***Official 2019-2020 Dallas Mavericks Season Thread***

206,763 Views | 2280 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by M.C. Swag
mavsfan4ever
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hph6203 said:

mavsfan4ever said:

hph6203 said:

Name one player. Just one.


I've already named many players that I'd like. Bogdanovic, Ross, Beverly, brogdon (no draft picks so this wasn't going to happen), etc.

If we made offers and got rejected, then that's one thing. That's not what happened. I don't believe that we made multiple offers and multiple phone calls, and that none of this was reported. The opposite is being reported.

You are missing the point. The Mavs didn't make the playoffs last year.

Bogdanovic went to a team that finished 17 games ahead of the Mavs.
Beverly resigned with a playoff team.
Ross resigned with a playoff team.
Brogdon signed with a playoff team and required draft compensation to ensure Milwaukee didn't match.

You still have not named one player that changed teams to a non-playoff team that you wish the Mavs would have signed.

So you'd have to pay substantially more to get those players to sign here and you have to consider if those payments are worth negatively impacting the team's ability to improve in the future, because those signings aren't going to get this team all the way to where you want to go.

So can you really be upset with the Mavs front office for not doing anything substantial other than getting Curry to this point? Probably not. You have to realize that, by in large, sportswriters aren't that good at reporting things, because what they're reporting in the grand scheme of things aren't that important.


Again, look at what the Hawks did, and tell me you'd rather the Mavs do that. They went into free agency with the same situation, almost exactly, and they've swapped talent for talent and facilitated the Nets signing KD. It could be a lot worse, at least the Mavs still have ample flexibility to improve and they didn't settle for adding Dragic.


Someone said their friends aren't upset, because you can't force someone to play for you. That's accurate. That's the point. Ignore the narrative and analyze what actually happened and what could have gone different, because you don't know if the narrative of them doing nothing is accurate, because you weren't there and neither were the people writing the stories or even the people leaking the stories. It could be some irate woman that's upset the Mavs have a "Toxic work environment" and wants to make them look bad. Who knows.


I don't agree with any of this but not going to type a long response on my phone. We aren't Charlotte. Players are not going to refuse to come here because we didn't make the playoffs next year. . We are in a better or equal spot moving forward as Orlando, Miami, Clippers, pacers, etc.

Making the playoffs last year doesn't mean much, especially when we add porzingis and could have added more good players this summer. Players aren't dumb. They can look at rosters and decide if a team's future looks bright. Butler went to Miami. We are better than Miami. Ross went to Orlando. We are better than Orlando. Brogdon went to pacers. We are slightly better or worse than pacers depending on how you think porzingis will work out.

It feels like you have a relative that works in the front office. You are hypothesizing everything that could have possibly happened in an effort to make them not look awful. And I'm not sure why. While the reports may not be 100% accurate, it's all we have to go on. Not sure why you would completely ignore the reports because they may not be 100% correct, and then go on to guess about what could have happen (when there are no reports backing up whatnyou are guessing about).
hph6203
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Would you agree that the Mavs are effectively the Hawks? Because they are. Porzingis is an uncertainty (I think he will be good, but the league doesn't know) and the consensus is the Hawks and Mavs have the same level of young talent. The Hawks did nothing. And clearly making the playoffs does matter, because you cannot name one free agent that you'd want the Mavs to sign that went to a non-playoff team. The difference is I have realistic expectations and don't just assume that because they failed to acquire talent it's because they didn't try.

And don't give me reports, because sportswriters are idiots. ESPN posted that the Mavs drafted Jarrett Culver on draft night. That's how incompetent they are. They didn't know the Mavs dropped in the draft due to the lottery, they didn't know that the pick conveyed to Atlanta because it wasn't top 5, they looked at the finishing standings and said 6th worst is the Mavs, the 6th pick was Jarrett Culver. The Mavs therefore drafted Culver.

