I thought Tom's reaction was perfect. If this was Tom from a few years ago he would have absolutely been fawning all over her. But he has now learned that the Roys put themselves first in everything and anything they say is an attempt to gain leverage or a favor. Shiv has had numerous opportunities to tell him but hasnt. So for it to happen in that moment a day after a huge fight when Shiv potentially needs another favor from Tom, he has no reason to trust anything she says even though its true that she is pregnant.jackie childs said:
this show is so awesome...i can't believe we're almost done with it.
i think any other show would have made a huge scene out of shiv telling tom she's pregnant. but from everything we've seen from shiv, she would 100% use that news to try and 'win' an argument with tom because that's what she does every time something isn't going her way. i loved that rather than fawn all over her and apologize, tom just flat out asks if she's lying about that too.
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I would have been thinking the same as Tom. The intent there was to manipulate and hurt him with the news, true or not. So I'd have questioned it too
Considering she didn't share that news when they were in their recent "happy" period, Tom would have to be extra suspect on the news.
Add in the fact the only reason she apologized was to try and goad him into apologizing to her. She had zero intentions of being nice.
BowSowy said:
Genuinely shocked that Proposition Joe has an opinion that goes counter to the majority.
This is far from the first time this show has pulled a dormant plot and made it somewhat pivotal to the current plot. I prefer it the way they've done it, because sprinkling in scenes with Ken playing dad would feel out of place with the way this story goes. But I don't think it's lazy writing to have his children's safety/well-being play an important role in his internal struggle in this situation.
Eh, I'm overly critical and have said as much. I also still praised it as an incredible show with great writing. It's about the only show I consider "appointment TV". That doesn't mean I won't point out where I think it's become a bit rushed (eg. Hugo being overheard about his daughter insider trading at the start of an episode and then that event being used as leverage for a significant move at the end of the episode. Ditto "let us introduce Ebba and then moments later let you know that she has game-changing dirt on GoJo and soon thereafter offers it up).
Anyone else love that Greg didn't succumb to Shiv's threats? She ignored his offer to table the info if she made it worthwhile to him at Gojo but she told him to eff off. It is going to be interesting to see where Greg ends up in the end.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
To me this was maybe my least favorite episode of the entire series. It perfectly summed up the weakness of this show in that every one is so damn unlikeable. I spent most of what I watched fantasizing about Roman getting his head bashed in with a hammer. Such scum. He usually is entertaining talking trash but tonight was outright evil. I ended up fast forwarding and barely watching half the episode.
this is what makes the show great, imo. from the very beginning we're supposed to dislike the characters, but over four seasons we come to dislike them in new and unexpected ways.Jim01 said:
To me this was maybe my least favorite episode of the entire series. It perfectly summed up the weakness of this show in that every one is so damn unlikeable.
Personally I am rooting for this to end with a private jet crash with all named characters aboard.Jim01 said:
It perfectly summed up the weakness of this show in that every one is so damn unlikeable. I spent most of what I watched fantasizing about Roman getting his head bashed in with a hammer.
I'd like to see one or two of the characters end up on top. Don't really have a preference since they are all unlikeable in their own ways but just like in real life sometimes that type of people do end up winning.
one piece of writing this episode i thought was well done was how they set up a contested election in a way that felt "ripped from the headlines", jesse even said they brought in political consultants to craft the wisconsin subplot and it showed.
in my mind i contrasted it to the election episode from house of cards season five, where frank manufactures a terrorist threat against polling stations in tennessee and ohio to get them suspend their elections. that subplot always felt contrived and unrealistic, but this succession episode delivered a much more believable scenario. all of roman's jokes about the "false flag antifa firebombing" and ravenhead going live to laugh about how "the fire was biased against democrats" made me think yeah, that's exactly how that would go down if it really happened.
in my mind i contrasted it to the election episode from house of cards season five, where frank manufactures a terrorist threat against polling stations in tennessee and ohio to get them suspend their elections. that subplot always felt contrived and unrealistic, but this succession episode delivered a much more believable scenario. all of roman's jokes about the "false flag antifa firebombing" and ravenhead going live to laugh about how "the fire was biased against democrats" made me think yeah, that's exactly how that would go down if it really happened.
I wish we had a little more Gerri, Frank and Karl - I love that trio
Same, and throw in Hugo too. Was pretty surprised the old guard got barely any screentime.JDUB08AG said:
I wish we had a little more Gerri, Frank and Karl - I love that trio
Jim01 said:
To me this was maybe my least favorite episode of the entire series. It perfectly summed up the weakness of this show in that every one is so damn unlikeable. I spent most of what I watched fantasizing about Roman getting his head bashed in with a hammer. Such scum. He usually is entertaining talking trash but tonight was outright evil. I ended up fast forwarding and barely watching half the episode.
