It made a difference to those characters but didn't make a difference to the story. The kids were all of a sudden like let's mount up and ride and Mattson comes running in freaking out with his people like they just found out the kids were trying to kill the deal. Nothing changed with the story.
*** SUCCESSION *** (Season 4)
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Last: 5 mo ago by LawHall88
rynning said:
So explain to me why people think Shiv and Tom colluded on her 'no' vote once she learned Tom would be CEO?
Some folks are hypothesizing that it has to do with Carolina telling Shiv to get rid of Hugo before the vote and then Tom asking Hugo where Carolina was after the vote. The implication being that Shiv told Tom about her convo with Carolina prior to the vote. Seems weak to me but why else highlight those two conversations.
And was this the third or fourth time with Kendall getting oh so close to getting what he wanted and then getting the rug pulled out from under him at the last moment? Same scene of him slinking off to go look out into the distance with the same dumbfounded sad face.
I think that conversation highlighted Tom cleaning house of people who aren't aligned with him.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
It absolutely changed the story, because that's when Mattson learned that Shiv was part of the voting bloc against him. Up until that point, he assumed that he was still able to string her along with the false promise of being the CEO in order to secure her vote.Captain Winky said:
It made a difference to those characters but didn't make a difference to the story. The kids were all of a sudden like let's mount up and ride and Mattson comes running in freaking out with his people like they just found out the kids were trying to kill the deal. Nothing changed with the story.
Tom hustled the **** out of shiv. From locking down every divorce lawyer to ending up as the ceo it feels like the end was shiv just tipping her hat to someone who beat her at her own game
i didn't get to see it until last night, but after just one viewing, i thought it was a great finale.
like others have said, the shiv stuff bothered me initially. but then again, i can't really say that any of it was out of character for her. i was annoyed that she brought up the dead waiter, given that she's known about that for over a year and partnered up with kendall a couple of times since then. but that's exactly what shiv roy would do...make a selfish decision, but then try to rationalize it however she can.
in the end, i still don't really know if she actually thought it all through and figured she was better off getting the gojo money AND having the father of her child be CEO or if she just basically threw another tantrum and didn't want kendall to have what she wanted. but either way fits her character.
like others have said, the shiv stuff bothered me initially. but then again, i can't really say that any of it was out of character for her. i was annoyed that she brought up the dead waiter, given that she's known about that for over a year and partnered up with kendall a couple of times since then. but that's exactly what shiv roy would do...make a selfish decision, but then try to rationalize it however she can.
in the end, i still don't really know if she actually thought it all through and figured she was better off getting the gojo money AND having the father of her child be CEO or if she just basically threw another tantrum and didn't want kendall to have what she wanted. but either way fits her character.
i've known for a while that this show wasn't likely to have a "happy" ending for the roy kids and we definitely got that. i don't think any of Kendall, Roman or Shiv is going to be happy or satisfied going forward, despite shiv probably thinking she "won".
but in the end, the one that stings the most is connor. he's an idiot elitist who has had a few not-great moments over the years (he was pretty awful to people during the gala in season 1), but he wasn't in the same class as the other three in terms of being awful human beings. i'd have preferred they just let us think he and willa might live happily ever after
but in the end, the one that stings the most is connor. he's an idiot elitist who has had a few not-great moments over the years (he was pretty awful to people during the gala in season 1), but he wasn't in the same class as the other three in terms of being awful human beings. i'd have preferred they just let us think he and willa might live happily ever after
I mean I think no matter what happens Connor will be happy in his own way. He's happy being filthy rich. The other guys wanted respect Connor doesn't necessarily need that.
I'll echo what many other have said in there. I thought the finale was great. The little fight near the board room was a perfect way to show that none of the kids are fit to lead the company. I'm happy the deal went through just as Logan wanted. The only way I would have wanted one of the kids and probably Kendall to get CEO was if Logan never wanted to be bought out and it was a hostile takeover but since it is what Logan wanted, I'm ok with it.
I also kind of liked that we never found out the real results of the election. It served its purpose and went away. It was used to advance the plot this season was never really about the election.
I thought it was funny when Greg put a sticker on that bell. Nice callback from first season when he bumps into it.
I thought every character stayed true to who they were in the end. I do wish we could have seen a conversation with the kids and Tom after he was named CEO. Maybe offer one of them to be head of cruises or something.