And no, it's not totally use it or lose it for the cap space. The Mavs as they sit will have 13 million in space next off-season:
http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=1007664365d1e6048e6718259161779

And 42 million in space in 2021 when the free agency crop improves. That's what they're concerned about.

Here's what it looks like if we had signed Danny Green and Marcus Morris to all available space:
http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=18307824575d1e63f9aa1e8742455278

If you structure the Morris contract with a team option on year 3 or sign him to a 2 year deal, you could navigate your way to freeing up enough space to sign a max free agent in the 2021 off-season just before you're hamstrung by paying Luka his full value.

The (realistic) moves y'all are talking about will make this team better for a year, and then you're back to the drawing board with less cap space next off-season trying to do it all over again. I'd much rather they go out, try to improve long term, keep flexibility into 2021 and try to improve this team for the next 2-3 years to establish a higher baseline of performance than just do the same stuff people have been complaining about for years where this team turns over every year. If it doesn't work, then at least they tried to build for more than just one year.

The Mavs as constructed should compete for a playoff spot. It's roughly the same team as last year with Porzingis instead of Dirk and they're not done yet.
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mavsfan4ever
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No I don't think we are the hawks. With porzingis, we are in a much better situation than the hawks (I like Trae young and Collins but to compare them to Luka and porzingis is a very big reach).

Your playoff team argument is just weird. I would get it if everyone was going to top teams. But you are pointing to players going to Miami, Orlando and Indiana (who won't have oladipo for most of year). Give me a break.

I don't want to hamstring the team moving forward. I didn't want Horford because he could be a negative asset in a couple years. But signing players under 30 wouldn't hamstring the team. We didn't even try.

Having space next year means nothing. There are no free agents. Having space in 2021 is good, but why spend money then and not now? We won't land a big fish then, and will be trying to sign the same type of players we could have signed this year. And according to your theory, if we don't make playoffs this year and next, which is a very distinct possibility with our current roster, then we won't be able to sign anyone again in 2021.

We were awful after the trades last year. And basically all we have done is add porzingis. I love the guy but he's not adding 20 wins. You can't go by our total wins from last year because a lot of those were with Barnes, Deandre and Wes. I'm glad we got rid of all of them but we were a much better team with them than after we have them all away. After we traded them we were on a much less than 33 win pace.

hph6203
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I'll summarize by saying this, just because you don't hear about an offer doesn't mean it didn't happen. It is not totally out of the realm of possibility that the Mavs called the agents of all of those players and they said they weren't interested at the rate they signed for. You, generally speaking, don't hear about those offers. You hear about the offer they accepted and the offer their current team made. You think Utah is the only team that called Bojan's people? Nope, but what other offers have you heard about? Indiana's.

You are assuming things that you don't have any first hand knowledge of. At best you have second hand knowledge, but in reality it's probably tertiary. You're pissed about them not making moves yet, I get that, but to say they never even tried is a load.


And we are the Hawks, Porzingis and Luka are better than Young and Collins if healthy, but Porzingis has been injured a lot in his career and he hasn't played a minute of basketball in 17 months.

Anyway, it's not worth arguing about anymore. Just not a big fan of people acting like other people suck/aren't trying just because things didn't go the way they wanted.
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mavsfan4ever
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i agree That just because we didn't hear about the offers doesn't mean they didn't make them. I agree that it's possible that all the reporters are wrong or just didn't hear about certain things.

But you are saying that I am wrong for believing we didn't make offers or try very hard when the reports say just that. And that those reports are second or third hand reports. And then you are are arguing that we should believe we did actually make offers. And you don't even have second or third hand reports supporting that. Do you honestly not see the hypocrisy there?

And I disagree that we are the hawks. But that's not worth talking about.
mavsfan4ever
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I haven't heard many people talk about KCP. He may be a decent option. But I haven't heard what his expected contract numbers would be.

