*****Spurs 2017 Offseason Thread*****

181,053 Views | 1963 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by LawHall88
Ulrich
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DSAg44 said:

Murray dribbles like he's playing on the playground...way too high.

He also dribbles too far away from his body. He's trying to bait defenders into reaching for it so he can go past, unfortunately he's baiting them into doing something that works.
Guitarsoup
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CoJo to Pacers
Ag Natural
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Yep, CoJo moving today and Baynes is signing with Boston. Ex-Spurs all over the place.

Man it sure would be nice to have Joseph right now.
Guitarsoup
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Yeah, but he hasn't really shown he is a better player than Patty, especially for the 4y30mm deal he signed two years ago. Resigning him would have prevented us from getting LMA.
flashplayer
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Meh, may be the t sip connection but I never cared much for Cory. Was glad to see the Spurs part ways with him. He's just too limited on offense for what little he brings on D. He always got killed in switches with bigger guys. Not the type of player to spend that kind of money on in today's NBA.
tbirdspur2010
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Guitarsoup said:


Quote:

Duncan, Kawhi, Parker were damn close to elite during that run.
No. No they were not.

Kawhi averaged 14.3 and 6.7 for the playoffs.
Parker averaged 17.4 and 4.8 for the playoffs.
Duncan averaged 16.3 and 9.2 for the playoffs.

Kawhi didn't even score in double digits in 2/5 Finals games.

No one on the Spurs was elite at that point. Kawhi showed flashes, but he wasn't a go to player. Parker got shut down by OKC in the WCF.

The Spurs won by playing supreme team basketball. There was no goto scorer or elite player. There was a great team. It was the beautiful game.


Indeed.
tbirdspur2010
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flashplayer said:

Meh, may be the t sip connection but I never cared much for Cory. Was glad to see the Spurs part ways with him. He's just too limited on offense for what little he brings on D. He always got killed in switches with bigger guys. Not the type of player to spend that kind of money on in today's NBA.


CoJo is the only sip player I have ever rooted for in the NBA. He won me over after his "Taek da Plej" dunk in a game we lost in the 2014 WCF. Seemed our team fed off that swagger the rest of the title run.
Guitarsoup
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Baynes turned down a 6.5mm player option and then took 4.1mm. Granted, playing for the Celtics instead of Detroit may be worth 2.5mm, but I would be firing my agent right about now.
Ag Natural
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flashplayer said:

Meh, may be the t sip connection but I never cared much for Cory. Was glad to see the Spurs part ways with him. He's just too limited on offense for what little he brings on D. He always got killed in switches with bigger guys. Not the type of player to spend that kind of money on in today's NBA.


Corey has improved quite a bit. There were several Toronto playoff games where was easily their best player. Granted, Lowrie was out. But he is a very tenacious player and his offensive game is much better than it was in SA.
flashplayer
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1st half impressions of summer league game tonight:

Murray - continues to be great at penetrating. Tonight very sloppy at passing from the lane most the time, and AWFUL at finishing at the rim. He had a couple ugly layups that dropped in which looked like they were too hard / lucky. He continues to look like a strong rebounder when in position. Some of his passes are too weak on the drive. Those will get stolen by NBA defenses. Disappointing showing for a 2nd year guy in the 4th summer league game. Really needs to show something soon.

Forbes - On D he is very slow laterally and looks lost at times. Still looks like a fringe NBA player who needs some more time in Austin, but he's shown some flashes of awesomeness on offense, especially off screens and even the dribble. He was careless with the ball tonight and threw it away almost unforced a couple times.

Whittington - this guy fouls way too much. Just flat awful on D. He'd foul out in about 8 minutes if they called half the obvious fouls on him. He's a really good pick and roll player though. Gets pushed around easy underneath and missed on about 3 easy rebounds

Lalanne - looks more like an NBA player than any other big on the team tonight. Plays smart, patient with the ball, good hands, moves well laterally on D, and usually in good rebounding position even though he only grabbed 1.

Davis Bertans - he did Davis things. Hit a couple nice shots, sneaky good on D with a good block. Would prefer they shut him down because he's clearly a rotation player at a position of need. If anything would like to see him handle the ball more and not settle for the Matt Bonner-setup at the 3 pt line and make an awkward move to the basket once in a blue moon.

Hanlan showed a couple good offensive moves, but he's a couple years from being NBA ready. Didn't do much else.

No one else did anything of note.
2008and1
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flashplayer said:

Meh, may be the t sip connection but I never cared much for Cory. Was glad to see the Spurs part ways with him. He's just too limited on offense for what little he brings on D. He always got killed in switches with bigger guys. Not the type of player to spend that kind of money on in today's NBA.


