There's no guarantee that the flashback they showed us is what Bernard was thinking about. They certainly tried to make it look that way, but they tried to trick us with similar flashbacks in Season 1.

You could hear Charlotte saying something like "he keeps slipping away..." as it was happening, but yeah, it's certainly not definitive, but very little on this show ever is.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I don't know, I still don't see the connection to William. Just because she's a brunette and knows about the parks is not enough for me to even make a connection there. And in some sense makes the world feel small.

We don't need every character to be related.

JMO.

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haha ok star wars. The connection is implied with what TCTTS stated earlier. Besides the fact that the "Previously On Westworld' scene specifically pointed out Williams daughter there's also that William's mom killed herself (possibly as a result of finding out William's obsession with robots) and that could easily carry over to Emily/Grace's aversion to them as an adult.

Whether you want the character to be related or not, is kinda irrelevant. Context clues tells us she isn't just some random guest. She's important to somebody.

I mean, I don't like it in Star Wars either. Also, did you miss my follow-up post?

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This was someone she thought she loved, and then she sees who he's become and it kind of disillusioned her. It's worth noting that as far as we know Dolores hasn't had any meaningful interaction with any 'good' humans right? She doesn't really have any reason to think that there is any good in anyone.

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I still think we can consider the original Arnold to be "good," and their early interactions should have given her to have insight into the decent things about humans like the love of a father for a child.

True, I didn't think of Arnold, but even he ultimately killed himself by controlling Dolores and making her shoot him in the head, which is also something she remembers now.

Yea just pointing out the additional items not in your followup.

bobinator said:

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Yeah... the attack on the fort itself was really annoying. There's no way around it. Especially because, among other things, we've already seen a helicopter in the park.

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That. Why not use air assets? Drones?

New World Ag said:

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bobinator said:

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Yeah... the attack on the fort itself was really annoying. There's no way around it. Especially because, among other things, we've already seen a helicopter in the park.

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That. Why not use air assets? Drones?

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That battle was pre outside help, right? At that point Delos isn't lifting a finger, and anybody with a helicopter is presumably using it to get off crazy robot island.

Yeah, this battle is relatively shortly after the revolution began. And there are a few perfectly good reasons that the tac team would have a pretty bad plan. They might not know how many hosts there are there (a lot of the systems are offline), they might not know exactly what they're capable of (they haven't seen what happened at the gala yet, though Charlotte has and you'd think she'd share that critical information.)

So there are a lot of reasons why they wouldn't have a great plan, but it's not enough to explain why they come up with the worst plan imaginable. And even if you wipe all that away with excuses about how they didn't know what the hosts were capable of, you'd think after the first couple of people got shot in the head they'd think "okay, bad plan, let's regroup."

The only thing I've come up with to explain this way this morning is that MAYBE the first response tac teams are also hosts controlled by some sort of backup system. That would explain why Charlotte doesn't seem all that concerned with their lives.

Yeah, but there's a difference in not caring and actively putting other people in harm's way right?

Them being hosts is the only thing I can think of though that makes some sense. For one, instead of having to pay money to have a tactical team around all the time, you could just build them and keep them in storage until they're ever needed. Also, whoever was in charge of programing them probably wouldn't have ever considered that the hosts would be as organized as they are so they'd probably expect the difference in weapons technology to be enough to make sure that they killed everyone so that would explain why their attack strategy is so dumb.

But that's also a really big reach since we haven't been given any reason to think they're not human, and it's a major reach to think that the plan in the event of a robot uprising was more robots with weapons.

Charlotte does seem to be running the show, so I could see her just using the rest of the team as a distraction.

Again, I think you can explain it as the humans not being ready for what the hosts were capable of. And actually, just one host, because without Delores the other hosts probably go with a predictable response and do get mowed down by the humans.

amercer said:

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Again, I think you can explain it as the humans not being ready for what the hosts were capable of. And actually, just one host, because without Delores the other hosts probably go with a predictable response and do get mowed down by the humans.

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That's kind of what I'm getting at though. Even if that's the case and we make all the excuses we can possibly come up with, it's still a horrible plan.

It's not like ruining the show or anything, and overall I thought last night's episode was great, but great things can still have bad parts, and that part was bad.

The fort battle was definitely anticlimactic. The infiltration of the base and removal of Abernathy had zero suspense to it. That whole scene did feel a little off.

