Oh, I forgot to mention...best line (not sarcasm either) from the last episode.. "Happy trails, mother****er!"
***** WESTWORLD Season 2 (HBO) Official *****
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Last: 5 yr ago by bearamedic99
I agree they became enlightened at a different rate than the rest.
This show is in desperate need of some level of comedic relief, that was a solid moment.
Every single line of dialogue feels like it bears the entire weight of the plot, so I appreciated that.
Every single line of dialogue feels like it bears the entire weight of the plot, so I appreciated that.
From next episodes preview I got the idea that they may have been the first host in the park. Maybe some combo of beta testing the park function outside the towns and some sentinel function. Maybe in all the chaos they are helping humans because that's what they were always there to do.
The bullets may not be real, but it's a huge park and you could probably wonder off and die. So having a group of hosts to roam the park and keep an eye out is probably a good idea.
Arnold put the map in thier skulls which is an interesting clue that maybe he thought the freedom of wondering the park away from the rest of the hosts might lead to awakening?
The bullets may not be real, but it's a huge park and you could probably wonder off and die. So having a group of hosts to roam the park and keep an eye out is probably a good idea.
Arnold put the map in thier skulls which is an interesting clue that maybe he thought the freedom of wondering the park away from the rest of the hosts might lead to awakening?
I agree. I mentioned a few pages back that I thought they were one of the first to be "awake", but possibly kept it hush. Because it appears that they are trying to help some (humans and a few hosts) at this point. Not sure what the point of that would be aside from and escape plan and saving grace for a few characters.
Will mention some things from the preview so if you don't watch those then stop reading.
In the preview, they show Akecheta waking up in an exam room, similar to Maeve when she was first awakening. The question is when did he begin doing that, at some earlier date than Maeve - maybe decades - or only when the reveries were introduced. They also see him viewing a Delos vehicle abducting someone, probably another host, and show him walking around the post Wyatt/Delores/Teddy slaughtering of hosts and shooting of Arnold scene. He is also shown discovering the maze.
I suspect Akecheta has been woke for a long time and has dealt with that knowledge in the way a native American might have - he's become a spiritual leader for the tribe. He is not woke in the same way as Maeve and DElores, who initially wanted to get out of Westworld or dominate humans, but is aware of the "spirit world" and is living a life based on that knowledge. Just a weird, incomplete theory.
However, it is interesting that Stubbs voice commands did not work on them - and it was a tribesman, not Akecheta himself that they didn't work on. (*30 minutes posting pause here as I go down a wormhole reviewing Ghost Nation appearances and reviewed season 2 episode 1 transcript. DAMNIT*) Also interesting that when they capture Stubbs and Emily they've only captured humans and they let them all go.
None of it makes sense to me since it doesn't seem possible that Ford would be unaware of anything in the park whatsoever. I was reminded that delores said Arnold was still speaking to her and telling her she could help him - in a recent timeline I believe - so perhaps Arnold's consciousness is involved? Wouldnt make sense given 30+ years have passed.
In the preview, they show Akecheta waking up in an exam room, similar to Maeve when she was first awakening. The question is when did he begin doing that, at some earlier date than Maeve - maybe decades - or only when the reveries were introduced. They also see him viewing a Delos vehicle abducting someone, probably another host, and show him walking around the post Wyatt/Delores/Teddy slaughtering of hosts and shooting of Arnold scene. He is also shown discovering the maze.
I suspect Akecheta has been woke for a long time and has dealt with that knowledge in the way a native American might have - he's become a spiritual leader for the tribe. He is not woke in the same way as Maeve and DElores, who initially wanted to get out of Westworld or dominate humans, but is aware of the "spirit world" and is living a life based on that knowledge. Just a weird, incomplete theory.
However, it is interesting that Stubbs voice commands did not work on them - and it was a tribesman, not Akecheta himself that they didn't work on. (*30 minutes posting pause here as I go down a wormhole reviewing Ghost Nation appearances and reviewed season 2 episode 1 transcript. DAMNIT*) Also interesting that when they capture Stubbs and Emily they've only captured humans and they let them all go.
None of it makes sense to me since it doesn't seem possible that Ford would be unaware of anything in the park whatsoever. I was reminded that delores said Arnold was still speaking to her and telling her she could help him - in a recent timeline I believe - so perhaps Arnold's consciousness is involved? Wouldnt make sense given 30+ years have passed.
Uh, no. I did not compare Dolores to Darth Vader.LHIOB said:
Did anyone else get a Darth Vader feel when Delores entered the room and came down the ramp? There was smoke and her flowing dress just like Vader's cape in the opening scene of A New Hope.
Is there going to be a Dolores/Bernard "I am your mother!" scene?
I keep wanting the Old Bill host to somehow be in control of all host awakenings and somehow the adversary that throws Ford off his plans, maybe we can then compare him to the Emperor?