CoJo's dunk on Ibaka at the end of a blow-out loss to OKC in Game 4 of the 2014 WCF showed the team you can score on Ibaka if you're aggressive in the paint. I truly believe that dunk changed the mindset of the team and for that Joseph is alright in my book.

Ag Natural
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Forbes has easily been the best player in summer league. He's up over 30 pts again and playing with a ton of confidence. The guy did average over 23 a game in his D LEAGUE assignments last season. He may have a little something.
West Texan
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Man I love David Bertans. He ain't no ***** and doesn't back down to anyone. Just stood toe to toe with Alex Poythres who looks like he'd kill him.
flashplayer
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Ag Natural said:

Forbes has easily been the best player in summer league. He's up over 30 pts again and playing with a ton of confidence. The guy did average over 23 a game in his D LEAGUE assignments last season. He may have a little something.


He's proven he can score. He still plays sloppy defense and is not great at handling the ball or passing. I still think he's a fringe NBA player. If he can make some of these 2-3 dribble moves translate to the big leagues, he might have something to hang his hat on.
flashplayer
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West Texan said:

Man I love David Bertans. He ain't no ***** and doesn't back down to anyone. Just stood toe to toe with Alex Poythres who looks like he'd kill him.
Davis looks like a Russian gangster. I wouldn't mess with that dude.
Guitarsoup
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Another option off the board. Hoping we could get someone like him fro the Room.
tbirdspur2010
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West Texan said:

Man I love David Bertans. He ain't no ***** and doesn't back down to anyone. Just stood toe to toe with Alex Poythres who looks like he'd kill him.


Bertans is our enforcer!
Ulrich
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I concur on Bertans. He is one odd looking MF and you may whip him in the court, but I'm pretty sure he'd cut your fingers off in a poorly lit basement by the next morning. He's one of my favorites, loved it last year in about his fifth game as a rookie when he got ejected for shoving someone twice his size while backing up a teammate.
Ulrich
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Also, Forbes is absolutely tearing it up as a scorer, but his defense and passing aren't much good. TBH he looks like he's auditioning for someone else to pick him up.

Murray was still pretty bad offensively yesterday.

Love how the spurs brought 16 assistant coaches to Vegas. One of those quiet innovations.

Lots of agents seemed to think every free agent was going to get a huge contract this year, but most of them miscalculated. Too many teams already over the cap, I think.
GatorAg03
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There also will be alot more potential free agents next year than previously thought with alot of players taking one year deals this off-season or looking like they may opt out.

Spurs should be one of the few contenders with ample cap space, depending on how free agency finishes out. Also, should know much more about Murray and Bertrans by this time next year and their potential going forward.

I was hoping for a bit more this off-season, but competition was fierce, while next year might be the time to strike with less competition. I don't think they closed the gap with GSW at all but are in a decent position to do so next year.
Ulrich
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That's a good point, although between all the one year and player option deals I think next year will be pretty crowded, too.
Guitarsoup
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Quick cap rundown for next summer.


Bullets Wizards were previously ready to make some moves, but Otto, Beal, Wall and Mahinmi take up 87% of the cap by themselves. Raptors had the ability to make big moves, but they are at the cap with just Ibaka, Lowry, DeRosen and Valanciaus. Portland is in terrible, terrible shape. Lillard, Crabbe, McCollum, Turner, Harkless and Leonard has them 10% over the cap. No one other than Dame and maybe McCollum are difference makers.

Phoenix is in good shape, despite some poor contracts. Tyson and Dudley are their worst contracts and both expire in 2019. Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Josh Jackson only cost them about 40mm combined.

Philly needs to show some promise this year and they are the team to worry about. Embiid is the only core player coming off his rookie contract (cap hold of just 18mm) and everyone else is on rookie deals except Bayless. Reddick and Amir are both 1y deals.

Orlando has almost 70mm/year tied up in Byimbo, Fortiner, Vucevic, Ross and Augustin.

OKC either has no cap space, or all the cap space in the world. Russ, Paul George and Kanter can all walk next summer. If they walk, even with cap space, who cares? No one is signing in OKC to play with Roberson and Adams.

Don't know what is happening with Melo this year, but the Knicks have 55mm locked up in Noah, Hardaway, Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas. Ouch.

NOLA has 50mm tied into Brow+Jrue with Cousins a FA. Gonna have no cap room unless DeMarcus Boogies.

Minnesota won't have cap space next year. Their core 5 are ~75mm + Wiggins has to be resigned.

Milwaukee will only have the MLE.

