TXAGFAN said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Great Finale.

I liked what they did with Kim and Jimmy. Remember Kim says, "No matter what happens in there, I'm with you"...thinking he might get denied.

Then they leave the court room, Jimmy shows his true colors, and you can see her realizing how she was conned alongside everyone else....almost like she was thinking 'who is this guy??" Such a dramatic shift in such a short time..

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I agree this was the tone, but I don't get Kim being surprised. She was part of the con.

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When Jimmy's speech veered away from just reading Chuck's letter it no longer was a con in her eyes. She bought into his BS like the panel did. She was stunned when he was laughing at them for buying it.

TXAGFAN said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Great Finale.

I liked what they did with Kim and Jimmy. Remember Kim says, "No matter what happens in there, I'm with you"...thinking he might get denied.

Then they leave the court room, Jimmy shows his true colors, and you can see her realizing how she was conned alongside everyone else....almost like she was thinking 'who is this guy??" Such a dramatic shift in such a short time..

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I agree this was the tone, but I don't get Kim being surprised. She was part of the con.

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She didn't think it was a Con. And she wasn't really in on it.

Remember she spent all that time preparing this 5 steps presentation for him showing his Civic responsibility, etc and his sincerity. Then he says why not just have Chuck tell them and gets the letter. When he stands up to speak he says he has nothing prepared (so nothing from Kims preparation) and instead intends to read the letter. then he stops reading the letter as he reads the mood of the room and instead ad libs the stuff about chuck and him. It seems sincere and Kim knows nothing about this. Remember she was disappointed when he first read the letter (when she brought it from Howard) and he was unaffected. Maybe she should have known, but I think she thinks this reaction is finally genuine.

So she was stunned. He conned even her.

I still think her reaction to the letter when she first gave it to Jimmy was one of relief. She's very protective of Jimmy and thought Chuck was gonna hit him one last time (one last "**** you" from the grave), and it turned out to be a nice, warm letter. At first, I thought she may have been upset at the lack of impact on Jimmy, but now especially given her propensity to defend/help Jimmy (see her reaction to the Huell prosecutor's insult- basically decided to risk her career for him), at this point I'm confident those were just tears of relief that Chuck didn't shred Jimmy one last time. She's rolled with his lack of sadness about Chuck so many times since, going as far as helping him fake sadness at his grave, that I don't think her tears were for the lack of impact on Jimmy at the time. It still think it was relief for Jimmy.

But yeah, she definitely fell into the con during the appeal session.

I think she's surprised mostly by Jimmy's total lack of emotion over Chuck's death and that absolutely none of what he said in that hearing was real. At all. Remember her reaction to Jimmy going off script and not reading the rest of the letter, she was kind of surprised by this and maybe she felt in her heart that what Jimmy was saying was genuine.

Remember, she's grieved over Chuck's death more than Jimmy has. She's the one who handled Chuck's probate, she took the letter from Howard and gave it to Jimmy (still think she wrote it), only to be surprised by his lack of emotion or care at reading the letter.

Kim is Jimmy's rudder, the ego to Jimmy's id. It's only a matter of time before she realizes she won't be able to keep him under control and she's going to let him go.

Edit, everyone else beat me to it.

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Remember, she's grieved over Chuck's death more than Jimmy has. She's the one who handled Chuck's probate, she took the letter from Howard and gave it to Jimmy (still think she wrote it), only to be surprised by his lack of emotion or care at reading the letter.

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Howard handled Chucks probate, not Kim.

expresswrittenconsent said:

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Remember, she's grieved over Chuck's death more than Jimmy has. She's the one who handled Chuck's probate, she took the letter from Howard and gave it to Jimmy (still think she wrote it), only to be surprised by his lack of emotion or care at reading the letter.

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Howard handled Chucks probate, not Kim.

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Yeah, I was referring to Howard asking for Jimmy to be there and Jimmy refused to go, but Kim went instead.

Great finale. I like how the show gets you to like some really bad guys, like Jimmy, Mike, even Nacho to some extent, despite the horrible things they've done to people, by occasionally showing their softer side .. and also because there are even worse antagonists in the show like Hector and Lalo Salamanca, Don Eladio, and even Gustuvo Fring. ...and then the writers even get us to hate who would be the "good guys" in real life like Hamlin and Chuck. ...and wow do they do a good job - I hate Chuck despite the fact that he had good reason to treat Jimmy the way he did. He tried and tried for years to help his incorrigible little bro before he started resenting him and Jimmy drove him to off himself. This is good TV right here! Mike and Jimmy's characters are outstanding!

In case you wanted to watch the last 5 minutes again.

I was thinking, I hope the series finale is 100% Omaha timeline.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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ChiliBeans said:

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Were you as impressed as I was that someone on this thread nailed it with the DBA idea?

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As opposed to changing his name legally?

Doesn't seem that crazy, to be honest. Unless this is a joke?

