Agnzona said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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Beverley agrees to resign with clips.


Donnie Nelson is terrible.

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Listening to the sports talk this morning most seem to think Cuban is the real problem. Either unbelievably overconfident and completely misreads what players think of the organization or just rudderless, ruining by committee with no leadership

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Seems to be a case of Knicks-itis. Cuban is way too spread out with his other business interests to run the team day to day. Jerry catches hell from the media for this but Cuban seems to skate........

chris1515 said:

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If there was truly mutual interest in Beverly to the Mavs, do you think he would have been so impatient to just up and sign the deal that he did without waiting a few more hours?

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Bingo. Plus you can't make big moves on big players by overpaying mediocre players without costing you a lot to get rid of those mediocre players. Look at basically what the Knicks have done every year since Patrick Ewing left.

Guitarsoup said:

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I'm sure they had an idea of what the Clippers were offering and passed. Why sit down if you know you aren't going to shell out that much money for a player? Grossly overpaying for a player that doesn't exactly have a unique skillset, is 31 and has a bad history of injuries is not a smart move. He's a 6' tall D&3 player. There are a ton of D&3 players out there and a lot of them that can guard more than one position. Danny Green is likely a better fit with actual Finals experience and he will be cheaper. Plus he can guard thee positions, rather than just point.

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That could be the case, but i think it's incredibly naive to give this FO that benefit of the doubt when by all appearances, their Plan A was to sign Olynk and Derrick Jones Jr in a SNT. Whatever differences you and I have about Beverley as a player and his value to a team, there's no debate that he is infinitely more serviceable to the Mavs than the only move the Mavs have 'tried' to make.

I'm done with this part of the discussion. You can disagree about anything else, but I'm not listening to anyone who pretends that 16 hours into Free Agency, the Mavs somehow aren't failing.

That's just it, we are just a few hours into it. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the team is really like.

Could it have gone better? Certainly. Is there a lot of time between now and the trade deadline? Absolutely.

Guitarsoup said:

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That's just it, we are just a few hours into it. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the team is really like.

Could it have gone better? Certainly. Is there a lot of time between now and the trade deadline? Absolutely.

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Who exactly do you think we're getting? Green is not coming. One of the Morris twins? Boogie? Looney? WES MATTHEWS?

The issue isn't that there's still time...the issue is that the pool of quality players has dwindled dramatically.

M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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That's just it, we are just a few hours into it. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the team is really like.

Could it have gone better? Certainly. Is there a lot of time between now and the trade deadline? Absolutely.

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Who exactly do you think we're getting? Green is not coming. One of the Morris twins? Boogie? Looney? WES MATTHEWS?

The issue isn't that there's still time...the issue is that the pool of quality players has dwindled dramatically.

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Yeah, but they still have "financial flexibilty"

M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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That's just it, we are just a few hours into it. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the team is really like.

Could it have gone better? Certainly. Is there a lot of time between now and the trade deadline? Absolutely.

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Who exactly do you think we're getting? Green is not coming. One of the Morris twins? Boogie? Looney? WES MATTHEWS?

The issue isn't that there's still time...the issue is that the pool of quality players has dwindled dramatically.

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Trades are a thing that exists.

At this point, it's pretty clear that Donnie was caught with his pants around his ankles. Based on Brad Townsend's reporting, the Mavs thought the market would be slow to develop and they definitely operated under that assumption. Brogdon, Young, Favors, Bojan, Horford, all came off the board quickly. The fact that GS executed a SNT for Deangelo Russell and then offloaded Iggy to Memphis with a 2024 1st was the last straw. Someone was asleep at the wheel for the Mavs and transactions were whizzing past their stand still plan.

Guitarsoup said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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That's just it, we are just a few hours into it. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the team is really like.

Could it have gone better? Certainly. Is there a lot of time between now and the trade deadline? Absolutely.

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Who exactly do you think we're getting? Green is not coming. One of the Morris twins? Boogie? Looney? WES MATTHEWS?

The issue isn't that there's still time...the issue is that the pool of quality players has dwindled dramatically.

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Trades are a thing that exists.

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WHAT ARE WE TRADING?! We have nothing to offer other than the role of "Dump Team" for organizations that actually have assets to swap. I love your positive attitude, but man, that's a ton of rationalizing.

How long ago was it that Dallas traded for Portzingus? Dallas has had a pretty strong history over the last 20 years or so of landing all-stars through big trades.

Guitarsoup said:

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How long ago was it that Dallas traded for Portzingus? Dallas has had a pretty strong history over the last 20 years or so of landing all-stars through big trades.

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January. The deal happened in January. And the Mavs knew in JANUARY that they'd have $30m in cap space and 6 months to make a plan to use that money. Wtf did they do during that time period? They got pat on the back for that trade in January. That doesn't absolve you from doing your job the rest of the year.

M.C. Swag said:

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They will have to overpay to get him at this point. I don't understand why there wasn't a backup plan when the market unfolded quicker then they expected. The basketball ops side of the organization needs a total refresh at the top levels.