His verbal commands may not have worked because Stubbs was speaking English the same way that Maeve's didn't work because she was speaking English. This actually happened twice with Maeve, once with ghost nation and once in Shogun World (though I think this concept is especially stupid.)
I do think it's weird that Stubbs was captured so long ago and then seemingly randomly set free, though I expect we're going to get more answers on that front this week.
I do think it's weird that Stubbs was captured so long ago and then seemingly randomly set free, though I expect we're going to get more answers on that front this week.
I totally forgot about the maze in their scalps. That is going to be big.
Yes, the scalp maze looks like it's tattooed, doesn't it? And remember that Ghost Nation have a religion or spirit belief based on what the Delos techs look like when suited up. Ties in to my theory, not well formed for sure, that Akecheta was awoken long ago but it wasn't really a huge change to his story line/lifestyle, but has incorporated the maze he saw and the tech images into a religion for the tribe.Brian Earl Spilner said:
I totally forgot about the maze in their scalps. That is going to be big.
Was there only the one scalp? Or did we see another one?Brian Earl Spilner said:
I totally forgot about the maze in their scalps. That is going to be big.
I know for sure there was the one in Ep 1 of Season 2. But, I want to say we saw another in Season 1?
Man in Black scalps a "half indian" character who worked in the saloon, we see the maze on his scalp.bobinator said:Was there only the one scalp? Or did we see another one?Brian Earl Spilner said:
I totally forgot about the maze in their scalps. That is going to be big.
Delos security forces cut scalp off (to access memory unit) dead Ghost Nation member in episode 1 of season 2, they see maze on his scalp.
Not sure if there are others.
That's the one I couldn't remember, I remembered the one from season 1.
To me that indicates that they were created by someone else, perhaps Arnold himself?
To me that indicates that they were created by someone else, perhaps Arnold himself?
Again, this relies on something seen in the s2e7 trailer, which some don't like to watch, so putting in spoilersbobinator said:
That's the one I couldn't remember, I remembered the one from season 1.
To me that indicates that they were created by someone else, perhaps Arnold himself?
In the preview we see Akecheta walking up to a bar/table that has the maze on it, I think Arnold left it there prior to getting shot by Dolores. So I think Arnold created the maze shape, Akecheta becomes aware of it, and I think Akecheta begins tattooing it on others? Just a guess. Preview also shows Akecheta transforming in dress - from non painted and wearing crude clothing to the mostly painted figures we've most often seen when Ghost Nation appears. And I think it shows Akecheta looking out over the valley that later floods, based on peaks I see in the background
Too much time on this in past hour, need to work
Can't wait for this episode. Probably the most excited I've been for an episode all season. So much mystery, but you also know it directly ties into the main plot unlike all the stuff in Shogun World.
When they scalp that Ghost Nation member in s2e1, they get his memory unit and look at the death of that host that was recorded 11 days prior to Bernard's beach awakening. A few Ghost Nation members are getting killed by other hosts and Dolores personally kills the host whose memory unit is being accessed, calling him "friend" and stating some aren't meant for the valley beyond prior to killing him. Not sure if it has any importance, the purpose at the time seemed to be to reveal to the DElos security team that hosts were definitely off their loops.
bobinator said:
His verbal commands may not have worked because Stubbs was speaking English the same way that Maeve's didn't work because she was speaking English. This actually happened twice with Maeve, once with ghost nation and once in Shogun World (though I think this concept is especially stupid.)
I do think it's weird that Stubbs was captured so long ago and then seemingly randomly set free, though I expect we're going to get more answers on that front this week.
Stubbs was captured before Ford was shot and the hosts were freed. If the ghost nation hosts were operating as normal then a freeze all motor functions command in any language should work.
So, it's clear that something out of the ordinary was going on with ghost nation before Ford had fully executed his plan.
I do agree that the wrong language command issue seems to be a poor plot device. I think they invented it just so they could do the shogun world episode in subtitles.
It's also weird to me that Ford intimated that Delores was free before she shot him and yet he had her freeze in place with Teddy at the beach. You would think that if a host was truly sentient that a freeze command wouldn't work.
I don't think we can assume this even though it makes sense because we never saw anyone do a "freeze all motor functions" on any host that doesn't speak english so I didn't know for sure.Quote:
Stubbs was captured before Ford was shot and the hosts were freed. If the ghost nation hosts were operating as normal then a freeze all motor functions command in any language should work.
I think what he's saying is that Dolores was free the moment she decided to pull the trigger. So she wasn't before that. Though I'm fairly skeptical that that was actually the case. Dolores certainly doesn't seem very free most of the time.
It would be hard for me to believe that a member of the park security team would not be aware that commands in English would not work on Ghost Nation. He issued the commands expecting them to work.
Well if it was anyone else I would definitely agree, but Stubbs doesn't exactly seem to be aware of anything that's going on in the park, haha.