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Everyone knew he'd change his name (or have a DBA), so that's not impressive.

Someone did float the idea that Jimmy got back into Lawyering by changing his name as an end-around to him not being re-instated by that review board... that was just a dumb idea. Lawyering and the Bar don't work like.

Did anybody else think the decision/announcement to adopt Saul Goodman was sorta random and sudden? Kim had no idea it was coming. Maybe they will explain it next season, but that sorta seemed strange to me.

We know he was selling burners as Saul Goodman, and before being denied last week, I thought they'd had a discussion that he'd have to figure out how to bridge that business to his new law practice.

DannyDuberstein said:

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We know he was selling burners as Saul Goodman, and before being denied last week, I thought they'd had a discussion that he'd have to figure out how to bridge that business to his new law practice.

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I don't remember that discussion. Kim seemed damn surprised that he would do that.

Maybe he is trying to separate himself from Chuck and get out of his shadow completely? I would think he would tell Kim about it earlier, but maybe he figured that she'd be disappointed and not as willing to help him use that angle to get his license back?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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When Jimmy went "off-script", Kim thought he might have actually started speaking genuinely. It's clear from her reactions.

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Yes, it is clear that is what is being communicated to the audience but I agree with TXAGFAN that I don't know why Kim would have been "fooled" at all by then. Jimmy had been faking everything all along and had consistently told her he was unaffected by Chuck's death. I certainly didn't think he was being sincere and I don't know why she would have been.

But it doesn't matter what I think, it works for the show and makes for a dramatic ending and setup as to why Kim is not in BB.

The whole point of showing Kim wipe that tear from her eyes in a court setting where she is genuinely unemotional shows she bought the whole charade. The he stomps all over any feelings with his yucking it up about the board. She knows it's over and what his true path is going forward.

As for Chuck, he is amenable and even somewhat nice if you are on or near his station. Anything below that and you are a tool to be used. He's really not a lot different than Jimmy, he just uses the law correctly and words to soften it or hide behind a facade. He played his head shrink and the doctor for a fool because it served his ultimate purpose. As was stated, he tried to bully Howard to the point of being poisonous to the firm.

Both Chuck and Jimmy seem obsessed with winning at all costs. Jimmy through charm, acting, emotional manipulation, lies. Chuck through The Immutable Law, bullying, insults. When winning is "I get what I want, to hell with everyone else" then you are not a likable person.

aTmAg said:

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Maybe he is trying to separate himself from Chuck and get out of his shadow completely? I would think he would tell Kim about it earlier, but maybe he figured that she'd be disappointed and not as willing to help him use that angle to get his license back?

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Didn't he tell the board something like if they approved him he would try to be a true McGill or something like that?

If I heard that right, he was already formulating his plan for the DBA.

Complete Idiot said:

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Both Chuck and Jimmy seem obsessed with winning at all costs. Jimmy through charm, acting, emotional manipulation, lies. Chuck through The Immutable Law, bullying, insults. When winning is "I get what I want, to hell with everyone else" then you are not a likable person.

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FWIW - the episode was titled "Winner"

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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aTmAg said:

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Maybe he is trying to separate himself from Chuck and get out of his shadow completely? I would think he would tell Kim about it earlier, but maybe he figured that she'd be disappointed and not as willing to help him use that angle to get his license back?

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Didn't he tell the board something like if they approved him he would try to be a true McGill or something like that?

If I heard that right, he was already formulating his plan for the DBA.

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I agree that he didn't make the decision right there on the spot. But I find it strange that he didn't hint anything to Kim about it. He was telling her everything else.

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Did anybody else think the decision/announcement to adopt Saul Goodman was sorta random and sudden? Kim had no idea it was coming. Maybe they will explain it next season, but that sorta seemed strange to me.

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Not really. He used that phrase/name in season 1 and 2 in the flashbacks (when he was slippin Jimmy).

He used it again when he was selling the phones. And we knew he was going there eventually because of Breaking Bad.

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He was telling her everything else.

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To a point.

Once he saw that girl get rejected for the scholarship, it flipped a switch. He realized he was just like her, and he'd never be like the other lawyers in the room. Jimmy completely went off-script, veered from what he and Kim had been planning, and did his own thing...surprising even Kim.

AgGrad99 said:

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Did anybody else think the decision/announcement to adopt Saul Goodman was sorta random and sudden? Kim had no idea it was coming. Maybe they will explain it next season, but that sorta seemed strange to me.

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Not really. He used that phrase/name in season 1 and 2 in the flashbacks (when he was slippin Jimmy).

He used it again when he was selling the phones. And we knew he was going there eventually because of Breaking Bad.

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I don't mean the name "Saul Goodman" was new. I'm just talking about the fact that he never hinted the idea to Kim or anything. He basically threw out, "I'm going to practice as Saul Goodman, BTW!" to her all of the sudden.

side note - anyone been watching the Lodge 49 show after BCS? It's weird, but I must admit, I've actually really enjoyed it ...in a weird "John From Cincinnati" kind of way...

