Yeah, the whole 10 episodes/10 days thing fell apart a while back. I'd say it's closer to/just under two weeks now.
*** SUCCESSION *** (Season 4)
160,610 Views |
1599 Replies |
Last: 4 mo ago by LawHall88
Talking board seats, there's always the potential that Sandy/Stewy screw them over on a vote.
I guess there's also the potential that their mother or Ewan screws them over. But I feel like they wouldn't go back to the well on their mother, and it felt like Ewan had his final moment of the series at the funeral.
I guess there's also the potential that their mother or Ewan screws them over. But I feel like they wouldn't go back to the well on their mother, and it felt like Ewan had his final moment of the series at the funeral.
Oh it's certainly on the table for everything to go sideways, including the Mencken presidency. If they can't wrap up the show neatly then I'm not opposed to chaos. That being said I have a little too much faith in the writers of this show for it to end in chaos.bonfarr said:
Are we sure Mencken is going to be the President?
I can see the finale having the lawsuits and recounts and absentee ballots changing the outcome of the election and Mencken brokering an agreement falls through.
The whole premise of the presidency being involved in this show ties to showing that people like Logan have the influence to make these decisions, and Mencken was his guy. I think because of that we're going to get confirmation of a Mencken presidency. I also think because this show has a good amount of satire they're not going to swing it the other way, this show is created by a Brit and a lot of it makes fun of America/Americans, which I've been fine with because this show is so fun.
Regardless of the election outcome the final episode is about what child, if any of them, succeeds Logan. I foresee a lot of infighting between them and it being all for naught. Each of them can easily sink the others involved. I'm optimistic it's a really fun last episode.
I will say that oddly enough I'm not sad this show is ending. It's been so well done that I'm satisfied with it. Plenty of other shows left me and I was craving for more, some went on longer than they should have, Succession has been just right for me.
In every meeting I've had this week it dawns on more people that the Succession finale is totally wrecking their holiday weekend
— kateyrich (@kateyrich) May 24, 2023
Ya it's kinda bumming me out that the showrunner never actually planned for this to be the final season. Idk how they're going to conclude this in a satisfying way (maybe they never could). But there's just SO MUCH meat left on the bone, it's gonna feel so abrupt when the credits roll.
Can you share a link on the show runner not wanting this season to be the last?
I didn't say the showrunner didn't want it to end. I said he never intended this to be the finale when he initially wrote it. There's stories out there about how he was hinting at future seasons during table reads. HBO didn't make him end the series; Jesse Armstrong came to that decision on his own. But it was after he wrote it out from my understanding.Aggie09Derek said:
Can you share a link on the show runner not wanting this season to be the last?
Ahh gotcha
M.C. Swag said:
Ya it's kinda bumming me out that the showrunner never actually planned for this to be the final season. Idk how they're going to conclude this in a satisfying way (maybe they never could). But there's just SO MUCH meat left on the bone, it's gonna feel so abrupt when the credits roll.
I've done a complete 180 this season and could not disagree with this more. Anything after this arc would feel like wheel spinning. There's just no way a fifth season would have come anywhere close to topping this. Could these characters' stories have continued? Sure. But it would feel like a lesser, more generic show, and Armstrong instinctively recognized that. Instead, he gets to go out on top. To the point where I've heard so many people say this season has firmly put Succession up there with The Sopranos and Breaking Bad. You do another season and risk losing such a rare achievement.
Wrong thread
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
You think there ISN'T more compelling stuff to explore with these characters? Ya we definitely disagree then.TCTTS said:M.C. Swag said:
Ya it's kinda bumming me out that the showrunner never actually planned for this to be the final season. Idk how they're going to conclude this in a satisfying way (maybe they never could). But there's just SO MUCH meat left on the bone, it's gonna feel so abrupt when the credits roll.
