culdeus said:

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I think I'm going to move to a LP PPL program. Probably the most popular one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

I'm getting frustrated with 5x5. I feel like I'm spending far too much time dicking around in the gym being exhausted from set to set, and spending an hour and a half to make 50-75 reps.

This one has me in the gym more and is more accessory based. It keeps the core 5x5 lifts and puts them first.

Any thoughts?

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How long have you been doing Stronglift? Once you get enough experience in it, you can branch out to other workouts and tweak it. Remember, SL is only meant to be a beginners workout.

I haven't done PPL, but am familiar with it.

I am a member of that sub on Reddit, though, and if you're interested in getting into shape, getting stronger, or just feeling better about your workouts, you won't find a more supportive place than that sub.

I dropped to 3x5 and then 3x3 when it got too heavy. It just took too long and was too taxing squating every other day 5x5.

I just finished week 3 of Stoppani's Shortcut to Size after doing Stronglifts for a few months. It's an interesting program. It's much more upper body focused and there are a lot of different exercises. Liking it so far. After this is done, I'll probably try to find a problem that is more balanced, but this is doing good things for my noodle arms.

Maybe I'll try that workout. At some point earlier this year I tore my labrum (right hip) and had to stop SL.

Until I can have surgery to get it fixed (and even for a bit afterwards) I'm stuck with upper body only.

Which is frustrating because I was getting pretty decent progress with SL!

culdeus said:

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I think I'm going to move to a LP PPL program. Probably the most popular one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

I'm getting frustrated with 5x5. I feel like I'm spending far too much time dicking around in the gym being exhausted from set to set, and spending an hour and a half to make 50-75 reps.

This one has me in the gym more and is more accessory based. It keeps the core 5x5 lifts and puts them first.

Any thoughts?

---

You should be spending 90 seconds between sets. Should be in and out in 30-40 minutes including stretching

Early on, and without the warm-up sets... Yeah, it's a 30-40 minute workout.

My workout today had 7 sets of warm-ups just for squats.
5x45
5x45
5x95
5x135
3x185
2x225
1x265

All before 5x5 at 290.

Three warm-up sets for OHP:
5x45
5x45
3x85

And then 5x5 at 125.

And five warm-up sets for DL:
5x135
5x185
5x225
3x265
1x285

And then 1x5 at 305.

Plus three sets of pull-ups to failure.

I was moving pretty quick, and not taking much time more than it takes to change out plates between warm-up sets, but as the weight gets heavier, I often need closer to 3 minutes between sets to keep proper form. Tonight's workout easily took over an hour, and I workout at home without any of the interruptions out delays of a public gym.

Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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I think I'm going to move to a LP PPL program. Probably the most popular one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

I'm getting frustrated with 5x5. I feel like I'm spending far too much time dicking around in the gym being exhausted from set to set, and spending an hour and a half to make 50-75 reps.

This one has me in the gym more and is more accessory based. It keeps the core 5x5 lifts and puts them first.

Any thoughts?

---

You should be spending 90 seconds between sets. Should be in and out in 30-40 minutes including stretching

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I can't lift for my 5RM every single set with 90seconds of break. The warmup portion to the squat alone is taking me close to 15 minutes, and haven't even started yet.

When in a rush I'll super set bench and rows and that cuts quite a bit of time down.

I can't imagine if actually following the program 3 months in the workouts not going over an hour

hurricanejake02 said:

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Early on, and without the warm-up sets... Yeah, it's a 30-40 minute workout.

My workout today had 7 sets of warm-ups just for squats.
5x45
5x45
5x95
5x135
3x185
2x225
1x265

All before 5x5 at 290.

Three warm-up sets for OHP:
5x45
5x45
3x85

And then 5x5 at 125.

And five warm-up sets for DL:
5x135
5x185
5x225
3x265
1x285

And then 1x5 at 305.

Plus three sets of pull-ups to failure.

I was moving pretty quick, and not taking much time more than it takes to change out plates between warm-up sets, but as the weight gets heavier, I often need closer to 3 minutes between sets to keep proper form. Tonight's workout easily took over an hour, and I workout at home without any of the interruptions out delays of a public gym.