Miami = Tyler Johnson+Whiteside+Goran+James Johnson+Waiters+KellyO = 100% of the cap.

Memphis. I think they start slow and blow it up. Great job dropping 100mm on Chandler Parsons' glass knees. Conley+Gasol+Parsons=80mm. I think Gasol gets moved. Gasol for LMA? Unite the Gasols and have the Torres Gemelos? Sign me up.

Lakers have Julius Randle and Brook Lopez as FAs and have Deng's bad contract. Other than that, most deals they have are reasonable.

Clippers won't have max room even after DeAndre Jordan opts out to sign with the Spurs. They could move things along for both teams by trading DJ for LMA.

Pacers can have max room. Come play with Dipo, Sabonis and Lance Stephenson!

Rockets have used about 80% of the cap before they resign Chris Paul, Trevor Ariza and Clint Capela.

Golden State is way over the luxury tax and will have 5-6 FAs.

Detroit is at 100% of the cap before trying to resign Avery Bradley. Lot of money for a 40 win team in a historically weak conference

Denver could be a player. Wilson Chandler and Darrel Arthur can opt out of their contracts and the only non-rookie contracts they will have are Millsap and Faried. Gary Harris and Will Barton will need to be resigned, though.

Dallas can have max room. Wes Matthews can opt out and they will only have Harrison Barnes (24m) and Dwight Powell (9m) on contracts over 5m. They will be a player next summer. But I think Harrison Barnes, Smith and a 95 year old Dirk isn't quite as exciting to play with as 2018 MVP Kawhi Leonard.

Cleveland is interesting. If Bron stays, they obviously don't have any room. But Bron could walk so he could play with Kawhi and DeAndre and Cleveland still doesn't have much room due to Love/Kyrie/Tristan/JR Smith/Korver's contracts.

Chicago will have lots of space. Robin Lopez is the only player making more than 8mm at 14mm. DWade and Zach Levine will be FAs.

Charlotte has 62mm tied up in Batum, Dwightmare, and Marvin Williams. They have another 46mm in Kemba/Zeller/Lamb/MKG.

Brooklyn can have lots of cap space, despite 31mm tied into Mozgov and DeMarre.

Boston's summer was this year. Next year have to resign Smart/Thomas and they are over the cap even with their small cap holds.

Finally, ATL can have cap space. But the pitch to play with Schroeder, Bazemore and Plumlee will be tough.

So teams with easy cap space:
Spurs (assuming opt outs by Green/LMA/Gay)
Bulls
Dallas
Brooklyn

Going to be a buyer's market for the Spurs who will have the best star by far.
Iowaggie
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Guitarsoup
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Meh
Ag Natural
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Looks like we have Dedmon's replacement
FTAG 2000
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Guitarsoup said:

Quick cap rundown for next summer.


Bullets Wizards were previously ready to make some moves, but Otto, Beal, Wall and Mahinmi take up 87% of the cap by themselves. Raptors had the ability to make big moves, but they are at the cap with just Ibaka, Lowry, DeRosen and Valanciaus. Portland is in terrible, terrible shape. Lillard, Crabbe, McCollum, Turner, Harkless and Leonard has them 10% over the cap. No one other than Dame and maybe McCollum are difference makers.

Phoenix is in good shape, despite some poor contracts. Tyson and Dudley are their worst contracts and both expire in 2019. Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Josh Jackson only cost them about 40mm combined.

Philly needs to show some promise this year and they are the team to worry about. Embiid is the only core player coming off his rookie contract (cap hold of just 18mm) and everyone else is on rookie deals except Bayless. Reddick and Amir are both 1y deals.

Orlando has almost 70mm/year tied up in Byimbo, Fortiner, Vucevic, Ross and Augustin.

OKC either has no cap space, or all the cap space in the world. Russ, Paul George and Kanter can all walk next summer. If they walk, even with cap space, who cares? No one is signing in OKC to play with Roberson and Adams.

Don't know what is happening with Melo this year, but the Knicks have 55mm locked up in Noah, Hardaway, Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas. Ouch.

NOLA has 50mm tied into Brow+Jrue with Cousins a FA. Gonna have no cap room unless DeMarcus Boogies.

Minnesota won't have cap space next year. Their core 5 are ~75mm + Wiggins has to be resigned.

Milwaukee will only have the MLE.

Miami = Tyler Johnson+Whiteside+Goran+James Johnson+Waiters+KellyO = 100% of the cap.

Memphis. I think they start slow and blow it up. Great job dropping 100mm on Chandler Parsons' glass knees. Conley+Gasol+Parsons=80mm. I think Gasol gets moved. Gasol for LMA? Unite the Gasols and have the Torres Gemelos? Sign me up.