I've done a complete 180 this season and could not disagree with this more. Anything after this arc would feel like wheel spinning. There's just no way a fifth season would have come anywhere close to topping this. Could these characters' stories have continued? Sure. But it would feel like a lesser, more generic show, and Armstrong instinctively recognized that. Instead, he gets to go out on top. To the point where I've heard so many people say this season has firmly put Succession up there with The Sopranos and Breaking Bad. You do another season and risk losing such a rare achievement.
I feel like now that Logan is gone, there's oxygen in the room to play with these other insane people. Like, nothing about this season feels like we're reaching the end of anything. In fact, it feels like we're just getting started here. ATN just rigged an election for crying out loud lol. That's a whole season's worth of drama right there. Shiv is about to give birth to Tom's child and presumably takeover as CEO of her father's former company...we're just not gonna see any of that?
Again, there *could* continue to be a show about all of that, sure. But it's called "Succession," and the question posed in the pilot to that end is about to be answered. A four-season exploration of that central, driving premise is about to be fulfilled. In that regard, Kendall's arc is done. Whoever he becomes in the finale, that's who he'll likely be for the rest of his life. He will have potentially shunned his entire family for his seat on the throne, to the point where I seriously doubt there will be any room for reconciliation. There's no coming back for Roman either, after his very public meltdown at the funeral, and same for Shiv, whose circumstances will forever be changed by her baby. Again, could the show explore those continued stories? Yes. But it would be a very different show, IMO, one that, again, I personally believe couldn't come close to touching the highs of this season.
TCTTS said:
Again, there *could* continue be a show about all of that, sure. But it's called "Succession," and the question posed in the pilot to that end is about to be answered. A four-season exploration of that central, driving premise is about to be fulfilled. In that regard, Kendall's arc is done. Whoever he becomes in the finale, that's who he'll likely be for the rest of his life. He will have potentially shunned his entire family for his seat on the throne, to the point where I seriously doubt there will be any room for reconciliation. There's no coming back for Roman either, after his very public meltdown at the funeral, and same for Shiv, whose circumstances will forever be changed by her baby. Again, could the show explore those continued stories? Yes. But it would be a very different show, IMO, one that, again, I personally believe couldn't come close to touching the highs of this season.
Agree to disagree. We've already seen Kendall bloom then crumble and now seemingly re-discover himself. It's just conjecture to assume THIS is the real Kendall when we've seen 6 different versions already. Like, how can you definitively say that any of these characters are now cast forever in these molds when over and over the show has shown you that nothing lasts?
And more importantly, my biggest concern isn't that the show is ending after 4 seasons...it's that it was never the intent to end after 4 seasons. Missing that intent is going to have ramifications on the tone of this finale. I don't think it's going to end on a cliffhanger or anything like that, but like...how can this be the end when we're still reaching new depths with these characters?
And more importantly, my biggest concern isn't that the show is ending after 4 seasons...it's that it was never the intent to end after 4 seasons. Missing that intent is going to have ramifications on the tone of this finale. I don't think it's going to end on a cliffhanger or anything like that, but like...how can this be the end when we're still reaching new depths with these characters?
And if fulfilling the title card is what matters in defining a stories conclusion, then Breaking Bad would have ended the second Walt put on the black hat and called himself Heisenberg.Quote:
But it's called "Succession," and the question posed in the pilot to that end is about to be answered.
M.C. Swag said:
Agree to disagree. We've already seen Kendall bloom then crumble and now seemingly re-discover himself. It's just conjecture to assume THIS is the real Kendall when we've seen 6 different versions already. Like, how can you definitively say that any of these characters are now cast forever in these molds when over and over the show has shown you that nothing lasts?
Kendall's "bloom and crumble and rediscovering himself" has all been in PURSUIT of the throne. In fact, it's that very pursuit for four seasons that CAUSED the blooms and the crumbles. Now, he will have finally achieved his goal. He'll be the dog who caught the car. He'll have finally become Darth Vader. And sure, Vader eventually changed, but it wasn't until his literal dying breath.
