***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****

262,001 Views | 2472 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
amercer
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I think the after credits scene was just the fever dream hell that William lives in now. In addition to all the terrible things he's done, he will never know if he is real or not.

Also, Stubbs is a host huh?
amercer
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Champ Bailey said:

So here is my question. When does Williams loop start? Is the implication that he actually died from all those gunshot wounds? And when he wakes up to Emily at the tree having magically healed him and him explaining how the park is manipulating the guests is the beginning of his loop?


Not according to the interview posted above. He shot his daughter, and he's alive at the end of season two.
Dro07
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Nvm just read it.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Another thing I didn't get is how Aketcheta's wife had made it into Eden. Wasn't she locked in cold storage?
amercer
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dromo07 said:

End of season 2 pre or post credits?


Yeah, the post credit scene could be two hundred years in the future with Delores playing his daughter on a quest to understand the MIB. (Or any other crazy theory)

But at the "current " timeline, he was alive and not a host.
amercer
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Champ Bailey said:

Another thing I didn't get is how Aketcheta's wife had made it into Eden. Wasn't she locked in cold storage?


I think the implication was that Maeve did it.
oragator
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Champ Bailey said:

oragator said:

dromo07 said:

ISo really there are 3 time lines again. Part of if was before the flood, then after the flood and the last is host William viable Loop?
This is the thing that didn't make sense, not sure what I missed.
If Bernard killed Delores and left, how was the room not flooded when they went back? And how did Bernard end up on the beach in episode one in the first place?


They showed Bernard lying down on the beach speaking with Ford.

And I think the room was just sealed.
Yeah he was lying there, but how did he get there? Did he randomly just walk to a beach where they happened to be setting up shop?
As far as the room being sealed, I went back to watch it, all the space around the room was filling up, and the lake was there at the end but the water in those rooms was gone with no sign of it having been there. Didn't seem to make sense. But maybe that's one of those suspension of belief deals.
amercer
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Also, I'm glad there was a path to resurrect Maeve's crew. I can't imagine them reopening a park, but I expect that set of hosts to be up and running on the island in season 3. Maybe Bernard will break them out to help him.
Sazerac
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Post credits makes the episode / season!

Kinda BS that they did it that way...
SWCBonfire
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If there's no west in westworld anymore, I'm probably going to sit this one out.

And jumps between timelines are one thing. Not doing it well is another. There was a payback in season 1 that tied dissimilar things together. No one guessed the reason for the flashback in season 2 because there was no reason other than to obscure something about Charlotte. And MIB is yet another flash forward (back?) If next season is riding on a flashback to MIB, that isn't a good hook. Should have had Lawrence there to test fidelity anyway.

And why couldn't Delores remain as Charlotte? #blackactressesmatter
amercer
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I would like to know how Bernard had access to the forge before. (The AI running it said Bernard had been there a hundred million times) I guess Ford snuck him in?
amercer
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In guessing Teddy is in Charlotte.

Use whatever hashtag you want for that.
tk for tu juan
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Champ Bailey said:

Another thing I didn't get is how Aketcheta's wife had made it into Eden. Wasn't she locked in cold storage?
All the hosts left cold storage before the dinner party in season 1.
tk for tu juan
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I like how they used a prostitute to spread a virus to all the hosts in close contact.
PatAg
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Pretty sure William is just having a fever dream where he is putting himself through what he Deloss had to go through. Self punishment and whatnot.


I don't hate this season, but I definitely don't like it either. It feels like it fell short of whatever they were trying to achieve, but damn if it wasn't extremely well acted and shot.
TCTTS
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It's only been 48 hours since my self-imposed TexAgs hiatus, but I couldn't help popping back in to link to the Vanity Fair article below, since it does such a great job explaining the stinger at the end, and I see quite a few people missing what was actually happening there...


Between the VF article and The Hollywood Reporter Q&A linked to below (originally posted by SeattleAgJr), the more I've read, the more I've fallen head over heels with this finale.

Yes, this season was a bit too overly complicated... yes, it was contrived probably more often than not... and yes, they could have done a better job at times explaining certain plot points and motivations...

... and yet, the IDEAS expressed and grappled with in the finale have me absolutely reeling. Was this one of the best finales I've ever seen? Not even close. But I can't remember the last time a season of television ended and I felt like this. That feeling of complete awe at what was pulled off... at the concepts and themes being batted around... at the audaciousness of both the plot mechanics and the epic sense of scale... while also almost being... humble... in my anticipation of what's to come. If only because I'm so astonished by how they left everything.

