The Hawks aren't matching the Knicks offer to Hardaway. Good news for the Spurs since the Knicks were a team showing interest in Simmons.

Gay has been cleared by doctors to play.

Guitarsoup said:

---

Yes, you coming on here a few times on each page to tell us how much better your Warriors are than the Spurs does seem to be part of this thread for some reason.

The mental gymnastics to prove it in multiple ways when everyone already agrees on that is amazing.

If you took the Spurs best player and the Heat's best player in 2014, (probably Tony and LeBron before the Finals) everyone would pick the Heat 10 times out of 10, too. Who gives a F? It is a ridiculous situation that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the team.

In the past 30 years, I can't think of a single time when a team lost their best player for the entire playoffs and still won the title. A game here and there? Sure. The whole thing? Nope. It's pretty much a given that if your best player goes down, the season is over. So why the ridiculous hypotheticals to tell us what we already know - the Warriors are good.

Games aren't played in a vacuum of "is guy 2 better than guy 2 and guy 3 better than guy 3?" If the Spurs bring back the squad, plus add Rudy Gay, will it be enough to beat a healthy Warriors? Probably not. Will the team be better than last year? Probably. No blockbuster, but the Spurs added a guy who very well might be their #2 scoring option while dismantling their team. That's a win.

---

My Warriors? Never watched a Golden State game until starting three years ago. I'm just a casual 'bandwagon' NBA guy who generally enjoys watching most good/great teams. Loved watching the Spurs beat the crap out of the Heat in the Finals a few years ago with some of the most beautiful offensive display of basketball that I'd ever seen.

I didn't think it was a 'ridiculous' hypothetical at all. Some of the discussion on this thread seemed to be centered around 'Can the Spurs win an NBA title with LMA as their #2 guy?' Can the Spurs win an NBA title relying on a PG rotation of Mills, Murray, aging Parker, etc?

Pumpkinhead said:

---

Ag Natural said:

---

How bout if Kawhi is healthy and Durant breaks his foot again? I'll take the Spurs in that scenario which even more likely than each team losing a star.

---

I merely used that analogy because the conservation seemed to be about the quality of the supporting cast around Kawhi.

---

The Warriors have 2 of the 6 best players in the game
That's the main difference between them and the next couple teams.

The supporting casts are fairly equal aside from that.

Ag Natural said:

---

Pumpkinhead said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

Quote:

---

If You remove the best player from the Spurs and remove the best player from the Warriors

---

If your aunt had nuts, she'd be your uncle. We get it, the Warriors built a super team.

---

Well isn't that what part of the conversation is about on this thread? Whether the Spurs shoulda, coulda, mighta done something different this offseason to compete vs Warriors? Whether Spurs can compete with LMA as the 'second best player'? Seems like that is what the media often likes to talk about.

---

The media is often dumber than fans. I listen to a lot of basketball analysis and it's quite often flat wrong. They never account acknowlege chemistry, coaching and luck. When the favorite wins they act like it was preordained. The reality is the most talented team on paper loses all the time.

The Spurs have been a contender for 20 straight years. They've won 5 titles, been to 6 finals, and 9 WCFs and were not the preseason favorite in any of those years. Hell, they've only lost in the first round 4 times in 20 years. No organization does a better job of putting themselves in position to make a run and yet plenty of experts continue to count them out.

---

You know Zach Lowe on ESPN seems to agree with you ha ha.

I like listening to the 'Lowe Post' podcasts. Lowe seems to be regarded as one of the better basketball analysts guys out there.

Here was his latest from just a couple of days ago discussing Free Agency 'Winners and Losers'.

And Lowe mentioned how often he is wrong about the Spurs, that he thought they weregoing to take a significant dip last season but then there they were winning 60 games and being a major playoff contender again.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19897425

I listen to Lowe as well. He's one of the more x and o savvy media guys for sure. What's ironic though is I still don't like his analysis. He basically just says I don't understand what they are doing but I've been wrong so many times that I've decided to just trust in Pop. The truth is what the Spurs routinely do is pretty unorthodox and it's hard to replicate. It's also hard to analyze.

Hanga not coming over.

superunknown said:

---

Hanga not coming over.

---

I imagine this definitely means we're keeping Simmons.

Quote:

---

I didn't think it was a 'ridiculous' hypothetical at all.

---

The chances that the best player on each team is out for the playoffs is extremely small.

It is definitely a ridiculous hypothetical. The Spurs specifically are built to be a team. Golden State pretty much is as well.

The so trying to compare how they would play if one of the cogs is taken out of the machine is dumb because the machine wasn't built to work that way. If you take out the camshaft, yeah, I bet my engine doesn't run very well.

You have to evaluate how a team is going to come together and how they will play when it matters. Does it matter how good Harden and Paul are together in the regular season if Harden is going to go 2-11 with 12 turnovers in elimination games?

So say the Spurs use the Room for Dedmon and Lee gets a Vet Min, then they resign Simmons, Manu and Gasol. Basically add a rookie combo and Rudy Gay. That's an upgrade to a team that pushed GSW pretty well until that cheapshot by Zaza and won 60 games.