Seriously, did they even have remotely serious discussions with any player of consequence that would address any of the multiple areas of need for this team.

Guitarsoup said:

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chris1515 said:

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If there was truly mutual interest in Beverly to the Mavs, do you think he would have been so impatient to just up and sign the deal that he did without waiting a few more hours?

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Bingo. Plus you can't make big moves on big players by overpaying mediocre players without costing you a lot to get rid of those mediocre players. Look at basically what the Knicks have done every year since Patrick Ewing left.

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I'm gonna console myself with this way of thinking

I'm an optimistic guy, but this ****ing bums me out

"Plan Powder" is a repeat failure going on almost a decade. While I'm glad they didn't sign Beverly for 15M per year there were still plenty of ways to use cap space on players who could have improved the roster next year, be potential core pieces for the next 5 years and still be trade-able (if necessary). Lamb and Brogdon both received reasonable deals for instance and would have provided complementary shooting/defense on the wings.

It is still too early to give a final verdict but it is hard to see how the Mavs make themselves into a playoff team next year. The post trade Mavs went 8-21 (38%) down the stretch. The 8th seed Clippers won 58% of their games for reference. The Mavs currently have added Porzingis to that same 38% winning team. Obviously he improves things but it doesn't seem realistic that he is going to be worth a 20% increase to the win percentage. Further, this talk of the Mavs being a "dump team", while botching the Dragic/Olynyck thing, makes it seem like the Mavs don't really have a strategy at all (other than 2021 "Plan Powder").

There is still a chance that the Mavs patience will pay off and net them some decent values. Maybe the Mavs will sign Danny Green (career 40% from 3), Marcus Morris (36% from 3), JaMychal Green (37% from 3) and either Looney or Cauley-Stein on the cheap. Who knows. It is just hard to be confident right now because this seems an awful lot like "Plan Powder", 2021 and Giannis.

Bulls looking to dump Kris Dunn. A year of him for free wouldn't be a bad move.

The unfortunate thing about powder is that it doesn't win games. It just sits there the whole season. The mavs always say "we'll get em next year! We will have cap space and nobody else will!". Other teams always have cap space.

What an epic fail.

Guitarsoup said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Dude, the Mavs had a meeting with Pat Beverley but told him to fck off and wait so they could try and trade for Kelly Olynyk in order to help the Heat get Jimmy Butler.

You can't make up this lunacy. This was the year to strike. To add $30m of quality players alongside Luka and KP should have been THE PLAN. "Keeping powder dry" such a laughably awful idea.

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Pat also resigned with his current team in LA (more desirable place to live than any Texas city to most basketball players) for 3y40mm. He's a good role player, but are you really wanting to pay $15mm/year for a 31 year old 8/5/4 player that has had a lot of injuries over the years including micro fracture surgery? Do you think the Mavs are a championship team in 2019 or 2020 with Bev but wouldn't be a Championship team without Bev? That's a ton of money for him.

Plus even with a 15mm/year deal, there is no guarantee that he wants to move from the place he has lived for two years.

If you are getting Bev for 5-10mm/year range, then yeah. But in the 13-18mm/year range? Hard pass.

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I get your point, but right now there's way more money in the league than there is talent. If you want someone you're going to have to pay. I'm not a big Beverly fan, because I don't see how it fits their overarching plan. With 2 young stars you should be either acquiring young, raw talent or signing older veterans to short deals to keep trade flexibility. Your goal should be getting another 2 good, young players by any means necessary.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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The unfortunate thing about powder is that it doesn't win games. It just sits there the whole season. The mavs always say "we'll get em next year! We will have cap space and nobody else will!". Other teams always have cap space.

What an epic fail.

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Or a team like the Knicks decide they want to blow it up and rebuild, so they trade their franchise player for a young kind of meh point guard and cap space.

Rockets have been shopping Capela and Gordon for a draft pick. Right now the only teams that can do that are the Clippers, Mavs, and Lakers and the Lakers won't do it.

Washington was shopping Beal, because they need to blow it up.

I think there are a lot of potential moves to be made.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Dude, the Mavs had a meeting with Pat Beverley but told him to fck off and wait so they could try and trade for Kelly Olynyk in order to help the Heat get Jimmy Butler.

You can't make up this lunacy. This was the year to strike. To add $30m of quality players alongside Luka and KP should have been THE PLAN. "Keeping powder dry" such a laughably awful idea.

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Pat also resigned with his current team in LA (more desirable place to live than any Texas city to most basketball players) for 3y40mm. He's a good role player, but are you really wanting to pay $15mm/year for a 31 year old 8/5/4 player that has had a lot of injuries over the years including micro fracture surgery? Do you think the Mavs are a championship team in 2019 or 2020 with Bev but wouldn't be a Championship team without Bev? That's a ton of money for him.

Plus even with a 15mm/year deal, there is no guarantee that he wants to move from the place he has lived for two years.