Long live Chris and Jonah Nolan. Because no one else so consistently blows my mind in quite this way.

I mean, outside of all the philosophical brilliance... that gateway was one of the coolest and inventive sci-fi ideas I've ever seen. And no one is really even talking about it. I get all the little plot contrivances with Maeve surrounding it, but damn... that was just so high concept and executed so incredibly well.

Quote:

The whole "i need you, an adversary, in the real world" is such a weakly contrived motivation to bring Bernard along.

That's exactly what a human being would say.

Don't be such a human being.

But seriously... I loved that. Very Joker/Dark Knight-esque. And explained so eloquently by Lisa Joy...

Quote:

In the end, the lesson [Delores] learned is that she can change. She's changed her mind. She's changed her philosophy. She realizes she has but one path to potentially securing the hosts' safety, when she helps see through Maeve and Akecheta's plan by securing the sovereignty and safety of the Sublime, to which many of the hosts have escaped. It's an acknowledgment that there are other paths other than hers that she needs to be tolerant and accepting of and can't stand in the way of. It's much how she tells Bernard that she understands they will likely be at odds. They will likely come into conflict. They may even kill each other. But she's come to understand that true freedom isn't something that arises from a lack of dissent, from a dictatorial or totalitarian rule of one set of ideologies. It's something that has to happen with a plurality of ideas, sometimes coming into conflict. Because she's learned her lesson, she's bringing Bernard back into this world to be a check on her own power, in some ways.

I'm sorry, but that's on another level for me. In fact, I think that's ******* brilliant.

Here's the previously mentioned, must-read Q&A it came from...


In short, I may never rewatch the finale again... but I'm going to be thinking about it for a long, long time.

And I cannot wait for what Nolan & Joy have in store for season three.

(In the meantime, back to my hiatus. Will talk to you guys after the holiday.)
hunter2012
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my unnderstanding is the real william went down the elevator and we still don't know what happened and the post credit scene shows where his eventual loop end up breaking down, where he killed his daughter.
gomerschlep
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Post credit scene: So in William's fidelity testing, does he have to relive his entire life each test? So did we just see everything that really happened in the past, but is being simulated over and over again to prefect William's immortal host self?

And did anyone else think in the final frame that William was smiling just for a split second before it cut to black, like "Holy **** we've finally done it?"
MBAR
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I don't think real William ever made it down the elevator. He likely FINALLY died from all the wounds he suffered. If he had gone down the elevator he would have seen Bernard and they made it clear he did not. I mean how much blood does this dude have? Gunshots, slit in the arm, fingers blown off but still he can get up and go? Nope.

The only time he actually gets down the elevator is during the scene when they're testing him as a host.
MBAR
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Hickory High said:

#1 said:

I might be the minority... or the majority, but I was so disappointed in this season. Aside from the Deloss/Nightmarish episode, the season was bad. And that's unfortunate because I loved the first season.
Yep. Looking back on it now, I think the only thing that kept me coming back each week was the hope that maybe, just maybe, the newest episode would help me to understand what the hell is going on in the show. But it didn't. Just made everything worse.

Not all that interested in Season 3 at this point.
I don't get how anyone doesn't understand whats going on with the show at this point. That was literally 1 1/2 hours of exposition.
MBAR
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YoungWaltonAg18 said:

I imagine most of the people complaining here will be a little more pleased whenever someone makes a linear master cut of everything.
That takes half the fun out of this show, IMO. Literally 98% of shows are straight forward. Westworld incorporated a plot point - Bernard's deaddressed memories - into the method of story telling. Maybe Nolan was inspired by his brother's movie Momento.

I get that its not for everyone, but I really like the device even more when its placed in its proper context in the finale.
MBAR
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dlance said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

dromo07 said:

I honestly expected the daughter to age every time they showed her.

well... who says she is not a robot too... ala

Arnold built and tested Dolores
later Dolores built and tested Bernard
and we saw real William testing Delos
and now Emily testing William

so maybe real William built Emily and now robo Emily is testing older robo William

it's the circle of robot-life.




Pretty sure we saw dead Emily on the beach so tester Emily had to have been a host right?