And more importantly, my biggest concern isn't that the show is ending after 4 seasons...it's that it was never the intent to end after 4 seasons. Missing that intent is going to have ramifications on the tone of this finale. I don't think it's going to end on a cliffhanger or anything like that, but like...how can this be the end when we're still reaching new depths with these characters?
There was never ANY intent or set plan in terms of number of seasons. It's not like Armstrong went back on his word. He's said from the beginning that he didn't know how many seasons the show would last. He only realized it was the end once he finally got there.And if fulfilling the title card is what matters in defining a stories conclusion, then Breaking Bad would have ended the second Walt put on the black hat and called himself Heisenberg.Quote:
But it's called "Succession," and the question posed in the pilot to that end is about to be answered.
Except in that pilot a very clear timeline was given as to how long Walter White had to live. We always knew the show would end in his death, we just didn't know which would kill him first, the cancer or the drug game.
veryfuller
Joined:
Jul 2, 2018
Posts:
738
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
AG
The interviews I have seen about this are clear the writers intended to end the show from the beginning of writing this season. They talked about it while they were breaking the story for season 4, that they could end it or that they could keep pushing things for 8 seasons or whatever, and they decided, before starting a single script for season 4, to make it the last season.
Now -- they didn't announce that to anyone. They informed the cast before the table read of the last episode, and that may or may not have been a good decision. And HBO didn't announce it was the end until right before they started promoting the new season. BUT, from everything I have read, the writers and creator absolutely had a plan to land the plane the whole season.
Now -- they didn't announce that to anyone. They informed the cast before the table read of the last episode, and that may or may not have been a good decision. And HBO didn't announce it was the end until right before they started promoting the new season. BUT, from everything I have read, the writers and creator absolutely had a plan to land the plane the whole season.
Interesting because I heard/read/remembered that Armstrong developed the season without any initial conviction as to whether or not to end it and eventually settled on it after discussing it with the writer's room much much later. In one podcast I listened to, someone had even mentioned the season development had gotten as far as the physical table reads before anything was officially decided.veryfuller said:
The interviews I have seen about this are clear the writers intended to end the show from the beginning of writing this season. They talked about it while they were breaking the story for season 4, that they could end it or that they could keep pushing things for 8 seasons or whatever, and they decided, before starting a single script for season 4, to make it the last season.
Now -- they didn't announce that to anyone. They informed the cast before the table read of the last episode, and that may or may not have been a good decision. And HBO didn't announce it was the end until right before they started promoting the new season. BUT, from everything I have read, the writers and creator absolutely had a plan to land the plane the whole season.
I'll add one caveat to that. From what I understand, they *also* gave themselves the opportunity to either be convinced or discover that the show could continue after season four, while writing/filming. They left the door cracked open, which is why they didn't tell anyone. But once they arrived at the homestretch, they decided that they had, in fact, made the right decision to end it. Armstrong even recently said that, during the writing process, he expected someone on the writing staff to talk him out of ending the show, but it that it was unanimous that they should end it.
From PAGE 1 of the thread.YNWA_AG said:The end of “Succession” is upon us. In a new interview, Jesse Armstrong, the show’s creator, explains his decision to conclude the drama.https://t.co/DnrjufaqoS
— The New Yorker (@NewYorker) February 24, 2023
Quote:
Before we talk about why this is the last season of "Succession," why have you decided to talk about the fact that this is going to be the last season of "Succession"?
There are a few different aspects. One, we could have said it as soon as I sort of decided, almost when we were writing it, which I think would be weird and perverse. We could have said it at the end of the season. I quite like that idea, creatively, because then the audience is just able to enjoy everything as it comes, without trying to figure things out, or perceiving things in a certain way once they know it's the final season. But, also, the countervailing thought is that we don't hide the ball very much on the show. I feel a responsibility to the viewership, and I personally wouldn't like the feeling of, "Oh, that's it, guys. That was the end." I wouldn't like that in a show. I think I would like to know it is coming to an end.