Well I think it's fair to say the show probably isn't for you if you ended up fast forwarding through this episode. Shame it took until the 3rd to last episode to find out
Jim01 said:
To me this was maybe my least favorite episode of the entire series. It perfectly summed up the weakness of this show in that every one is so damn unlikeable. I spent most of what I watched fantasizing about Roman getting his head bashed in with a hammer. Such scum. He usually is entertaining talking trash but tonight was outright evil. I ended up fast forwarding and barely watching half the episode.
False flag
Partially agree. It is a good show to me but not in the great category. I enjoy parts of it, but the sleaze of it overpowers the show sometimes for me.
it would be interesting to see how shiv would have reacted if her business interest (saving the gojo deal) did not align with her political interest (jimenez winning)
Definitely doesn't leave me with a good feeling at the end of an episode.Jim01 said:
Partially agree. It is a good show to me but not in the great category. I enjoy parts of it, but the sleaze of it overpowers the show sometimes for me.
Last episode more than any other I feel was "all of these people are terrible" episode. Even the pilot you still had good feelings about Kendall.
I think the show has definitely steered us in the direction of supporting Tom. At this point as crappy as he seems to have been as a person from day 1, he's shown true love, willingness to be sacrificed, etc... which is more than any of the kids have.
I think the show has definitely steered us in the direction of supporting Tom. At this point as crappy as he seems to have been as a person from day 1, he's shown true love, willingness to be sacrificed, etc... which is more than any of the kids have.
Basically Shiv treated the info about her pregnancy like a fine wine; she stored it, hoarded it, saved it for a special occasion, and then attempted to smash Tom's f-ckin' face in with it.
Damn, that's good.
Alas, Kentucky. Alas, vanity.
JDUB08AG said:
I wish we had a little more Gerri, Frank and Karl - I love that trio
Agreed. They are really entertaining and the only competent ones left. I guess Carolina too, she's good.
The kids otoh are full of hubris and raw talent, not experience or intelligence. They've been counting on that combo to tread water but are slowly drowning…
I don't want this show to end
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Was half-expecting the shock of the episode to be Greg letting Jess dissuade him from deciding the fate of the country at the last minute in the hallway.
Rewatching now and forgot one of the things that cracked me up the most-when Tom admires the super comfy looking shoes the polling expert is wearing after dismissing the need for them a few seconds earlier.
Also, "I drank things that aren't normally drinks."
Also, "I drank things that aren't normally drinks."
Chuck Cunningham said:Quote:
Roman meeting his family at the start of last week's season -- a family we have barely heard from in 2 seasons -- only to have that be what potentially shapes his decision on what he's finally going to do... i don't mind that being his reason, but those seeds hadn't been watered in like 2+ years.
When did Roman get a family?
Roman has/had a wife and a daughter.
Counterpoint said:Chuck Cunningham said:Quote:
Roman meeting his family at the start of last week's season -- a family we have barely heard from in 2 seasons -- only to have that be what potentially shapes his decision on what he's finally going to do... i don't mind that being his reason, but those seeds hadn't been watered in like 2+ years.
When did Roman get a family?
Roman has/had a wife and a daughter.
So the original quote above was mistaking Roman with Kendall, and its been corrected since then.
But I did search for "Roman's Family" and found this little nugget. Its been so long since I watched it that I forgot, but in the pilot episode Roman was written with a wife and daughter. But when the show got picked up it was decided that Roman would play better as a bachelor so his "wife" in the pilot was rewritten to be his girlfriend.
His faces in the background when he's walking off after telling Kendall was priceless.
My perfect ending....Nan Pierce and Uncle Owen form a power couple and, with the help of Sandy and Stewie perhaps, and Gerry, Frank, Carl...they oust the kids
The problem with people that don't get it is they don't get that they don't get it.
Kendall becoming the next Logan and running Waystar is a perfect ending. He "wins" by getting everything he wants, but we as the audience know that he really loses because he will have alienated his siblings and children in the process...just like Logan. with the added wrinkle that we also know he'll probably screw it all up in the coming years.
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I think Kendall will win...but one or both of the siblings is going to make public the killing of the waiter in season one. That shoe is definitely dropping at some point before the end.
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jackie childs said:
Kendall becoming the next Logan and running Waystar is a perfect ending. He "wins" by getting everything he wants, but we as the audience know that he really loses because he will have alienated his siblings and children in the process...just like Logan. with the added wrinkle that we also know he'll probably screw it all up in the coming years.
And end the scene with Tom and Greg kissing his hand while Frank closes the door slowly as Rava watches on in horror.
I've always been annoyed with Rava's level of disgust for Ken and their world. She really acts like she hates all of it. Though certainly has some nice amenities.
As Colonel Jessup would say, she "rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it."
As Colonel Jessup would say, she "rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it."
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