But how will the Spurs play as a team? Gay's never been on a decent team, so it will be tough to say. He's already been cleared by doctors to play, so I assume he will be in game shape by November.

But Gay gives the Spurs a legit SF/PF combo to play more small ball, but the Spurs will be in the unique situation where they can play small ball without giving up height or length. Since Simmons can create some and Kawhi did pretty well running the offense after Parker went out, expect some super long smallball lineups with LMA or Gasol at post, Gay at PF and Kawhi at point, then pick two from Simmons/Manu/Green/Murray at wing. They can be a hugely great defensive and offensive team with a lineup like that, even though Pop hates it. And everyone will be 6'5 or taller with a wingspan of 6'9 or better. That's pretty great.

The main thing the Spurs will have this year is more flexibility. They will have the bodies to go big or small.

Imagine a big lineup with:
Gasol
LMA
Gay
Simmons
Kawhi

That's going to be hard to guard. Other than Simmons, all are pretty smart veteran players. And all can play both ways.

Kawhi is working out with Kobe again this summer. Wish he could get reps with Magic, too.

West Texan said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

Games aren't played in a vacuum of "is guy 2 better than guy 2 and guy 3 better than guy 3?" If the Spurs bring back the squad, plus add Rudy Gay, will it be enough to beat a healthy Warriors? Probably not. Will the team be better than last year? Probably. No blockbuster, but the Spurs added a guy who very well might be their #2 scoring option while not dismantling their team. That's a win.

---

This last paragraph is really all you needed to say. Basketball isn't 5 different 1 on 1 matchups out there. There's only one ball and only one person can score at a time. Does it help to have 5 supremely talented scorers on the floor? Of course, but they can't all score at once. It's about creating the best opportunities to score, which is why the Spurs were able to beat them during the regular season and were up big before Kawhi went out. We might not be any closer to beating the warriors in a series, but you don't have to out talent teams to beat them.

---

All about match ups and advantages. The 2007 Mavs won 67 games and had a ton of talent. Ask Baron Davis if he cared.

Simmons value keeps looking lower and lower based on recent signings. Starting to look as if Spurs won't need to pay him 10 million per year.

Though the Nets worry me now that Otto Porters offer was matched by Washington. There's not much left at the 2/3 in the FA market and they've been known to do dumb things.

Guitarsoup said:

---

Quote:

---

I didn't think it was a 'ridiculous' hypothetical at all.

---

The chances that the best player on each team is out for the playoffs is extremely small.

It is definitely a ridiculous hypothetical. The Spurs specifically are built to be a team. Golden State pretty much is as well.

The so trying to compare how they would play if one of the cogs is taken out of the machine is dumb because the machine wasn't built to work that way. If you take out the camshaft, yeah, I bet my engine doesn't run very well.

You have to evaluate how a team is going to come together and how they will play when it matters. Does it matter how good Harden and Paul are together in the regular season if Harden is going to go 2-11 with 12 turnovers in elimination games?

So say the Spurs use the Room for Dedmon and Lee gets a Vet Min, then they resign Simmons, Manu and Gasol. Basically add a rookie combo and Rudy Gay. That's an upgrade to a team that pushed GSW pretty well until that cheapshot by Zaza and won 60 games.

But how will the Spurs play as a team? Gay's never been on a decent team, so it will be tough to say. He's already been cleared by doctors to play, so I assume he will be in game shape by November.

But Gay gives the Spurs a legit SF/PF combo to play more small ball, but the Spurs will be in the unique situation where they can play small ball without giving up height or length. Since Simmons can create some and Kawhi did pretty well running the offense after Parker went out, expect some super long smallball lineups with LMA or Gasol at post, Gay at PF and Kawhi at point, then pick two from Simmons/Manu/Green/Murray at wing. They can be a hugely great defensive and offensive team with a lineup like that, even though Pop hates it. And everyone will be 6'5 or taller with a wingspan of 6'9 or better. That's pretty great.

The main thing the Spurs will have this year is more flexibility. They will have the bodies to go big or small.

Imagine a big lineup with:
Gasol
LMA
Gay
Simmons
Kawhi

That's going to be hard to guard. Other than Simmons, all are pretty smart veteran players. And all can play both ways.

Kawhi is working out with Kobe again this summer. Wish he could get reps with Magic, too.

---

We'll find out how it goes. To me (I'll admit just a casual fan analysis), the Spurs look potentially weaker than they were last season. While the degree of difficulty of the average team in the West has seemed to increase.

At least it is shaping up to be a fun regular season to watch, with all the changes that took place. Like you said, besides seeing if the Spurs can keep doing what they've generally done, it will be fascinating to see how 'experiments' at places like Houston, OKC, Minny, where some major changes occurred will work out.

In what way are they weaker? Parker wasn't setting the world on fire last year until the playoffs. You're either trolling or didn't watch them much at all.

With Gay in the fold and the old crew back, they'll have less new parts to integrate than any time in the last several years. That's a big deal.