Anyone heard anything with him? I'm guessing he's another guy waiting for kawhi to decide?
rsf0626
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Danny green still waiting for Kawhi to decide just indicates to me he couldnt care less about going to the Mavs...seems like a leverage play to get to the lakers (if kawhi goes clippers or raptors). If he wanted to sign here, he would have already
hph6203
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Nothing you just said makes any sense.
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rsf0626
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Its not hard..Danny green doesnt want to go to the mavs, he wants to go to the lakers. If kawhi picks the clippers or raptors, Danny Green could use the mavs as leverage to get a big offer from the lakers because they have the cap space available also. If danny green really wanted to be a mav he would have signed here already
awinlonghorn
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my take:

once the mavs lost out on Kemba, they didnt want to sign any other role players to a big contract. This feels like the real early days of nash/nowtizki, like the 2000/2001 season.

lets KP and Luka grow and develop together for a few years, then sign some big role players in 2021 once they feel liek they can truly contend.

even with kemba or any other big role player signings, there is no way mavs are winning anything for next two years. so why not let these two guys grow, save money and then spend big or trade big when they are ready to contend?
hph6203
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rsf0626 said:

Its not hard..Danny green doesnt want to go to the mavs, he wants to go to the lakers. If kawhi picks the clippers or raptors, Danny Green could use the mavs as leverage to get a big offer from the lakers because they have the cap space available also. If danny green really wanted to be a mav he would have signed here already
Apparently it is hard, so I'll explain it to you.

Green is waiting on Kawhi's decision, because he wants to defend the title they just won in Toronto and staying in Toronto means plenty of money for Green, because they own his full Bird Rights by virtue of the trade from San Antonio. He hasn't signed with the Mavs, because he prefers to play for Toronto (not LAL) over Dallas.

If Kawhi signs with the Raptors, Green is 100% going to re-sign with the Raptors.

If Kawhi signs with the Lakers, then the Lakers only have the Room Exception (starts at 4.7 mllion in the first year and is a maximum of a two year contract). If Kawhi signs with the Lakers then Danny Green either signs with the Mavericks for full market value, the Clippers for full market value, or the Lakers to a contract where the total value of the two year contract he'll receive is less than he'd make in the first year with either team.

If Kawhi signs with the Clippers either the Clippers will clear cap space by dumping Gallinari or Green will sign with either the Lakers or Mavericks for full market value. At this point it seems unlikely that Kawhi is going to sign with the Clippers as they are running third and it's Kawhi's dream to play for the Lakers, but he's concerned about culture and fit. He knows the Raptors and how they operate and whether or not they can be successful.


To summarize. The odds of Danny Green ending up with the Lakers in any capacity is remote, because it means he either took a 7 million per year pay cut to play with Kawhi, or Kawhi signed with the Clippers. Both are unlikely. So, again, nothing you just said makes sense.
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Grapesoda2525
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hph6203 said:

rsf0626 said:

Its not hard..Danny green doesnt want to go to the mavs, he wants to go to the lakers. If kawhi picks the clippers or raptors, Danny Green could use the mavs as leverage to get a big offer from the lakers because they have the cap space available also. If danny green really wanted to be a mav he would have signed here already
Apparently it is hard, so I'll explain it to you.

Green is waiting on Kawhi's decision, because he wants to defend the title they just won in Toronto and staying in Toronto means plenty of money for Green, because they own his full Bird Rights by virtue of the trade from San Antonio. He hasn't signed with the Mavs, because he prefers to play for Toronto (not LAL) over Dallas.

If Kawhi signs with the Raptors, Green is 100% going to re-sign with the Raptors.

If Kawhi signs with the Lakers, then the Lakers only have the Room Exception (starts at 4.7 mllion in the first year and is a maximum of a two year contract). If Kawhi signs with the Lakers then Danny Green either signs with the Mavericks for full market value, the Clippers for full market value, or the Lakers to a contract where the total value of the two year contract he'll receive is less than he'd make in the first year with either team.

