*** Better Call Saul: Season 4 *** (SEE NOTE IN OP)

160,119 Views | 1458 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Brian Earl Spilner
GiveEmHellBill
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I may be wrong, but the way I took that was that Kim had tore into Howard with such ferocity that it may have permanently affected their friendship and business relationship.

And it was over a letter that ended up being a nice letter that (to me) was obviously written right after Jimmy had gotten his license but before he started practicing (which is when Chuck started to dislike the paths his brother was taking).

I think she cried because she went through an emotional hell over that letter and it wasn't a bad letter at all and on top of that, Jimmy didn't seem to care much about it. She agonized over it for nothing.

And I wish that I could watch an entire separate spin off that just focused on Nacho and his storyline. I love his side of the show so much and that actor is just f-ing nails. Soooooooo good.
hurleyag
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I think a good easter egg would have been when Gail was talking about the pureness of the different cooks, mentioning one of them had a hint of chili powder.
AgGrad99
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Quote:

I think she cried because she went through an emotional hell over that letter and it wasn't a bad letter at all and on top of that, Jimmy didn't seem to care much about it. She agonized over it for nothing.
Yep.

That was the relief I was talking about. She was tore up over it, dreading giving it to him...and it all turned out to be ok.
AgGrad99
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Speaking of Kim.....what's she doing?

Mesa Verde was her dream client, and her meal ticket. Things are going well, but she seems bothered by their expansion and is heading to court for some reason?

What's she up to?


Ag_07
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AgGrad99 said:

Speaking of Kim.....what's she doing?

SandPiper was her dream client, and her meal ticket. Things are going well, but she seems bothered by their expansion and is heading to court for some reason?

What's she up to?

You mean Mesa Verde right?
AgGrad99
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Sorry...yes...Mesa Verde. (fixed)
GiveEmHellBill
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This is just me, but I took her reaction to Mesa Verde's expansion plans as bad news for her.

She has thrown herself into their first expansion to the breaking point to where she fell asleep while driving and is now in her current damaged state. She is so physically and emotionally exhausted by this one client, but she felt that it was all going to be worth it when finished. Now, she realizes that not only is this only the beginning, but that it's going to get 100x bigger.

If I were her, I'd be thinking "I literally cannot handle this myself or it will kill me." I know that Mesa Verde has complete faith and 100% commitment to her, but there is no flippin' way one lawyer can handle this. I think Kim knows that she's either going to have to hire a completely new staff and maybe a couple of partners and become a new firm or she's going to have to join a firm and bring Mesa Verde with her.

Either way, she realizes she can't just be a one-person operation with one assistant. That would also explain why she changed from wanting to do all the paperwork herself to having her assistant write up a draft for her to approve: she knows she has to start delegating the smaller stuff and not do everything herself.

When she saw the models, she realized she had to change or else she would drown.
dave94
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Great points, and I would add that she probably dreads that Mesa will ultimately just hire a big-time firm if they're looking to expand that much.

After all her hard work.
Complete Idiot
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AgGrad99 said:


Quote:

I think she cried because she went through an emotional hell over that letter and it wasn't a bad letter at all and on top of that, Jimmy didn't seem to care much about it. She agonized over it for nothing.
Yep.

That was the relief I was talking about. She was tore up over it, dreading giving it to him...and it all turned out to be ok.
I could buy this if she stayed there with Jimmy, seems like she could just state that was the reason for her crying. "Why are you crying?" , "I was afraid he was going to say mean things but what he said is actually very nice". Instead, she walked away from Jimmy and I felt they made a pretty big deal of ending the show on the fact she's closing a door in his face. I don't think it was a meaningless scene, the explanation you are proposing would have no impact on the storyline whatsoever. Not saying it isn't possible, I'm just wildly speculating it's something that will have more of an impact on her relationship with Jimmy.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Here's one from reddit. (I don't buy into it, but worth discussion.)

Quote:

Grand Unifying Theory

I think that Kim knows something deeply troubling about Mesa Verde and that she's not simply welshing under pressure.

I think she's seen through a facade of extreme niceness toward her and realised that, to be blunt. Mesa Verde are handling drug money. The speed of that expansion and the will to expand right across the country with all that fancy architecture? C'mon, that's a leap too far, there has to be hundreds of millions of dollars available for that expansion, and not just from good, clean, honest mortgages.

We can fill in the blanks from there and conclude that, given the universe we're dealing with here, it's the money from maybe the cartel, but more likely from Los Pollos Hermanos; it's possible that this regional bank is cooperating with or even just another front for Gus Fring.

If you go looking for character flaws in Mesa Verde you might see:
  • Their willingness to put up with some shadiness surrounding Kim + Jimmy
  • Their extreme niceness to her, all those lunches and dinners (though we know that's just business, the show hasspent a fair amount of time having us rub shoulders with those characters.)
  • That boss of theirs is slightly too much of a good ol' boy to just be a plain ol' bank manager. That ****er is dirty.