Ha - this is true. He has a very low pay grade, per Hale.bobinator said:
Well if it was anyone else I would definitely agree, but Stubbs doesn't exactly seem to be aware of anything that's going on in the park, haha.
But he asked for a raise in the last episode!
Sizemore said that the hosts in shogun world should have switched to English when around English speakers. So, based on that a command in any language should work. It just makes sense for safety precautions and accesibility for the guests.
As for Delores, I have always found the timeline leading up to Ford's death to be a bit clunky. It seemed like they were trying show Delores becoming sentient by finding the maze and actually fighting back against William.
I guess they were just showing that she was very close to completing the maze and that shooting Ford was the final step. I do agree that it doesn't seem to be completely clear how much control Ford has had this whole time.
As for Delores, I have always found the timeline leading up to Ford's death to be a bit clunky. It seemed like they were trying show Delores becoming sentient by finding the maze and actually fighting back against William.
I guess they were just showing that she was very close to completing the maze and that shooting Ford was the final step. I do agree that it doesn't seem to be completely clear how much control Ford has had this whole time.
The entire religion of the Ghost Nation as explained by Hector to Maeve (I think?) revolves around the maze and the techs in the hazmat suits, so it would seem that they were allowed to become sentient a long time ago. Since they were earlier in the conception of the park, and weren't part of the "normal" experience of rape, murder, and destruction by the guests, they don't have the urge for vengeance like Dolores does, as evidenced by the scene where the well-dressed event guests were taken to an undisclosed location and then allowed to escape. Wasn't there a line to Stubbs about a path or something?
No one should have to work to survive. Your right to life should not depend solely on your ability to produce capital.
Well he was able to subjugate Bernard's free will by getting into his control unit in the cradle.
Free will is more of a discussion for another board, but if you believe in God and free will then you probably think that free will could be overridden in some situations without completely destroying it. Ford is the closest thing we have to a god in this show (although he's not exactly one you would want probably)
Free will is more of a discussion for another board, but if you believe in God and free will then you probably think that free will could be overridden in some situations without completely destroying it. Ford is the closest thing we have to a god in this show (although he's not exactly one you would want probably)
More trailer breakdown so using spoilers
In season 1 william sent a naked Logan off into the wilderness, it wasn't clear what happened to him after that. In the season 2 trailer, we see Akecheta approaching a naked male collapsed in a desert like environment - I think it might be Logan. If true I think this may somehow tie to how Akecheta is awoken. The episode trailer also shows Akecheta getting exposed to Arnold's death scene and the maze is also at that scene, that was all a long time ago.
Other Ghost World tribesmen refer to Akecheta as "the first of us", could be a reference to first modern host or to the first awoken, I believe the latter and all of Ghost Nation may be awoke in their own special way
In season 1 william sent a naked Logan off into the wilderness, it wasn't clear what happened to him after that. In the season 2 trailer, we see Akecheta approaching a naked male collapsed in a desert like environment - I think it might be Logan. If true I think this may somehow tie to how Akecheta is awoken. The episode trailer also shows Akecheta getting exposed to Arnold's death scene and the maze is also at that scene, that was all a long time ago.
Other Ghost World tribesmen refer to Akecheta as "the first of us", could be a reference to first modern host or to the first awoken, I believe the latter and all of Ghost Nation may be awoke in their own special way
I also think we haven't seen the end of Logan, I like that prediction
Yeah, I dig this.
User name... does not check out.
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So I went back and watched the trailer and there's no question that's who that is. Good find.
Also, HBO put out a trailer for the rest of the season earlier this week. I don't want to post the video in case some folks don't want to see it, but here's the link.
But holy hell, there's some crazy stuff in that trailer.
Also, HBO put out a trailer for the rest of the season earlier this week. I don't want to post the video in case some folks don't want to see it, but here's the link.
But holy hell, there's some crazy stuff in that trailer.
Holy **** on that trailer - no time today to break it down like I was doing yesterday, which is probably a good thing, but I saw a lot of interesting images.
On Logan, it's a fun theory but probably unlikely what I was predicting (how it impacts Akecheta, etc) comes to fruition, just overthinking it all yesterday - the show really promotes that. In the trailer you just posted I see Ghost Nation leading all the hosts as if they were all hostages, can't figure that out but assume they are heading to the valley and the flood event. But also saw a William/Dolores showdown (I think I know how that goes) and Bernard having.....issues.
On Logan, it's a fun theory but probably unlikely what I was predicting (how it impacts Akecheta, etc) comes to fruition, just overthinking it all yesterday - the show really promotes that. In the trailer you just posted I see Ghost Nation leading all the hosts as if they were all hostages, can't figure that out but assume they are heading to the valley and the flood event. But also saw a William/Dolores showdown (I think I know how that goes) and Bernard having.....issues.
Yeah, holy sh*t indeed. So many awesome images. When did that air? I completely missed it.
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