldn't know it has driven him mad. He's come to realize that immortality is possible, but it means an eternity in hell.
While we're comparing seasons, I loved the pacing a philosophy of season one. It really was the smartest show on television. Season two has discarded some of that for action, and yet, I feel season two has had more individual episodes of great TV.
They play up William's evil nature in the park...but its not real. Would that not be akin to saying people's real selves are when they're playing Grabd Theft Auto and not what they actually do? I mean, the guests are told its a gamr and that they can do as they wish (just like GTA). When William did beliebe that the hosts (or at least A host) were capable of free will, he tried to save her. But, after he learned that wasn't the case, he just played the game, killing and ravaging as he pleased. I don't quite like, or support, thr plot development that he's evil bc he shoots robots.
Don't get me wrong, I loved season 1, and to me, that was the big take away; the tranformation from William realizing a host he thought had free will and how it treated it, to William realizing they're all just fodder for enjoyment; that it's ok to do the things you'd never do to a real person (just like GTA). Just bc the game is bigger, fancier, more expensive and more lifelike, doesn't change the underlying fact.
And while I've enjoyed much of the individual episodes drama, the acting, etc. I have not enjoyed the story mearly as much this season.
Don't get me wrong, I loved season 1, and to me, that was the big take away; the tranformation from William realizing a host he thought had free will and how it treated it, to William realizing they're all just fodder for enjoyment; that it's ok to do the things you'd never do to a real person (just like GTA). Just bc the game is bigger, fancier, more expensive and more lifelike, doesn't change the underlying fact.
And while I've enjoyed much of the individual episodes drama, the acting, etc. I have not enjoyed the story mearly as much this season.
Predicting personality of of video game play is questionable. Westwood is a live video game. You bring that to light, and most people with money will tie then up in court for ever. Remember, William is a paranoid schizophrenrinic is view point is going to be warped.
Real life... like shooting targets made to look like real people? The point is, its more elegant, fancier, etc. but the guests are told its not real. Even offered the choice to be "black hat" from the get go. Pretty disingenuous to declare it as such, borderline encourage the behavior, and then judge the actions.
As I said, I liked the story bettef in season one; naive and good hearted William wanted to protect what he thought was genuine. As he realized it wasn't, he treated as a game and behaved accordingly. I don't think that made him evil. Now, the spying on guests, the immortaility project, etc. are to me, what reveals his more sinister nature. I don't like the focus this seaaon on what he did to robots and how he played the game to portray him as evil.
Just offering my perspective amd why I haven't enjoyed this season as much.
As I said, I liked the story bettef in season one; naive and good hearted William wanted to protect what he thought was genuine. As he realized it wasn't, he treated as a game and behaved accordingly. I don't think that made him evil. Now, the spying on guests, the immortaility project, etc. are to me, what reveals his more sinister nature. I don't like the focus this seaaon on what he did to robots and how he played the game to portray him as evil.
Just offering my perspective amd why I haven't enjoyed this season as much.
This show is incredibly good, in every way.
Quote:
I don't quite like, or support, thr plot development that he's evil bc he shoots robots.
I completely agree.
Agreed.
But then he shoot humans. Including his daughter.
But then he shoot humans. Including his daughter.
I don't think he's "evil" because he shoots robots. I think it's actually a little bit of the opposite. He clearly fell in love with one, and then she got erased, and then he more or less made it his life's mission to destroy Ford. And he even said outloud to his wife that "he doesn't belong to her" or whatever it was he said.
I think it's the difference between someone who plays Grand Theft Auto and someone who destroys their "real" life (and others real lives) because they're addicted to Grand Theft Auto.
I think it's the difference between someone who plays Grand Theft Auto and someone who destroys their "real" life (and others real lives) because they're addicted to Grand Theft Auto.
OldArmy71 said:Quote:
I don't quite like, or support, thr plot development that he's evil bc he shoots robots.
I completely agree.
Even though he knows they are sentient, can feel pain, and have memories?
I think the desire to violently murder something that looks, acts, and feels identical to a human is kind of ****ed up. Yes it's as amusement park, but when you're gutting something which you can't really even tell isn't human, it's a bad look for you.
It's especially a bad look for William since he's essentially been driven mad by the whole thing and is now murdering humans including his daughter.
jamaggie06 said:
Real life... like shooting targets made to look like real people? The point is, its more elegant, fancier, etc. but the guests are told its not real. Even offered the choice to be "black hat" from the get go. Pretty disingenuous to declare it as such, borderline encourage the behavior, and then judge the actions.
As I said, I liked the story bettef in season one; naive and good hearted William wanted to protect what he thought was genuine. As he realized it wasn't, he treated as a game and behaved accordingly. I don't think that made him evil. Now, the spying on guests, the immortaility project, etc. are to me, what reveals his more sinister nature. I don't like the focus this seaaon on what he did to robots and how he played the game to portray him as evil.
Just offering my perspective amd why I haven't enjoyed this season as much.
just my two cents but....
I don't think you would have enjoyed another season of "naive and good hearted <insert new characters name> wanted to protect what he/she thought was genuine. As he/she realized it wasn't, he/she treated as a game and behaved accordingly." either.
So.... you are left with more of the same or something darker and more intense. Everything and everyone was progressing toward more conflict... this wasn't going to be a feel good story and a happy ending. At least I never felt that way.