If you are getting Bev for 5-10mm/year range, then yeah. But in the 13-18mm/year range? Hard pass.

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I get your point, but right now there's way more money in the league than there is talent. If you want someone you're going to have to pay. I'm not a big Beverly fan, because I don't see how it fits their overarching plan. With 2 young stars you should be either acquiring young, raw talent or signing older veterans to short deals to keep trade flexibility. Your goal should be getting another 2 good, young players by any means necessary.

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That's exactly my point. You don't waste that much of your cap on old, broken down Pat Bev.

i agree with not signing beverley if he's your only signing. if you could have gotten brogdon or bogdanovich, then i love adding beverley, but he's definitely not a solution by himself.

What a bunch of lazy idiots. They misread the market in a big way and assumed everything would develop "slowly".

Guitarsoup said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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The unfortunate thing about powder is that it doesn't win games. It just sits there the whole season. The mavs always say "we'll get em next year! We will have cap space and nobody else will!". Other teams always have cap space.

What an epic fail.

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Or a team like the Knicks decide they want to blow it up and rebuild, so they trade their franchise player for a young kind of meh point guard and cap space.

That's irrelevant to this FA. Mavs had 6 months to make a plan for their cap space after the KP trade.

Rockets have been shopping Capela and Gordon for a draft pick. Right now the only teams that can do that are the Clippers, Mavs, and Lakers and the Lakers won't do it.

We do not have a first round pick to offer. Unless you're proposing an unprotected '20 first for Capela. Which would be absurd.

Washington was shopping Beal, because they need to blow it up.

They are NOT shopping Beal. The exact opposite is happening as they are negotiating an extension. And even if they did, Mavs have 0 things to offer for him.

I think there are a lot of potential moves to be made.

The mavs have no assets to swap. Cap space is the only thing they have which means their role in a trade is absorbing someone else's bad deal.

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Old School Brother said:

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i agree with not signing beverley if he's your only signing. if you could have gotten brogdon or bogdanovich, then i love adding beverley, but he's definitely not a solution by himself.

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Brogdon would have been perfect, but 4y/85mm is a tough pill to swallow on him.

Guitarsoup said:

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Old School Brother said:

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i agree with not signing beverley if he's your only signing. if you could have gotten brogdon or bogdanovich, then i love adding beverley, but he's definitely not a solution by himself.

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Brogdon would have been perfect, but 4y/85mm is a tough pill to swallow on him.

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why, he is a younger and on the rise so to speak.

2wealfth Man said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Old School Brother said:

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i agree with not signing beverley if he's your only signing. if you could have gotten brogdon or bogdanovich, then i love adding beverley, but he's definitely not a solution by himself.

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Brogdon would have been perfect, but 4y/85mm is a tough pill to swallow on him.

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why, he is a younger and on the rise so to speak.

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We don't know how much he will improve. If he keeps improving, 25% of the cap will be a solid deal for him. If his improvements are minimal and he tops out at being a great shooter, solid defender and 16/3/4 player, then you are overpaying a bit. He did miss something like 50 games over the last two years.

If your choices are Bev at 15mm and Brogdon at 21, Brogdon is a no brainer.

Olsen said:

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Cue the FART noise please.

Resigned Seth Curry; f'n kidding me

Keeps him from the Lakers.

I like Seth Curry, he's a good shooter. Liked him when he was a Mav before he left.

sincereag said:

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I like Seth Curry, he's a good shooter. Liked him when he was a Mav before he left.

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he was injured here; a non-factor; still about $22 million in cap space. Maybe they do take on Dragic now.

Guitarsoup said:

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How long ago was it that Dallas traded for Portzingus? Dallas has had a pretty strong history over the last 20 years or so of landing all-stars through big trades.

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We literally have nothing to trade. We can't even trade any first round draft picks because we have traded them all (and you can't trade 1st round picks for consecutive years).

This was as bad as it gets for free agency. I normally would agree that keeping the powder dry is better than spending big on decent players. But the decent players in this free agent class are light years better than the best players in next year's class. There is literally no one available next year in free agency. Fred VanVleet is literally a top 4-5 player in next year's class. So it makes no sense to keep the powder dry.

If we got something like Beverly and Bogdanovic, then it's realistic to think that we would be semi-contenders the next few years. People forget just how good Porzingis is. So if he's healthy and Luke steadily improves, we could easily have 2 top 10 players in the league for the next few years. If that's the case, adding players like Beverly, Bogdanovic, Danny Green, etc greatly helps us get to where we need to be.

I think we could've gotten Bogdanovic and Beverly or Terrence Ross. Bogdanovic went for less than what I thought. I don't think we could've gotten Brogdon because we couldn't give up picks like the Pacers did.

Now, I have no clue what we do. There is no one left to sign. We can't trade for anyone. And next year's class is beyond awful. So we are somewhat stuck with what we have now.

I remember he played good here in Dallas when he was healthy, and he played good in the playoffs for Portland.