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Cut out 5 of your warmup sets for squats and all of your warmup sets for OHP and dead lift. If you aren't warmed up enough for dead lift after doing squats, there are other issues there. I get wanting to make sure your form is perfect (especially on dead lift), but that is excessive. Jmo. We all do what works for us

Bocephus said:

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Cut out 5 of your warmup sets for squats and all of your warmup sets for OHP and dead lift. If you aren't warmed up enough for dead lift after doing squats, there are other issues there. I get wanting to make sure your form is perfect (especially on dead lift), but that is excessive. Jmo. We all do what works for us

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I was just pointing out that, if you are following the program recommendations, it is very easy for the workout to take more than 30-40 minutes. What I listed was the warm-up sets from the SL 5x5 app.

Yes, some days that level of warm-up is overkill. Other days it's greatly beneficial.

Regarding rest and volume another $0.02 to throw in the pile.

You can certainly reduce warm up sets on squats and subsequent exercises and that'll help. However, if you are pushing new 5RM each session (which would should be following SL), then 90 sec may not be sufficient rest between sets especially if they are getting heavy. For example, on volume day if I squat 315 x 5 x 5 I'll quickly perform 10-15 with bar, 135 x 5, 225 x 3, 275 x 1 then work sets. As noted once warm from squats you could reduce subsequent warm ups to ~2 jumps in weight then get on with work.

Another consideration would bed adjusting work volume and drop from 5x5 to 5x3 and continue adding weight to the bar; this will also reduce workout time and 3 heavy sets of 5 will still drive strength increases with proper rest and recovery.

Sessions will get longer when the weight gets heavy...the objective of SL or Starting Strength as a novice linear progression program is to introduce the body to a new stress (new 5RM at a prescribed volume of either 5x5 or 5x3) then rest and recover which allows your body to adapt then stress it to a new 5RM 48 hours later. Completing the application of stress is what is key (i.e. finishing all the reps at the new 5RM)...and more recover (even up to 4-5 minutes) may be necessary to allow the work to be accomplished. I learned this the hard way failing reps after 2-3 minutes rest when the weights started to get pretty heavy. A few more minutes rest and then work sets could be completed.

When doing powerlifting, it is normal to rest up to 5 minutes between sets, especially when engaging in heavier weights. If you're doing 5x5 of an exercise and resting 3-5 minutes between sets to allow for recovery, yeah, it's going to take 30 minuter per exercise, or 90 minutes for the workout.

I don't understand the need to do 5+ sets of warm ups. Squats are a full body workout, so after doing 5 sets, I never felt the need to warm up when doing another lift.

To each their own, though.

Because that is what Stronglifts calls for in the program SACR.

It sounds like you may be well beyond the scope of what Stronglifts provides, a highly structured way for lifters with minimal experience, or success in lifting, to have that success at lifting, thru setting PR's just about every time you do a workout, at least for the first 12 weeks.

I'm sure you know that it can be a grind, and personally, knowing that everytime I show up to the gym I'll be attempting, most of the time achieving a PR is a nice little extra incentive to do so.

My experience in the program is that because of the rapid progression in weight, the form is critical to avoid injuries, hence the warmups, and a potential complaint of the program.

As I've been working thru it, I've had a number of people in the gym come up and ask if I was doing it as they recognized the patterns of lifting. Many of them had, gotten what they thought they could out of SL and moved on to other programs, but give a ton of credit to SL for getting them to the point in the mirror, or in the log so that they are where they are today. Those same people to a man, have told me it is an awesome program for someone starting out or trying to break thru roadblocks to working out.

Had my first failure on my second round of SL5x5 last night. OHP, as expected, just expected to fail on it at a lower weight than I actually did.

SQ 310 5x5
OHP 135 5/3/3
DL 325 1x5

I knew going into the OHP that it didn't feel like it was going to go well. The warm-up set of 5 at 95 lbs felt heavy, I didn't feel good about hitting the 135 lb work sets. I was in a hurry to get to birthday dinner for my mom, so I didn't even attempt sets 4 and 5 of the OHP.

Hopefully by the end of the week I'll get 3 plates plus on SQ & DL, and 1 plate on the OHP. I was able to complete 185 on bench and rows last week.

culdeus said:

---

I think I'm going to move to a LP PPL program. Probably the most popular one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

I'm getting frustrated with 5x5. I feel like I'm spending far too much time dicking around in the gym being exhausted from set to set, and spending an hour and a half to make 50-75 reps.

This one has me in the gym more and is more accessory based. It keeps the core 5x5 lifts and puts them first.

Any thoughts?

---

4x9
5x7
7x5
10x3

Smolov if you wanna go at it intensely. Ogus 7-5-3 is less strenuous. Same concepts though. You never want to fail while doing these, but you want to push yourself.

Another OHP failure for turkey day +1.