I quite like that Kim looked up at their logo statuette in the lobby - it's a freakin' cowboy. Maybe that's all MV really are.

If I'm even half-right then if Kim even tries to do the right thing here she's going to get burned, hard, and might end up dead or hoover-manned.

That's enough right there to make a sufficiently explosive/fitting ending to the show arc and send Jimmy right over the bent horizon.
Know Your Enemy
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mavsfan4ever
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I actually like that theory. But doubt it's correct.
expresswrittenconsent
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MV could be "corrupt" without being cartel backed. Where are we in the timeline of the show? The recession from the subprime mortgage stuff was 07-09ish?
AgGrad99
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Quote:

I don't think it was a meaningless scene, the explanation you are proposing would have no impact on the storyline whatsoever.
Well, to be fair, it's somewhat of the ending to that storyline. Chuck is gone now. No more bro hate/love.

DannyDuberstein
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Agree that the Mesa Verde news was an "oh ****" vs "oh boy". She nearly killed herself with overwork, and just as she's pulling herself back together to move forward with MV, they hit her with this crazy expansion. Tons of locations, Different states, Different laws. Totally overwhelming. She couldn't even hear what he was saying after a while. What I don't know is what the plan is now - if delegating to her paralegal was her sucking it up and thinking "I need to figure out how I'm going to take this on, and step 1 is being willing to delegate something I wasn't 10 minutes ago". Or if it's a step toward a freak-out.
AgGrad99
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I wonder why she decided to changes plans and to the courthouse?

DannyDuberstein
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Not sure. Should be telling on whether it's digging in or freaking out. I think it ends up the former.
DG-Ag
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AgGrad99 said:

I wonder why she decided to changes plans and to the courthouse?


This is what I'm hung up on. It's like something made a light click on in her head and the first thing she thought of was going to the courthouse? There are lawyers on this thread - what kind of damning evidence could someone find at the courthouse that you couldn't just find logging on to Lexus/Nexus (of whatever the name of that service is)?
91_Aggie
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DG-Ag said:

AgGrad99 said:

I wonder why she decided to changes plans and to the courthouse?


This is what I'm hung up on. It's like something made a light click on in her head and the first thing she thought of was going to the courthouse? There are lawyers on this thread - what kind of damning evidence could someone find at the courthouse that you couldn't just find logging on to Lexus/Nexus (of whatever the name of that service is)?


Did that exist in 2003 to 2004. They don't even have iPhones yet.
TCTTS
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2007.
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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The Kim being overwhelmed theory is possibly valid but to most people with any kind of ambition and a good mental state wouldn't the thought be : " oh wow, yes this is going to be a lot of work, but I'm going to get lotsa help and turn this into an opportunity to grow my practice". (of course mental state being important to that and maybe she is struggling with that)

I feel like there's something more to that whole story line.
AgGrad99
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

The Kim being overwhelmed theory is possibly valid but to most people with any kind of ambition and a good mental state wouldn't the thought be : " oh wow, yes this is going to be a lot of work, but I'm going to get lotsa help and turn this into an opportunity to grow my practice". (of course mental state being important to that and maybe she is struggling with that)

I feel like there's something more to that whole story line.
I thought the exact same thing.

With Mesa, she has nothing. No practice at all. To me, that sounds like job security and future income. A lot of it...and a chance to actually grow my own firm.

Seems like there's more to it.

DG-Ag
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I think someone earlier in the thread alluded to the possibility that the funds for this vast expansion were obtained illicitly. Perhaps that's her concern and she wants to research their ownership structure (seems as their outside counsel she would already have this information, but hey this is a TV show). Perhaps a prominent local restaurant owner has contributed significant capital?
OldArmy71
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The problem with her worrying about illicit funds from Gus is that she has no idea who he is nor that his restaurant is a front.
Belton Ag
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DG-Ag said:

AgGrad99 said:

I wonder why she decided to changes plans and to the courthouse?


This is what I'm hung up on. It's like something made a light click on in her head and the first thing she thought of was going to the courthouse? There are lawyers on this thread - what kind of damning evidence could someone find at the courthouse that you couldn't just find logging on to Lexus/Nexus (of whatever the name of that service is)?
LexisNexis has been around as long as computers have been widely available to the average law firm (I'm not a lawyer but I'm somewhat familiar with it).
DG-Ag
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OldArmy71 said:

The problem with her worrying about illicit funds from Gus is that she has no idea who he is nor that his restaurant is a front.
You're right. I'm just grasping at straws. But she doesn't know any of that yet. Maybe she starts poking around, asks questions. This gets back to Gus. Threats are made. In comes Jimmy to save the day? I'm sure I'm completely wrong. Just fun to theorize.
DG-Ag
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Belton Ag said:

DG-Ag said:

AgGrad99 said:

I wonder why she decided to changes plans and to the courthouse?