If Kawhi signs with the Clippers either the Clippers will clear cap space by dumping Gallinari or Kawhi will sign with either the Lakers or Mavericks for full market value. At this point it seems unlikely that Kawhi is going to sign with the Clippers as they are running third and it's Kawhi's dream to play for the Lakers, but he's concerned about culture and fit. He knows the Raptors and how they operate and whether or not they can be successful.


To summarize. The odds of Danny Green ending up with the Lakers in any capacity is remote, because it means he either took a 7 million per year pay cut to play with Kawhi, or Kawhi signed with the Clippers. Both are unlikely. So, again, nothing you just said makes sense.
The way I interpret the Green situation is

Kawhi to Toronto - Green stays and mavs get nothing

Kawhi to lakers - Green to Mavericks

Kawhi to clippers- clippers could pull in green too, in this case they would likely dump Galinari to mavs to make room.

2 of 3 scenarios look pretty good for Mavericks and that's why the mavs front office isn't doing anything right now.
Iowaggie
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mavsfan4ever said:

I haven't heard many people talk about KCP. He may be a decent option. But I haven't heard what his expected contract numbers would be.

Anyone heard anything with him? I'm guessing he's another guy waiting for kawhi to decide?

Heard rumor he is going to the LA team that does not get Kawhi, but wants to stay in LA.

Can't say that the sources were strong, informed or credible, so it probably means nothing.
mavsfan4ever
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Guess he's fallen hard. I remember there was talk of him possibly getting a max a few years ago, with the thought being he would continue to improve. He's still only 26. But sounds like he will he signing for fairly cheap. So I'm guessing he hasn't played well the last couple of years.
hph6203
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Yeah, that's basically it, but wanted to provide the rationale, because he said it wasn't hard.

Kawhi to Lakers tomorrow. It's what he really wants, but he's worried about switching it up. If it wasn't this wouldn't have dragged on so long.

Sign Danny Green.
Sign Delon Wright to an offer sheet.
Curious if that bumps THJ to the 6th man role. Maybe that's where he already is with Seth.

Feel like they have enough bigs and could use an upgrade at PG/SG/SF (depending on where you peg Luka, PG offense, SG/SF defense).

You'd have to be pretty happy with that. No player is Brogdon/Bogdanovich, but collectively they might match that level of upgrade through depth/versatility.
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rsf0626
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Woj dropping some nuclear bombs right now...kawhi to the clippers along with Paul George in a trade...we're about to be in a bidding war for Danny Green, which we will probably lose out on
Grapesoda2525
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rsf0626 said:

Woj dropping some nuclear bombs right now...kawhi to the clippers along with Paul George in a trade...we're about to be in a bidding war for Danny Green, which we will probably lose out on
I guess it's between us and lakers for green?
Seven Costanza
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He chose the Lakers.
Grapesoda2525
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The offseason is officially a BUST unless the Mavericks can engineer a trade with this cap space that is "use it or lose it" for this year. I hope that dinner with porzingis tasted good while 60-70% of desirable free agents were making deals.

Our deadbeat front office hasn't really brought anyone on board who was an "outsider" to the team except for the guy from the 76ers who will play 10-15 mins a game as a seldom used back up. Seth Curry and all the guys they brought back had prior ties to the team. This front office hasn't demonstrated any creativity or the ability to "sell" the team in anyway. What an epic fail.
Seven Costanza
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May be tough to make the playoffs in the West...

(In no particular order):
Houston
LAC
Denver
Utah
Portland
LAL
Golden State
San Antonio
Dallas
Grapesoda2525
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What has to sting for the Mavericks front office is Green didn't even take time to think about it. Kawhi announced, and right when Green knew Kawhi wasn't coming to Toronto, it was a quick call to the lakers to accept their offer. Heck the lakers didn't even extend a formal offer until they got turned down by Kawhi. The lakers offered green and he accepted instantly without thinking about it.