SQ: 340 5x5
OHP: 140 5/5/5/5/4
DL: 355 1x5

That's my second time to miss rep #25 on the OHP at 140, which would be a new PR - I topped out at 135 on my last SL go round. BP and Row are both at 200, which is within 10 lbs of my old PRs.

Is anyone else still doing this?

I'm 57 workouts (roughly 5 months) in to my second round of SL 5x5 (after a year long break from lifting), and I've passed my previous 5x5 PRs in OHP and Row. I missed passing my DL PR this week, but hopefully I'll make that with my second attempt.

Last completed lifts:
SQ: 350 lbs 5x5
OHP: 140 lbs 5x5
DL: 355 lbs 1x5 (one failed attempt at 365lbs, only got 2 reps)
BP: 200 lbs 5x5
ROW: 205 lbs 5x5

5x5 PRs from first round: (these were achieved between workouts #60 and 70)
SQ: 365 lbs
OHP: 135lbs
DL: 360 lbs (1x5)
BP: 210 lbs
ROW: 200 lbs

Same for me. I have done 17 workouts on my second round of 5x5.

Currently I've done:

SQ 235
OHP 95
DL 235
BP 135
BOR 105

Previous go-round:
SQ 285
OHP 125
DL 265
BP 190
BOR 155

I stopped the first time due to a biceps strain and jut to do more running/cardio over the summer.

I love this program!

I've been doing this, but modified by dropping to 3 sets of 5 earlier than the program called for (to allow for quicker recovery, and to compensate for the fact that I am old and feeling it).

Current completed weights this time around are:

Squat = 285
Bench = 195 (failed at 200 last attempt and still on it)
Row = 165
OHP = 135 (failed at 140 and deloaded 10%)
Deadlift 345 (failed at 355 and still on it)


Not sure why my deadlift is so much higher than my squat, but I've always had that on this program.

Has the switch to 3x5 been good for you. I was really tempted to drop to 3 sets last time around earlier than it called for, too.

Have you still mostly been able to make the prescribed weight increases?

I did 5x5 until 225 on squat and 185 on bench, then shifted to 3x5. This helped a lot with recovery and still being able to lift 3 times per week. I was concerned about getting enough volume at first, but noted that Starting Strength is built on 3x5 instead of 5x5, and also if you do all the warmups as described in the app, there's still quite a lot of lifting to be done in any given workout.

I'm in my 40s with 3 young kids, so recovery time and not spending 2 + hours in the gym each time was helpful. I wish I had done this program in college or early 20s.

Thanks for the reply. I'm 37 and I'm right there with you on wanting to limit the time away from the kids and home. I am still making good progress this round of SL but will drop to 3 sets when I start to plateau.

59 years old, 6', 205#s, semi-active,.

Karate at the dojo 2 to 4 times per week for the last 6 or so years, fairly regular at jogging over and back to the gym mile from the house 2 or three times a week (but stopped the trips to the gym once I started the S5x5 program).

Did cross-fit for about 9 months, really enjoyed it and probably would have stayed at it, but after straining a rotor-cuff (damn evil wheel) and then a groin muscle, had to hang it up. (I don't blame x-fit. Stuff just happens some times)

Next week is week 8 of my 1st time through S5x5. Bought a 4-bar rack, with safety bars (as I'm predominately working out solo), Olympic bar-bell, plates from 2.5# up to 45#s, heavy duty bench.

I work from home, so it's nice to just step away from the desk and walk out to the garage/gym and go through the workout.

Plan to push myself along in this as long as I can. Interested in just what I can do, to what point I can achieve before the body says "enough is enough".

Guess when I do plateau, keep striding along, taking what small, if any, gains that I can.

Wish me luck


And thanks. I didn't know about this program until I read about it here, on TexAgs.

Gig 'em!

What shorts do you all wear? I just haven't fallen in love with UA stuff.

Workout #1 complete!

35 years old, 6'2", 185 lbs. The epitome of skinny fat. Active with three kiddos but haven't worked out steady in five years.

Read this thread last night and hit the gym this evening. Thanks for all the tips everyone!

Squat: 45 lbs
Bench Press: 45 lbs
Barbell Row: 55 lbs

I did this for about 5 months and am about to switch to something different. Basically trying to hit a new PR on three different lifts on the same day was finally wearing my old body out.

I never got my squat or bench as high as I wanted to, but made some real progress on strength.