This is what I'm hung up on. It's like something made a light click on in her head and the first thing she thought of was going to the courthouse? There are lawyers on this thread - what kind of damning evidence could someone find at the courthouse that you couldn't just find logging on to Lexus/Nexus (of whatever the name of that service is)?
LexisNexis has been around as long as computers have (I'm not a lawyer but I'm somewhat familiar with it).
That's what I thought. I thought I remembered our inhouse legal guys using this years and years ago.
Ag_07
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Could she have been going to the courthouse to recruit lawyers for her practice or maybe to talk to convince someone to take MV off her hands.

Are discussions about the previews for next weeks episode allowed?
Belton Ag
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Ag_07 said:

Could she have been going to the courthouse to recruit lawyers for her practice or maybe to talk to convince someone to take MV off her hands.

Are discussions about the previews for next weeks episode allowed?
When was Chuck's estate going to be probated? Maybe that's what she was going to the courthouse for.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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Not even near my field of expertise, but shouldn't she have a pretty good idea of their net worth from the previous work that Jimmy screwed Chuck on? Maybe with all the expansion ideas laid out she was thinking "no freaking way they have that kind of capital". But also, if Gus or Cartel is involved in this as a money laundering scheme, both seem to be much more in control and wouldn't allow Mesa Verde dude to make it that plainly apparent.

As for expanding her practice, you would think her and her MV buddy would come up with several candidates from their past to add to a team. That's why I think it is something completely different.

Also, why would MV dude be spending all that coin on a bunch of models instead of just having renderings?

I know,........ Gilligan.
DG-Ag
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So, I went and read a couple of recaps - Forbes and Rolling Stone - to see what they said about the whole Kim/Mesa Verde thing. I can't remember which, but one completely ignored it. The other surmised that she was envisioning a future of mountains of dull corporate work, paper pushing, drafting documents and such. Maybe the request to get her to the courthouse was so that she could see what kind of cases she could drum up there. Criminal cases and such. Maybe she will eventually run into some Nacho-type characters and eventually get Jimmy in on the action. And that's how he hooks up with Gus?
PatAg
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DG-Ag said:

So, I went and read a couple of recaps - Forbes and Rolling Stone - to see what they said about the whole Kim/Mesa Verde thing. I can't remember which, but one completely ignored it. The other surmised that she was envisioning a future of mountains of dull corporate work, paper pushing, drafting documents and such. Maybe the request to get her to the courthouse was so that she could see what kind of cases she could drum up there. Criminal cases and such. Maybe she will eventually run into some Nacho-type characters and eventually get Jimmy in on the action. And that's how he hooks up with Gus?
Wouldn't it be more likely that Mike knows Jimmy is actually a good lawyer who doesn't care about the character of his clients?
She was definitely staring into space, then abruptly decides to go to the courthouse, I just can't figure what she would need there. I don't think you would be going there to recruit lawyers, or to join another firm's practice.
Geriatric Punk
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On Kim to the Courthouse:

1. Lexis and Westlaw have both been around forever, but they are expensive as hell (especially in the early 2000s). Law firms "hire" law students as unpaid interns to do their legal research for them because both services are usually free to law students. Took me about a year to figure that out when I was a lowly "intern." They are usually free to the public at law libraries adjacent to the courthouse. Just responding to a previous question.

2. I actually think the reddit theory might have something to do with Kim going to the courthouse. She is being hired to do the licensing, etc, for MV's massive expansion. Perhaps she is going down to the courthouse to pull records for entity creation and or ownership. Maybe she is looking into who the additional agents/owners/partners, etc. are. She stares at the large statute that resembles a shadow just before deciding to go to the courthouse. Maybe that inspired her to seek out possible shadowy puppeteers. Of course, having been intimately involved in their affairs already you would think she would already be privy to this information. Just a thought.
Life's an endless party, not a pushcart.
Complete Idiot
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Geriatric Punk said:

On Kim to the Courthouse:

1. Lexis and Westlaw have both been around forever, but they are expensive as hell (especially in the early 2000s). Law firms "hire" law students as unpaid interns to do their legal research for them because both services are usually free to law students. Took me about a year to figure that out when I was a lowly "intern." They are usually free to the public at law libraries adjacent to the courthouse. Just responding to a previous question.

2. I actually think the reddit theory might have something to do with Kim going to the courthouse. She is being hired to do the licensing, etc, for MV's massive expansion. Perhaps she is going down to the courthouse to pull records for entity creation and or ownership. Maybe she is looking into who the additional agents/owners/partners, etc. are. She stares at the large statute that resembles a shadow just before deciding to go to the courthouse. Maybe that inspired her to seek out possible shadowy puppeteers. Of course, having been intimately involved in their affairs already you would think she would already be privy to this information. Just a thought.


As far as the court trip, I had similar but not-as-we'll-developed thoughts. I think she sensed something off in the extreme room-o-models. She's going to court to research something related to Mesa Verde and their legal filings, or ownership history.
Hey Nav
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The last couple of weeks , it seems like I'm back to watching Breaking Bad, in all that was good about BB. Very enjoyable
 
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