Our front office gets out maneuvered and embarrassed so badly.
Grapesoda2525
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Seven Costanza said:

May be tough to make the playoffs in the West...

(In no particular order):
Houston
LAC
Denver
Utah
Portland
LAL
Golden State
San Antonio
Dallas
Would be pretty sad if we didn't do better than golden state next year. The warriors don't have iggy anymore, don't have KD, Thompson won't be back until March and he probably won't be back into form until the following season.
PatAg
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THJ for Steph, who says no first?
Seven Costanza
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We shall see. Curry, Green, and Russell (if they don't flip him for something else) isn't nothing.
crazeyalex
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As of right now, I have no playoffs for Mavs next year:

(No order)

Lakers
Clippers
Rockets
Warriors
Blazers
Nuggets
Jazz
Spurs

Realistically, you're going to have Mavs, Spurs, Thunder, Pelicans, Kings battling for one spot IMO.
ghostofthebanned
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Well that's just about the most painful outcome. This free agency period has now got to be the worst since 2000, right? Given the context, the amount of cap we had, the excitement we finally had to sell....what a ****ing disaster.

hph6203
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Could be worse, could be the Raptors. Best player is now Kyle Lowry? Pascal Siakam? Ouch.
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Grapesoda2525
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hph6203 said:

Could be worse, could be the Raptors. Best player is now Kyle Lowry? Pascal Siakam? Ouch.
I don't mind being the raptors right now actually. At least they just won a championship.
mavsfan4ever
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ghostofthebanned said:

Well that's just about the most painful outcome. This free agency period has now got to be the worst since 2000, right? Given the context, the amount of cap we had, the excitement we finally had to sell....what a ****ing disaster.




Yea. This literally could not have gone worse. If you told me before the summer that we would wind up with Seth Curry and boban...and that's it...I would have laughed you out of the building. And if you told me we didn't really even appear to offer anyone with all the space we had, I would've thought you were just trolling me. But here we are.

So frustrating.
True Anomaly
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Some of y'all have some extremely short memories

The worst free agency in recent history is 2015 off season when DeAndre Jordan agreed and then went back on his agreement and ****ed us bigtime, so we had to sign ****ing ZAZA PACHULIA in his place, and we had NO young stars to fall back on. And this was the summer after Rondo decided he didn't want to actually try in the playoffs.

It could always be worse, guys
mavsfan4ever
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No, this year was worse in my opinion. We had no one back then. Whether we got Deandre or not, we weren't competing for years. This year, we have two cornerstones, which makes the free agency debacle hurt much more.

Are we in better shape now than we were back then? Yes because we have Luka and KP. But that's a different conversation than which free agency period was more frustrating.
hph6203
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Grapesoda2525 said:

hph6203 said:

Could be worse, could be the Raptors. Best player is now Kyle Lowry? Pascal Siakam? Ouch.
I don't mind being the raptors right now actually. At least they just won a championship.

Could be the Thunder.
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Guitarsoup
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hph6203 said:

Grapesoda2525 said:

hph6203 said:

Could be worse, could be the Raptors. Best player is now Kyle Lowry? Pascal Siakam? Ouch.
I don't mind being the raptors right now actually. At least they just won a championship.

Could be the Thunder.
Thunder are in a decent spot. Got a perfect stretch 4 to go next to Adams, got a young promising talent (still not old enough to buy a beer) in Shai and picked up five first round picks and two pick swaps. Their biggest problem right now is that they need to cut salary in a big bad way, So Dallas may be on the receiving end of those picks to absorb salary. OKC is 11mm and change over the luxury tax line right now and has a 31mm tax bill in addition to the 143mm in salary.
M.C. Swag
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Dallas Dump Team
rsf0626
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I imagine the mavs are about to get on the phone with okc to get in on their firesale. We're probably the only nba team left with significant cap space
 
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