I also kind of liked that we never found out the real results of the election. It served its purpose and went away. It was used to advance the plot this season was never really about the election.
I thought it was funny when Greg put a sticker on that bell. Nice callback from first season when he bumps into it.
I thought every character stayed true to who they were in the end. I do wish we could have seen a conversation with the kids and Tom after he was named CEO. Maybe offer one of them to be head of cruises or something.
Liked the episode overall. Tom coming out ahead was a really good decision and very poetic. Some phenomenal acting by all the kids. The boardroom fight was so freaking tense. That's going on a billboard of "this is what happens when great writing meets great acting." When Roman tells Kendall his kids aren't "the bloodline"....that was good stuff.
I also enjoyed the overly long kitchen scene. Wish we got some more of that but I understand that's the kinda rope you only get during final seasons.
Like others, I didn't fully buy Shiv's last second 180. You can find reasons to explain her motivations but it still felt like the writers went "What's the most TV thing we could do here?" 1 of the few times I thought Jesse Armstrong added drama for drama's sake.
I also still feel like it ended with a ton of meat on the bone. So many subplots were just abandoned, cut short, or just had no impact whatsoever.
I also enjoyed the overly long kitchen scene. Wish we got some more of that but I understand that's the kinda rope you only get during final seasons.
Like others, I didn't fully buy Shiv's last second 180. You can find reasons to explain her motivations but it still felt like the writers went "What's the most TV thing we could do here?" 1 of the few times I thought Jesse Armstrong added drama for drama's sake.
I also still feel like it ended with a ton of meat on the bone. So many subplots were just abandoned, cut short, or just had no impact whatsoever.
- We never got a resolution on the Kerry situation. In episdoe 2(?) or 3(?) she had a breakdown at the penthouse and was promised by Roman that he'd help her out and that whole thing was never brought up again.
- So the PGM acquisition is....done? What happened to Nan Pierce? This subplot seemed the most pointless in hindsight now.
- What was in Tom's file that he asked Greg to delete after logan died? I'm assuming Greg has a copy of whatever Tom was scared of, so why didn't that come up? I guess that was just for the laughs?
- The Mencken of it all. So much of the show hinged on getting Mencken elected that it was kind of jarring to have literally no impact on anything. And it 100% matters if Mencken wins or not because Tom's professional future hinges on it. Remember Tom was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb for making the call at ATN to declare Mencken the winner that I was under the assumption he would be fired immediately if that didn't pan out (hell, maybe even if it did). How is he able to be CEO? Like logically, he should be radioactive.
- Who did Logan actually want to be CEO? I know it doesn't necessarily matter, but them discovering the Will in the vault was something I thought would have more consequential weight than it did. In the end the answer was probably what Roman said "he wanted all of us and none of us."
The greatest of all callbacksTCTTS said:It's easy to say that everybody lost, but when the dust settles, Roman will be the most fine. Kendall had it right: he didn't want it; he only wanted it because his father set that expectation in his abuse cycle. That smile is the tell. He is free (and filthy rich). #Succession pic.twitter.com/JzZBF2jU57
— Brandon Lewis (@blewis1103) May 29, 2023
I believe the files Tom wanted Greg to delete were related to the work behind the debt coverups from cruises, right?
-Ben There/R.C.
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I think your point about Greg having a copy of the files explains a lot of how Tom treats him at the end. I had forgotten about that. In some way, Greg has the upper hand on Tom.
This is what I was wondering last night. Mattson altered the deal after Logan died, throwing in ATN and raising the share price. Do you think Logan would've gone along with that? Before he died, he seemed dead set on keeping ATN. I really do wonder if Logan would've ultimately sold the entire thing if the price was right.MrPlow2010 said:
I'm happy the deal went through just as Logan wanted. The only way I would have wanted one of the kids and probably Kendall to get CEO was if Logan never wanted to be bought out and it was a hostile takeover but since it is what Logan wanted, I'm ok with it.
I think that was different. Greg definitely has those files as well but this seemed different. I was under the assumption it was related to Shiv and the divorce? Not sure though at it's all speculative.Ghost of Bisbee said:
I believe the files Tom wanted Greg to delete were related to the work behind the debt coverups from cruises, right?