And, also, there's a bunch of prosaic things, like it might be weird for me and the cast as we do interviews. It's pretty definitively the end, so then it just might be uncomfortable having to sort of dissemble like a politician for ages about it. Hopefully, the show is against bull****, and I wouldn't like to be bull****ting anyone when I was talking about it.
What made you decide that it was time to end "Succession"?
It's been a bit tortured, and I felt unexpectedly nervous about talking to you, because it's all theoretical until this point, and I have tried to keep it theoretical for a whole number of reasons. Who knows about the psychological reasons, but the creative ones were that it felt really useful to not make the final, final decision for ages. You know, there's a promise in the title of "Succession." I've never thought this could go on forever. The end has always been kind of present in my mind. From Season 2, I've been trying to think: Is it the next one, or the one after that, or is it the one after that?
I got together with a few of my fellow-writers before we started the writing of Season 4, in about November, December, 2021, and I sort of said, "Look, I think this maybe should be it. But what do you think?" And we played out various scenarios: We could do a couple of short seasons, or two more seasons. Or we could go on for ages and turn the show into something rather different, and be a more rangy, freewheeling kind of fun show, where there would be good weeks and bad weeks. Or we could do something a bit more muscular and complete, and go out sort of strong. And that was definitely always my preference. I went into the writing room for Season 4 sort of saying, "I think this is what we're doing, but let's also keep it open." I like operating the writing room by coming in with a sort of proposition, and then being genuinely open to alternative ways of going. And the decision to end solidified through the writing and even when we started filming: I said to the cast, "I'm not a hundred per cent sure, but I think this is it." Because I didn't want to bull**** them, either.
So even when you're shooting there's a possibility in your mind that you could keep it going to Season 5?
I don't know whether that's a psychological trick on myself, to stop being sad about stopping doing something which I really, really enjoyed. Or it's a creative trick to not make us get lachrymose or sentimental, or to kind of do it differently than we have done before. And a certain percentage of not definitively saying early on that this was the last season was also a feeling that sometimes on the show, previously, we've discovered plot avenues, character dynamics, which have demanded we follow them. And therefore not wanting to definitively close off the possibility of that happening this seasonat least until it got weird to not say, O.K., I think this really is it.
Conversely, by your logic, every show should continue until every main character is dead?M.C. Swag said:
Agree to disagree. We've already seen Kendall bloom then crumble and now seemingly re-discover himself. It's just conjecture to assume THIS is the real Kendall when we've seen 6 different versions already. Like, how can you definitively say that any of these characters are now cast forever in these molds when over and over the show has shown you that nothing lasts?
And more importantly, my biggest concern isn't that the show is ending after 4 seasons...it's that it was never the intent to end after 4 seasons. Missing that intent is going to have ramifications on the tone of this finale. I don't think it's going to end on a cliffhanger or anything like that, but like...how can this be the end when we're still reaching new depths with these characters?And if fulfilling the title card is what matters in defining a stories conclusion, then Breaking Bad would have ended the second Walt put on the black hat and called himself Heisenberg.Quote:
But it's called "Succession," and the question posed in the pilot to that end is about to be answered.
I never pre-supposed when a show should end. I was simply refuting the role a title card should play in any conclusion of a story.
By the time someone feels like it's time for the show to end, the means it's gone on too long already.
Has anyone talked about how absolutely awful Shiv's speech was? Or do I just dislike her so much now that it was good and there's nothing she can say to make me like her?
Bowen Yang says Jeremy Strong once walked into the "Nora From Queens" production office and asked, "Excuse me, do you know where the bathroom is?"