And just watch how much they roll with no traditional PG. It's gonna happen a lot.

flashplayer said:

---

Simmons value keeps looking lower and lower based on recent signings. Starting to look as if Spurs won't need to pay him 10 million per year.

Though the Nets worry me now that Otto Porters offer was matched by Washington. There's not much left at the 2/3 in the FA market and they've been known to do dumb things.

---

If we can get through this off-season re-signing Flying J after adding Rudy, that's a freaking win.

The Nets are a little worrisome for sure. Simmons has worked out for them in the past. I'm not sure if that's a plus or minus on their relationship.

All our vets got a year older (Gasol, Manu, Tony, Lee) with one coming off a potentially career ender. This on a team that already got banged up badly in the playoffs. Kawhi who wore down in the playoffs with increased use, will be asked to carry even more of a load this year by needing to be a creator and ball handler. Hard to do all that and still be a shutdown defense even for Superman Kawhi.

Green has been slowly getting worse at both ends (don't care what defense award they gave him), he is slowly regressing on the eyeball test. LMA is disgruntled and has said publicly he has no desire to play center. Murray thus far through summer league hasn't looked like he has improved his shot much if any. Mills looked pretty awful once TP went down, running the point and is still more of a shooter than a PG. Gay had one of the most catastrophic injuries you can have and even when healthy hasn't ever been all that efficient. Simmons has his money and could easily regress a bit closer to his regular season mean. Bertrans, Anderson, White/Forbes are still major unknowns.

I'm certainly not saying all this will happen, but it is all in the realm of realistic. Certainly as much as having Gay get back to form and becoming an efficient small ball player and Kawhi all of a sudden becoming magic Johnson at running the point.

This team could all stay healthy, gel well, Kawhi could be a great point guard and facilitator, and the Spurs could be better than last year. But I think odds are higher that they slip a little personally, especially with the West getting tougher. I think they are a 3 seed when all is said and done. Either way, I don't think they closed the gap at all with GSW. I actually think it grew. I do like that they should have some cap space next year, when very few good teams will. I think they need to be aggressive and really try to find a sidekick for Kawhi at all costs next off-season of one doesn't emerge this year.

I know I'm in the minority on that one. Simmons was way more effective a defender in the playoffs and Kawhi often took over Danny's man when they got hot. Defense is much more subjective, but I think he has slipped a bit. He used to really bother PGs with his length, but it's been a while since he had had a real impact there in the playoffs, imo.

He measurably has declined on offense. Stats clearly show that. He has shot below 40% the last two seasons.

That's hilarious! Still can't believe CP3 chose Pringles over Pop.

It was a freak deal, no doubt and unfortunately did it 3 times.. What injuries classify as wearing down, you can classify about anything as a freak injury? Call it whatever you want, but putting more and more on Kawhi as the rest of the roster ages is a tough ask, especially without a viable PG. He as already Michael Jordan part 2. We just need to find him his Pippen equivalent and give him a real shot.

So after watching several on the summer league games, it finally clicked with me who Derrick White reminds me of, and it's our favorite Italian Marco Belinelli. Really good shooter, good instincts on offense and has a nose for the backdoor cut, sneaky athlete that can finish at the rim, can create space and get off a jumper at any moment, but not quite quick enough to turn the corner against most defenders. Bell was a better passer and White is a better ball handler, but I think he's a guy that will find a way to contribute sooner than later.

I really like what I'm seeing of White too. He's not there defensively. He looked pretty lost on that side at times. But I think he can get there.

That's an interesting comparison. I don't think his shooting is there like Bellis but it's alright. It would be great if he was an inch or two taller.

You're correct the Spurs have questions. Every team outside of GSW has some major unknowns. If you want to assume that all the Spurs vets will get older and slower and all the young guys will not get better then so be it.

This could be a real disaster when every other team gets career years out of everyone on their rosters.

I'm predicting the 3 seed if you didn't read that part.....is that really a major disaster?

Enzo The Baker said:

---

I really like what I'm seeing of White too. He's not there defensively. He looked pretty lost on that side at times. But I think he can get there.

That's an interesting comparison. I don't think his shooting is there like Bellis but it's alright. It would be great if he was an inch or two taller.

---

Beli was also an NBA vet when he was playing for us, and we're watching white in his first attempt ever against pro level competition. His shooting will come, he's got great form and he'll figure out rotations better as he gets more experience and more time being coached by Pop. As far as his height, he and Marco are both listed at 6'5".

GatorAg03 said:

---

I'm predicting the 3 seed if you didn't read that part.....is that really a major disaster?

---

I thought a couple pages ago, you said the Spurs had been surpassed by OKC, Minn and Houston.

Guitarsoup said:

---

Quote:

---

It was a freak deal, no doubt and unfortunately did it 3 times.. What injuries classify as wearing down, you can classify about anything as a freak injury?

---

It isn't me. The entire world that has ever played sports knows that spraining an ankle by landing on someone else's foot is a freak injury, not a wearing down injury.

---

Yep 100%. Tony's injury was a wearing down. Rudy Gays was a wearing down.

Torn anything is typically a wearing down / fatigue related injury. Sprains are not.