For sure. I was actually expecting Greg to reveal his blackmail at the end, but he didn't. From a writing standpoint, I think it would have been fun to make Greg the Ebba to Tom's Mattson (basically someone he hates but can't get rid of due to mutually assured destruction).Willy Wonka said:
I think your point about Greg having a copy of the files explains a lot of how Tom treats him at the end. I had forgotten about that. In some way, Greg has the upper hand on Tom.
Shiv is now sucking the biggest d in the room.
I think she realized that with Kendall at the helm, she'll always be minimized. In Kendall's eyes, she's one step above Connor (Kendall says he's the eldest son when it's actually Connor). Kendall will always be chasing Logan's shadow and he'll take everyone down as long as people feel that he's as good as his father.
I think she realized that with Kendall at the helm, she'll always be minimized. In Kendall's eyes, she's one step above Connor (Kendall says he's the eldest son when it's actually Connor). Kendall will always be chasing Logan's shadow and he'll take everyone down as long as people feel that he's as good as his father.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
My headcanon is he went straight from getting beat up to the airport with just the clothes on his back and headed to his mom, and she sent someone him to pick him up whatever clothes they could find nearby.
Seems not only plausible but probably what they were thinking. I dig it.
So it was Greg that told Hugo Roman was at his mom's. No matter who won Greg was gonna win too. Hugo not so much.
Variety has Culkin and Snook as frontrunners for Best Actor and Actress.
Have to admit I'm a bit conflicted since neither Odenkirk or Culkin have ever won, and they both deserve it.
Have to admit I'm a bit conflicted since neither Odenkirk or Culkin have ever won, and they both deserve it.
Yea, Roman was my favorite, would love to see him win
But Bob Odenkirk should have won for BCS without any doubts
But Bob Odenkirk should have won for BCS without any doubts
-Ben There/R.C.
Odenkirk should've won last year over the guy from Squid Game without a doubt.
to help cope with the end of succession, i started rewatching...
in S2, E1, Roman is pitching to Logan how to beat Sandy/Stewey's bear hug and he tells him to "scare them off...you know, Scooby Doo it" and logan looks less than impressed by the strategy
funny call back in S4 when Matsson makes fun of Roman and Kendall for trying to Scooby Doo him
in S2, E1, Roman is pitching to Logan how to beat Sandy/Stewey's bear hug and he tells him to "scare them off...you know, Scooby Doo it" and logan looks less than impressed by the strategy
funny call back in S4 when Matsson makes fun of Roman and Kendall for trying to Scooby Doo him
Way too feminist of a take IMO
Watched last 3rd of final episode again.
Do you think shiv would have voted differently if the wasn't the last/deciding vote?
I feel like if she would have been somewhere in the middle of the yes-es she would have gone with it.
Do you think shiv would have voted differently if the wasn't the last/deciding vote?
I feel like if she would have been somewhere in the middle of the yes-es she would have gone with it.
I think if she wasn't last it was a yes, if it was Roman last it would have been no too. Kendall should have let them vote first, but like always he had to be first, and in return F#$Ed himself.
.@Succession is over 😕 Say It Ain’t So! https://t.co/VGz8wixCTI
— weezer (@Weezer) May 29, 2023
Reminder that Roman still owns a soccer club.
thanks a lot...now i need a succession version of ted lasso focused on rupert mannion's rise to powerBrian Earl Spilner said:
Reminder that Roman still owns a soccer club.
Finally caught the finale last night.
Thought it was a solid ending. Left me fulfilled (mostly because I as Team Tom), but certainly not without it's flaws. I felt the emotions of the characters unfortunately got fast-tracked in the last 3-4 episodes pushing some of them to almost caricatures. I can/could see all of the characters reaching these points, but the shift and and amplification was just too quick. While we knew Roman was going to struggle with his dad dying, for a character that for the most part never received any real love from his Dad he reverted to useless, sniveling brat in a matter of one or two episodes. I know I'm somewhat alone in this, but way too much credit being given to his performance this season. Tom was 3x the character.
Kendall's "I want it, please give it to me" was also a little too "60mph -> 0mph" as far as his character's business poise. I get it, but I felt it was just too quick.