— Variety (@Variety) May 25, 2023
A PA later revealed that Strong had a scene in which he had to ask someone the location of the restroom. https://t.co/E94sIv2oEs
This is pretty ridiculous. Gotta love Kendall.
lawrenceheads, it's almost time for him to swoop in and win pic.twitter.com/FybAfJ5WvS
— Irishman Carl (@bornposting) May 24, 2023
It was great in the sense that it she put words together that should have hit the mark but didn't.CC09LawAg said:
Has anyone talked about how absolutely awful Shiv's speech was? Or do I just dislike her so much now that it was good and there's nothing she can say to make me like her?
I find it funny that Kendall is pretty bad with small talk and one-on-ones but can always knockout a speech. He is clearly ascending…right now.
I feel like Jeremy Strong is currently on another planet compared to his peers. They've all been good this season, but he continues to stick out (to me).
I know it works great for the storyline but does anyone actually believe a BOD or shareholders would agree to a CEO that has never held a high level corporate exec position in the company? Shiv has experience in politics and has connections there but managing a multinational corporation would be completely out of her league IMO.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
Exactly. Especially since there would be dozens of far more suitable candidates both internally and externally. It's a bit of a stretch.bonfarr said:
I know it works great for the storyline but does anyone actually believe a BOD or shareholders would agree to a CEO that has never held a high level corporate exec position in the company? Shiv has experience in politics and has connections there but managing a multinational corporation would be completely out of her league IMO.
Also, we don't really know Kendall's background at the company. And Roman hasn't done anything of import at least on screen, other than blowing up a rocket.
I feel like they've done a pretty good job showing that Shiv is the only person who believes she's qualified and that other characters are using her irrational self confidence to manipulate her.bonfarr said:
I know it works great for the storyline but does anyone actually believe a BOD or shareholders would agree to a CEO that has never held a high level corporate exec position in the company? Shiv has experience in politics and has connections there but managing a multinational corporation would be completely out of her league IMO.
bonfarr said:
I know it works great for the storyline but does anyone actually believe a BOD or shareholders would agree to a CEO that has never held a high level corporate exec position in the company? Shiv has experience in politics and has connections there but managing a multinational corporation would be completely out of her league IMO.
This is why I mentioned Connor a couple of pages back that folks blew off pretty quickly. I think that Frank, Karl, and Gerri all believe that they could run things just as good as anyone of those kids. The last thing they want is Shiv, Ken, or Roman thinking they can be Logan. They have shown that Mattson is willing to go directly to them, Stewy's got zero problem going around the family.
That's why I think Connor may actually be it. It would be a figurehead for Mattson, it would mock Mencken and the whole USA thinking that we've gotta have an American CEO. You've got Ken going to Frank, "hey, are you with me?" It would be a big gotcha to Kendall, "the real question is are you with us?"
Sure Connor doesn't want it but he didn't want an ambassadorship either but then warmed up to it. It would allow the producers and creators to poke the eye of corporate America, showing that there's nothing special about CEO's, it's the people behind them.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
bonfarr said:
I know it works great for the storyline but does anyone actually believe a BOD or shareholders would agree to a CEO that has never held a high level corporate exec position in the company? Shiv has experience in politics and has connections there but managing a multinational corporation would be completely out of her league IMO.
EclipseAg said:Exactly. Especially since there would be dozens of far more suitable candidates both internally and externally. It's a bit of a stretch.bonfarr said:
I know it works great for the storyline but does anyone actually believe a BOD or shareholders would agree to a CEO that has never held a high level corporate exec position in the company? Shiv has experience in politics and has connections there but managing a multinational corporation would be completely out of her league IMO.
Also, we don't really know Kendall's background at the company. And Roman hasn't done anything of import at least on screen, other than blowing up a rocket.
We know from Season 1 that Kendall was essentially the COO of the company. He was directly managing a big acquisition and he also was previously the Director of the Entertainment Division IIRC .
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
Featured Stories
See All
A&M at risk of undercut when undertaking trip to underrated Auburn
by Olin Buchanan
48:02
1d ago
4.2k
5:59
1d ago
2.3k
16:53
1d ago
3.2k