What if Delores rebuilt Emily and is now trying to rebuild William?
May not be a host per say. It could have been the system much in the way it tested Dellos.
Gap
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I don't think the show will retain the smart, "it show" reputation that it brought into season 2. There are some payoffs but also many meaningless twists, dragging storytelling, and cliched dialogue.
MBAR
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DannyDuberstein said:

The whole "i need you, an adversary, in the real world" is such a weakly contrived motivation to bring Bernard along.
Delores grew because of Bernard. He pushed her farther. She did the same for him. That was a huge plot point in the episode. You may not like it, but its well supported and far from weakly contrived.
MBAR
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Gap said:

I don't think the show will retain the smart, "it show" reputation that it brought into season 2. There are some payoffs but also many meaningless twists, dragging storytelling, and cliched dialogue.
Its ultimately a TV show, but there's nothing out there that is telling such a unique story in an excellent way. I can see the viewership dropping because the show has grown way beyond cowboys and indians but now that the leftovers is gone this is the best for a smart TV show out there by a mile.
MBAR
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I am very interested in who's pearls Halores took with her when she left the park. One is obviously Bernard, but there were more. I don't think Maeve is one as it seems the techs were going to bring her back. She put Teddy into the ideal world so I don't think one is him either. Ford? Clementine? Will be neat to see which actors they choose to keep around for big roles in season 3.

MBAR
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Oh, so I just read that William is the injured VIP mentioned as Halores is leaving the park. Apparently you can see him in the tent. So he never went down into the Forge except as a digital copy/host but he actually is alive in the current timeline.

So we know at some point in the future he WILL be a host but he's still alive.
Counterpoint
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amercer said:

In guessing Teddy is in Charlotte.

Use whatever hashtag you want for that.
#Charddy
emtes
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He was alive when Charlores was speaking to Stubbs before getting on the boat. The other qa chick said something to the effect of an important person being found alive and in bad shape. It showed William moving.
emtes
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No necessarily a "host". More like Delos from what that article said
SeattleAgJr
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"smart"?

If all of us are picking up things from reading write-ups and interviews released after the finale aired, that does not make the show or the episode "smart".

It means it was bad storytelling.
mhayden
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I liked the finale. Wasn't great, but wasn't a letdown.

The amount of exposition that took place pretty much confirms what I had felt most of the season -- that the storytellers just weren't up to the task of doing multiple timelines like that. If you have more than a handful of "character explains why they've been doing what they've been doing the last 6-7 episodes despite there being no real on-screen need" scenes then it's because you didn't properly lay the story out previously.

Ditto when a character sacrifices himself (with no real need) and you feel very little emotional impact. I liked Sizemore, but didn't really care when he died.

I just think this season suffered far too much from the only likeable character being a guy that didn't know what the hell was going on the majority of the time (Bernard). I understand the need for him to fragment his memories to hide what he was doing, but it makes for a very difficult story to tell. The rest of the characters it's hard to grow any attachment to, because A) You don't know if they are real or not and B) Death isn't final in this show, despite how many times they say it will be. (Teddy lives. Ford basically lives. Etc, etc...). And once you had Bernard hacking into his own system I feel like the season really lost any chance of telling a coherent storyline. That's just a cheap way to change the character's direction.

The part I really enjoyed about the show was when it dove into the tech aspect of what Delos was doing, how they were doing it, the different tests, etc...

All in all I was satisfied with the season, but certainly won't fall under one of my all time favorites. Just glad it didn't go down the True Detective S2 route where everyone kept saying it was turning the corner up until the final episode where there wasn't enough time to turn the corner (having far too much hope based on what was really a pretty flimsy S1 story).

WW S1 was great, and WW S2 was OK.

Mantis Toboggan MD
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Still digesting the finale, probably will need to rewatch it again before I can make any judgement on it. But the thing that stood out to me the most based on my first watch of the finale is, once again, only in Westworld would three trained mercenaries with fully automatic p90s shooting from a stationary position and covered by a vehicle be outgunned by two people with revolvers shooting on horseback without any cover. The ineptitude of the security forces may be the most unrealistic part about this show for me (joking... kind of).
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mhayden
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Agreed. That's something I rarely notice in any movie/show and it's stuck out like a sore thumb multiple times in this season alone.
Hickory High
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SeattleAgJr said:

"smart"?

If all of us are picking up things from reading write-ups and interviews released after the finale aired, that does not make the show or the episode "smart".

It means it was bad storytelling.
 
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