It felt like the early days of Game of Thrones, when they'd try a similar-ish, big action set piece. Those early GoT action sequences always felt a little off as well. Hopefully Westworld will find its footing in that regard just the same.

Both great points! There is so little humor on this show that the altruistic gun fighter was hilarious. I was dying at the "I can escort you!" line.

Louis Herthum is the actor playing Peter Abernathy and I agree that he had a banner episode last night. I thought he was brilliant. His glitchiness is a lot harder to act than a lot of the others we've seen since there are so many vocal cues.

I have a question I just thought of though, was Meave/Hector/Sizemore running into Armistice/Felix/whatever by accident or was that all planned? That part confused me a bit.

TCTTS said:

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It felt like the early days of Game of Thrones, when they'd try a similar-ish, big action set piece. Those early GoT action sequences always felt a little off as well. Hopefully Westworld will find its footing in that regard just the same.

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You mean like the ones where the entire battle took place off-screen and we only saw the aftermath?

God, I hated that in the first two seasons.

I assumed it was by chance. I thought they were all dead after last season.

The battle scene didn't bother me that much... Any action that looks unrealistic in this show I just chalk up mentally to "well, they are robots".

As far as the force they brought with them -- it was only the small group that Charlotte was able to snag from the larger group that is attempting to get the humans/hostages out... You also have to realize there's a tactical team inside the actual real-world facility... And that all of this is a fraction of the capable force that is being held back until they get the information they want (Abernathy) out.

That, and when they were estimating I'm sure they only took into account the confederacy -- not the addition of Dolores' men as well as the tactical planting of the explosives.

They were headed on what they believed to be a surprise assault with assault weapons and motorized transport on 20 or so hosts.

Also take into account that Charlotte doesn't want more people to know about her agenda than absolutely necessary.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Yeah, that was hilarious. Steven Ogg has been great in both The Walking Dead and this. Niche characters, but really enjoy his work on them.

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And Better Call Saul

I like the Elsie and Ghost Nation discussions up above, I do wonder if the Ghost Nation is misdirection by the directors but it's fun to think about. It is weird they took Stubbs in Season 1 and now he is back in Season 2 - he's either a host now or has a hidden agenda. SOMETHING had to happen after his abduction, and there has been no explanation. And targeting Sizemore is interesting as well. AND while we were clearly shown Bernard remembering his strangling of Elsie I don't recall a dead body, perhaps he overcame his programming during that and is working with her somehow. Hard to piece it all together in a believable fashion but certainly could be talked through.

Knowing they were renewed for season 3 definitely impacts my thinking of how this season will go and the overall arc, it's similar to Better Call Saul for me (I only watch these series however). They both, but especially Saul, seem like stories that can't drag on too long without some type of resolution.

AgEng06 said:

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That's not exactly what happens. She sees them about to attack the fort, she even says out-loud that that's what they're about to do. She asks the guy in charge of the team if they're attacking the fort and he said yes that their first target.

She then pulls aside one car and a few men with her. Like you said, she doesn't tell them what she's doing. When we see her car come up the elevator and drive off, we see them unloading all kinds of boxes, presumably of guns.

So their reason to attack this fort is because they're starting the process of clearing the hosts in the park, so their goal is kill as many hosts as possible presumably while not getting themselves killed. They're not part of this "we have to get Abernathy out" plan. And their plan is to march on the fort across an open field?

And they do know there are a lot of men there, even not accounting for Dolores' people, there are enough in there that if you go for a direct frontal assault you're going to get some people killed. Remember that Dolores' whole point of going to that fort was because there are a lot of men there.

And then, like I said, even if you wipe all that away and say "well this particularly tac team has no communication and doesn't know what the hosts are capable of" they still should have pulled back and rethought their plan once they started getting picked off and they could see how many people were defending the fort.

It just wasn't good. It doesn't ruin anything, but it's a little disappointing for a show that otherwise has spent so much attention on things like this.

BTW, this was such an awesome opening song.

One page back.

Well *****

Didn't Theresa have an accent? The woman last night definitely did not.

Also, the tiger proves that whatever we saw in the opening last night is happening simultaneously with the latest timeline.

Agree on both counts. But I feel like they definitely wanted the audience to notice similarities. Maybe they're just ****ing with us.