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Also, here's my two cents on the Jimmy vs Chuck debate.

Is Jimmy a "good" guy? No, he's a con-man and he always has been.

But, that is irrelevant in the discussion of Chuck. He's genuinely an awful person, both to Jimmy and to others in general. Hell, he tried to sue Howard. And he has an ego that rivals that of Walter White.

People say there was a hole in the show of a missing antagonist (which Lalo is now filling), and that's because Chuck was the villain.

You can debate on Jimmy and Mike, but there is no debate when it comes to Chuck. IMO.

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This is how I feel as well.

aTmAg said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Did anybody else think the decision/announcement to adopt Saul Goodman was sorta random and sudden? Kim had no idea it was coming. Maybe they will explain it next season, but that sorta seemed strange to me.

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Not really. He used that phrase/name in season 1 and 2 in the flashbacks (when he was slippin Jimmy).

He used it again when he was selling the phones. And we knew he was going there eventually because of Breaking Bad.

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I don't mean the name "Saul Goodman" was new. I'm just talking about the fact that he never hinted the idea to Kim or anything. He basically threw out, "I'm going to practice as Saul Goodman, BTW!" to her all of the sudden.

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1 or 2 episodes ago Jimmy says to Kim something about "they all know me as Saul Goodman anyway". So It wasn't out of the blue. But the reveal being right at the end did kind of give it a 7pm wed cbs crime show type cheesy surprise ending feeling. I dont really know what else could be done with the "saul" reveal, though. It has been coming on for 40 episodes , and is the title of the show, so any way they do it is going to feel a little fan service-ish, or forced.

AgGrad99 said:

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I don't mean the name "Saul Goodman" was new. I'm just talking about the fact that he never hinted the idea to Kim or anything. He basically threw out, "I'm going to practice as Saul Goodman, BTW!" to her all of the sudden.

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Yeah, I gotcha. I just meant, we all knew it was eventually going there.

This was his 'breaking bad' moment. He finally realized who he is, what he's up against, and what he has to do to 'win' in the end. After his speech to the girl, It was almost like a declaration of his new direction. No more half-half. He's not trying to be an upstanding attorney, with an upstanding practice, doing something like Elder-law.

He's now Saul Goodman. The old Jimmy's gone.

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I guess that if they had him hint to Kim earlier, it would have taken the punch out of the closing. I'm not sure how they could have done it better. It still seemed sorta forced though. Maybe it was unavoidable.

Complete Idiot said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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When Jimmy went "off-script", Kim thought he might have actually started speaking genuinely. It's clear from her reactions.

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Yes, it is clear that is what is being communicated to the audience but I agree with TXAGFAN that I don't know why Kim would have been "fooled" at all by then. Jimmy had been faking everything all along and had consistently told her he was unaffected by Chuck's death. I certainly didn't think he was being sincere and I don't know why she would have been.

But it doesn't matter what I think, it works for the show and makes for a dramatic ending and setup as to why Kim is not in BB.

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Because I think she thought he was just putting on a show to her and to himself because of how angry he was with Chuck when he died, and perhaps was feeling guilt deep down and hiding it. I think she always suspected Jimmy would eventually crack and admit he did love his brother and he is sorry for how it ended.

When she realized that was not the case, I would imagine she would even start to question if Jimmy even really loves her, or if he can love anyone, truly.

Texaggie7nine said:

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Complete Idiot said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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When Jimmy went "off-script", Kim thought he might have actually started speaking genuinely. It's clear from her reactions.

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Yes, it is clear that is what is being communicated to the audience but I agree with TXAGFAN that I don't know why Kim would have been "fooled" at all by then. Jimmy had been faking everything all along and had consistently told her he was unaffected by Chuck's death. I certainly didn't think he was being sincere and I don't know why she would have been.

But it doesn't matter what I think, it works for the show and makes for a dramatic ending and setup as to why Kim is not in BB.

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Because I think she thought he was just putting on a show to her and to himself because of how angry he was with Chuck when he died, and perhaps was feeling guilt deep down and hiding it. I think she always suspected Jimmy would eventually crack and admit he did love his brother and he is sorry for how it ended.

When she realized that was not the case, I would imagine she would even start to question if Jimmy even really loves her, or if he can love anyone, truly.

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Yes. Her thoughts were the same as the review board that denied him as she said something like due to lack of empathy or whatever the term was. Now she cant believe anything...

He already sees Kim moving on from him, at least business wise. Why would he share that part of his plan?

I like it when Sepinwall reads between the lines to say what everyone else was thinking after reading Gould's comments.

This came out today. There are 9 total videos of these on YouTube.




You can check them all out here.
https://www.youtube.com/user/amc