Lakers have Julius Randle and Brook Lopez as FAs and have Deng's bad contract. Other than that, most deals they have are reasonable.

Clippers won't have max room even after DeAndre Jordan opts out to sign with the Spurs. They could move things along for both teams by trading DJ for LMA.

Pacers can have max room. Come play with Dipo, Sabonis and Lance Stephenson!

Rockets have used about 80% of the cap before they resign Chris Paul, Trevor Ariza and Clint Capela.

Golden State is way over the luxury tax and will have 5-6 FAs.

Detroit is at 100% of the cap before trying to resign Avery Bradley. Lot of money for a 40 win team in a historically weak conference

Denver could be a player. Wilson Chandler and Darrel Arthur can opt out of their contracts and the only non-rookie contracts they will have are Millsap and Faried. Gary Harris and Will Barton will need to be resigned, though.

Dallas can have max room. Wes Matthews can opt out and they will only have Harrison Barnes (24m) and Dwight Powell (9m) on contracts over 5m. They will be a player next summer. But I think Harrison Barnes, Smith and a 95 year old Dirk isn't quite as exciting to play with as 2018 MVP Kawhi Leonard.

Cleveland is interesting. If Bron stays, they obviously don't have any room. But Bron could walk so he could play with Kawhi and DeAndre and Cleveland still doesn't have much room due to Love/Kyrie/Tristan/JR Smith/Korver's contracts.

Chicago will have lots of space. Robin Lopez is the only player making more than 8mm at 14mm. DWade and Zach Levine will be FAs.

Charlotte has 62mm tied up in Batum, Dwightmare, and Marvin Williams. They have another 46mm in Kemba/Zeller/Lamb/MKG.

Brooklyn can have lots of cap space, despite 31mm tied into Mozgov and DeMarre.

Boston's summer was this year. Next year have to resign Smart/Thomas and they are over the cap even with their small cap holds.

Finally, ATL can have cap space. But the pitch to play with Schroeder, Bazemore and Plumlee will be tough.

So teams with easy cap space:
Spurs (assuming opt outs by Green/LMA/Gay)
Bulls
Dallas
Brooklyn

Going to be a buyer's market for the Spurs who will have the best star by far.

Good breakdown but I think Lakers will have more room and obviously the big city / bright lights attraction. We'll probably only be third or fourth most desirable after Lakers, Brooklyn, Chicago.
Guitarsoup
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LA has to figure out how to dump Luol Deng's terrible contract. They still owe him 54mm. He shot .387/.309 last year. That's gonna be tough to move without losing a valuable asset. with so many teams already in luxury tax.

We probably aren't luring in LeBron (though he and Pop would be a match made in heaven), but we might be the right fit for DeAndre Jordan.
flashplayer
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Glad to see 'soup is on board with my Kawhi - Lebron- Deandre super team campaign. My only concern is who they'll complement those guys with.
Guitarsoup
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flashplayer said:

Glad to see 'soup is on board with my Kawhi - Lebron- Deandre super team campaign. My only concern is who they'll complement those guys with.
Patty, White, Murray, Gasol, Bertrans, four guys you have never heard of from countries you can't find on a map and a couple ring chasers.
FTAG 2000
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Guitarsoup said:

LA has to figure out how to dump Luol Deng's terrible contract. They still owe him 54mm. He shot .387/.309 last year. That's gonna be tough to move without losing a valuable asset. with so many teams already in luxury tax.

We probably aren't luring in LeBron (though he and Pop would be a match made in heaven), but we might be the right fit for DeAndre Jordan.
I don't see any chance LeBron comes to SA. DeAndre feels like it would be a great match, but I know he loves Los Angeles.
Guitarsoup
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He was going to sign with Dallas a couple years ago until Chris Paul kidnapped him, then forced his way out of LA. Clippers have a pretty hodge podge team and no room for improvement without some ridiculous things falling in their lap. 2018 will be DJ's 10th season in the NBA and he has three playoff series wins, all in different years.

Gotta cut bait at some point.

I agree that I don't think Bron comes to SA. But teams with an MVP candidate and max cap space will consist of one team.
Guitarsoup
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flashplayer
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Russell Westbrook has to be the backup plan for Lebron.

Westbrook + Kawhi + Jordan is pretty sick on both ends of the court.
Guitarsoup
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I can't imagine any circumstance where Pop signs Russ. They'd never find Russ' body.
flashplayer
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LOL. Yeah. Agreed. Maybe there's some other stud they could rake in as the 3rd leg of that foundation.
 
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