I didn't mind Shiv's vote change at the end. I think it perfectly encapsulated the sibling rivalry. This is right, this makes sense, this is best for the family... but dammit I can't stand to see him win so I'm going to burn it down.
Way too much being made of the bodyguard at the end. Yes it represents Kendall's past failures, but no it doesn't mean "he's trapped and can't even kill himself now!" as some of the twitter-verse seems to think. He can still fire the guy, he isn't shackled to him.
I think most of us saw Tom as the king as we headed into the season so it was no huge surprise, but I think they handled it very well. I think his storyline was by far the best, and he was the most deserving -- even if that means he's a piece of ***** The power shift scene at the end where suddenly Shiv is Tom's wife and not the other way around was perfectly done.
All in all, not without it's significant flaws but one of the better series start to finish I've ever watched. Not quite Breaking Bad simply because of the lack of any real tension, but that is simply due to the nature of the show.
Thought it was a solid ending. Left me fulfilled (mostly because I as Team Tom), but certainly not without it's flaws. I felt the emotions of the characters unfortunately got fast-tracked in the last 3-4 episodes pushing some of them to almost caricatures. I can/could see all of the characters reaching these points, but the shift and and amplification was just too quick. While we knew Roman was going to struggle with his dad dying, for a character that for the most part never received any real love from his Dad he reverted to useless, sniveling brat in a matter of one or two episodes. I know I'm somewhat alone in this, but way too much credit being given to his performance this season. Tom was 3x the character.
Kendall's "I want it, please give it to me" was also a little too "60mph -> 0mph" as far as his character's business poise. I get it, but I felt it was just too quick.
I didn't mind Shiv's vote change at the end. I think it perfectly encapsulated the sibling rivalry. This is right, this makes sense, this is best for the family... but dammit I can't stand to see him win so I'm going to burn it down.
Way too much being made of the bodyguard at the end. Yes it represents Kendall's past failures, but no it doesn't mean "he's trapped and can't even kill himself now!" as some of the twitter-verse seems to think. He can still fire the guy, he isn't shackled to him.
I think most of us saw Tom as the king as we headed into the season so it was no huge surprise, but I think they handled it very well. I think his storyline was by far the best, and he was the most deserving -- even if that means he's a piece of ***** The power shift scene at the end where suddenly Shiv is Tom's wife and not the other way around was perfectly done.
All in all, not without it's significant flaws but one of the better series start to finish I've ever watched. Not quite Breaking Bad simply because of the lack of any real tension, but that is simply due to the nature of the show.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Reminder that Roman still owns a soccer club.
Man, I forgot about that. So great
I finally watched it last night, and I agree with all of this.Proposition Joe said:
Finally caught the finale last night.
Thought it was a solid ending. Left me fulfilled (mostly because I as Team Tom), but certainly not without it's flaws. I felt the emotions of the characters unfortunately got fast-tracked in the last 3-4 episodes pushing some of them to almost caricatures. I can/could see all of the characters reaching these points, but the shift and and amplification was just too quick. While we knew Roman was going to struggle with his dad dying, for a character that for the most part never received any real love from his Dad he reverted to useless, sniveling brat in a matter of one or two episodes. I know I'm somewhat alone in this, but way too much credit being given to his performance this season. Tom was 3x the character.
Kendall's "I want it, please give it to me" was also a little too "60mph -> 0mph" as far as his character's business poise. I get it, but I felt it was just too quick.
I didn't mind Shiv's vote change at the end. I think it perfectly encapsulated the sibling rivalry. This is right, this makes sense, this is best for the family... but dammit I can't stand to see him win so I'm going to burn it down.
Way too much being made of the bodyguard at the end. Yes it represents Kendall's past failures, but no it doesn't mean "he's trapped and can't even kill himself now!" as some of the twitter-verse seems to think. He can still fire the guy, he isn't shackled to him.
I think most of us saw Tom as the king as we headed into the season so it was no huge surprise, but I think they handled it very well. I think his storyline was by far the best, and he was the most deserving -- even if that means he's a piece of ***** The power shift scene at the end where suddenly Shiv is Tom's wife and not the other way around was perfectly done.
All in all, not without it's significant flaws but one of the better series start to finish I've ever watched. Not quite Breaking Bad simply because of the lack of any real tension, but that is simply due to the nature of the show.
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