Zeke1995 said:

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I did this for about 5 months and am about to switch to something different. Basically trying to hit a new PR on three different lifts on the same day was finally wearing my old body out.

I never got my squat or bench as high as I wanted to, but made some real progress on strength.

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Feel the same way about the program. I think it's a good introduction to weights, but after a while, you gotta move on to something different.

Yeah I've switched to more of a 5/3/1 workout these days. Still making progress but really have no goal in mind.

AggieChemE09 said:

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Yeah I've switched to more of a 5/3/1 workout these days. Still making progress but really have no goal in mind.

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That's what I'm sort of struggling with right now - what's my goal. I'm not sure if I want to get my lifts to a certain number or if I just want to look a certain way.

Workout #12 complete! Four weeks in and I'm loving this. Feels more challenging each time but it's not crushing me and discouraging me, at least not yet. Starting to notice a little tone but not substantial changes so far. I'm trying to gain weight along with this (i.e. replace fat with muscle) so I like the fact I can eat more while knowing it's helping create muscle.

Workout #12 (I started with the minimum weights suggested):

Squat: 100 lbs
Overhead Press: 70 lbs
Deadlift: 145 lbs

Gig-Em2003 said:

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Workout #12 complete! Four weeks in and I'm loving this. Feels more challenging each time but it's not crushing me and discouraging me, at least not yet. Starting to notice a little tone but not substantial changes so far. I'm trying to gain weight along with this (i.e. replace fat with muscle) so I like the fact I can eat more while knowing it's helping create muscle.

Workout #12 (I started with the minimum weights suggested):

Squat: 100 lbs
Overhead Press: 70 lbs
Deadlift: 145 lbs

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You can't really replace fat with muscle. If you have fat you want to get rid of, you're probably going to have to do a cut eventually.

I'm struggling with squats. I have scoliosis so my trunk to femur ratio is as bad as it possibly could be.

I'm struggling to not just do good mornings when I get close to 225. I think I'm about to shut down LP for squats and work on repping 185x20. That's about the point where i can still maintain form.

My deadlift are still going up. I am fine if my deadlift is 200 or 250 pounds more than my squat. Its 100 pounds higher and I can leg press for reps 100 pounds more than my squat.

So I've been doing this program since the beginning of this year and my wife is telling me she is already seeing some muscle growth. I've considered doing some running on my off days, like 3-4 miles per run, to speed up the fat loss. My only concern is that I've heard others say cardio is bad for muscle gains. Anybody have experience with this? How do you burn fat the quickest? Thanks.

ol_army12 said:

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So I've been doing this program since the beginning of this year and my wife is telling me she is already seeing some muscle growth. I've considered doing some running on my off days, like 3-4 miles per run, to speed up the fat loss. My only concern is that I've heard others say cardio is bad for muscle gains. Anybody have experience with this? How do you burn fat the quickest? Thanks.

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Burning fat independent of the strength workouts is ALL about heart rate. Lower the HR zone, more fat is burned on a % basis

Keep your target heart rate in zone 2-3 and you will burn 20+% fat to do the workout. The higher the HR = burn more calories, but less fat, so find that blend where you are burning a reasonable amount of calories, but a high fat %.

If you have to sprint to do it, great, but most likely you'll be doing a fast walk/slow jog. I usually do that for 3-4 miles, also good for heart conditioning vs long steady state runs.

http://www.active.com/fitness/articles/how-to-calculate-your-training-heart-rate-zones

http://www.active.com/triathlon/articles/the-myth-of-the-fat-burning-zone

hth

ymmv

ol_army12 said:

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So I've been doing this program since the beginning of this year and my wife is telling me she is already seeing some muscle growth. I've considered doing some running on my off days, like 3-4 miles per run, to speed up the fat loss. My only concern is that I've heard others say cardio is bad for muscle gains. Anybody have experience with this? How do you burn fat the quickest? Thanks.

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Don't. Stick with the 5x5 program. It suggests not doing cardio so don't. Focus on gaining as much strength and increasing your lifts as much as you can. You will be more satisfied with yourself and your accomplishment. Eventually you'll want to switch up and you can do cardio and keep on some other lifting program, but cardio will impede your gains when you are trying to squat heavy 3 times a week and you'll regret derailing your progress.

Ah cool, I didn't think to check Texags for this before. I found this program online. I was doing another beginning program the last two months, made some good fat loss progress, but I wasn't very satisfied with my strength gains.

Anyhow, I officially started on this today, looks like a good way to make gains. The app makes it nice and simple. I'll try to check in here once in a while.