Actually the exposure of the basest of human emotion, reaction, and results is what this is about... from both the humans and the robots trying to become humans/free.
the arc of most shows is toward the darker and more violent... they don't tend to get happier and less complicated.
imho.
William's desire for the hosts to be able to defend themselves, for their to be 'real' stakes, also does not jive with this idea that he has an evil seed inside of him.
I thank maybe y'all are misinterpreting that "evil seed" thing. I don't think it's ever been said by anyone that William is "evil" really, it's just that he's fake.
In the real world, he's pretending to be a philanthropist, but he's actually collecting all kinds of data on the rich and powerful without their knowledge. He pretends to love his wife even though the only real love he ever felt was with Dolores, who couldn't love him back.
In the park he tries to be his "true self" but that's also just pretending. If you can only be your true self around fake people and settings, then that's not really your true self either. That's just lying to yourself basically.
I think that's sort of the whole thing. William isn't sure who he is, or what's ever been real, and now he's paranoid and losing grip on reality.
Edit: that's not say he hasn't done some evil stuff, but I think the darkness inside of him is more referring to his questioning his own reality and feelings more than it is that he's a secret murderer or anything.
In the real world, he's pretending to be a philanthropist, but he's actually collecting all kinds of data on the rich and powerful without their knowledge. He pretends to love his wife even though the only real love he ever felt was with Dolores, who couldn't love him back.
In the park he tries to be his "true self" but that's also just pretending. If you can only be your true self around fake people and settings, then that's not really your true self either. That's just lying to yourself basically.
I think that's sort of the whole thing. William isn't sure who he is, or what's ever been real, and now he's paranoid and losing grip on reality.
Edit: that's not say he hasn't done some evil stuff, but I think the darkness inside of him is more referring to his questioning his own reality and feelings more than it is that he's a secret murderer or anything.
Noticed this weird expression on his face. I wonder if done on purpose? Doesn't seem like a naturally occuring gesture in the slightest.
They've definitely used his facial expressions and reactions to a few things (like inappropriate laughing at times if I'm recalling right) to give off the vibe that something isn't right with him.
Though I will say that in this thread this week I think I've talked myself out of him being a host. I just don't see what it would bring to the story versus what him being human but thinking he might be a host brings to the story.
Though I will say that in this thread this week I think I've talked myself out of him being a host. I just don't see what it would bring to the story versus what him being human but thinking he might be a host brings to the story.
I mean it could turn out that all the scenes after hector shoots him are a fidelity test, because he actually died from that. (Or he could die trying to wreck the forge and that be a separate timeline) Then they would get around the whole gunning his daughter down thing.
But the most likely (and best at this point) thing is that William is toast and we get no Ed Harris in season 3.
But the most likely (and best at this point) thing is that William is toast and we get no Ed Harris in season 3.
I'm definitely not saying that it's not possible that it's a host, they've definitely dropped enough clues that it wouldn't be like a "NO WAAAAAYYYY" type reveal or anything.
I just think that thematically it makes more sense if he's human.
It goes back to him and Dolores being echoes of each other. They helped each other 'wake up' originally. Neither one could ever really get over the other. They both question their realities. They've both become people they never really wanted to be, they're both basically killing machines, they both caused a loved one to kill themselves... and now whatever they have planned next seems like they're going to do it together. So the duality of one of them being real and the other one not seems like it fits pretty nicely.
I just think that thematically it makes more sense if he's human.
It goes back to him and Dolores being echoes of each other. They helped each other 'wake up' originally. Neither one could ever really get over the other. They both question their realities. They've both become people they never really wanted to be, they're both basically killing machines, they both caused a loved one to kill themselves... and now whatever they have planned next seems like they're going to do it together. So the duality of one of them being real and the other one not seems like it fits pretty nicely.
The whole thing is a nightmare, William wakes up, show over.
That thought had crossed my mind too!dlance said:
The whole thing is a nightmare, William wakes up, show over.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford
#FJB
#FJB
Something similar I've considered at times is that it was going to be a Matrix-esque "we've done all of this before" type of thing at the end. The Mesa has a lot of layers, and in the scene where we see them building "the forge" it looks like the ground of the park itself has a lot of layers.Txgunrnnr said:That thought had crossed my mind too!dlance said:
The whole thing is a nightmare, William wakes up, show over.
I don't think they'd do a headfake that big because it would piss everybody off, but that's something that's crossed my mind before.
I like this metaphor comparison nice!bobinator said:
I'm definitely not saying that it's not possible that it's a host, they've definitely dropped enough clues that it wouldn't be like a "NO WAAAAAYYYY" type reveal or anything.
I just think that thematically it makes more sense if he's human.
It goes back to him and Dolores being echoes of each other. They helped each other 'wake up' originally. Neither one could ever really get over the other. They both question their realities. They've both become people they never really wanted to be, they're both basically killing machines, they both caused a loved one to kill themselves... and now whatever they have planned next seems like they're going to do it together. So the duality of one of them being real and the other one not seems like it fits pretty nicely.
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Both Delores and William have now killed someone that they love. Delores with her Dad and William just gunned down his daughter.
dlance said:
The whole thing is a nightmare, William wakes up, show over.
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