*****Spurs 2017 Offseason Thread*****

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flashplayer
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12:37p, 7/13/17
AG
I disagree with the assumption he's peaked. I know that's been thrown out before, but his age is just a #. He has few miles on him minutes wise and has barely been in the league. He could grow significantly in his game still. Another year with Pop and company will be great for him.

He's improved a ton since his summer league MVP campaign .
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to flashplayer • 12:39p, 7/13/17
AG
I would bet Chip Englandd has a pretty good idea of whether Simmons will ever hit 40% of his threes over a whole season.
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GatorAg03
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In reply to superunknown • 12:41p, 7/13/17
AG
I don't think anyone should be torn up if he left, but he probably has the highest year over year upside for next year of any player on the roster. If he plays like he did in the playoffs you won't find a better player in that price range, especially a 2 way player. At worst he can be a high energy slasher who plays defense. It's a big unknown if he can work on his shot, be consistent and realize that potential, but for a reasonable price it's worth the risk. I would definitely like a 1-2 year deal to see what he becomes. He is older, but doesnt have alot of NBA miles on his tires and is younger than many of the Spurs key players.
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flashplayer
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12:41p, 7/13/17
AG
Him hitting threes would be great, but really all we need him to do is be a poor man's Dwyane Wade on the 2nd team.
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GatorAg03
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12:45p, 7/13/17
AG
If he hits high 30% on his threes and close to 50% overall, he will be closer to an all star than a solid bench player. That's asking alot, but borderline all-star is his ceiling if he can improve his shot a little.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 12:46p, 7/13/17
AG
GatorAg03 said:
I don't think anyone should be torn up if he left, but he probably has the highest year over year upside for next year of any player on the roster. If he plays like he did in the playoffs you won't find a better player in that price range, especially a 2 way player. At worst he can be a high energy slasher who plays defense. It's a big unknown if he can work on his shot, be consistent and realize that potential, but for a reasonable price it's worth the risk. I would definitely like a 1-2 year deal to see what he becomes. He is older, but doesnt have alot of NBA miles on his tires and is younger than many of the Spurs key players.


Yeah it's a missed opportunity if he leaves. If the Spurs really offered something in $9 million range and he turned it down he needs to fire his agent. On paper he's not worth anywhere close to that and there are precious few spots to be had.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ag Natural • 12:48p, 7/13/17
AG
Quote:

Yeah it's a missed opportunity if he leaves. If the Spurs really offered something in $9 million range and he turned it down he needs to fire his agent.
I've heard that 9mm several times from several places.

Flashbacks to another Houston product - Stephen Jackson. Spurs offered him 3y10mm and he turned it down saying he was worth way more. No takers, Spurs traded for Hedo and didn't have money for SJax anymore. SJax settled for 1y1mm from Atlanta.
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Mike Elko
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In reply to flashplayer • 12:48p, 7/13/17
AG
flashplayer said:
I disagree with the assumption he's peaked. I know that's been thrown out before, but his age is just a #. He has few miles on him minutes wise and has barely been in the league. He could grow significantly in his game still. Another year with Pop and company will be great for him.

He's improved a ton since his summer league MVP campaign .
Agreed. You guys talk like 27 is old... Is his game 100% polished? Nope, but he's athletic, plays hard, and can create his own offense/defense. I'll be glad when the Spurs re-sign him.
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GatorAg03
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12:52p, 7/13/17
AG
Plus the guy will finally have figured out he belongs after his playoff run and will have a nice contract with another one coming soon to keep proving it. Confidence goes along way, especially when it comes to shooting, he certainly has the other skills. I'm predicting this will be the most important Spurs signing of the off-season (low bar I know) if they get this done.
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Guitarsoup
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12:56p, 7/13/17
AG
Giving giant long-term contracts to guys that played really well for a short amount of time in the playoffs but not elsewhere in the NBA is generally a losing proposition. Just ask Isiah Thomas about some of his Knicks signings.
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GatorAg03
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 1:00p, 7/13/17
AG
I don't think anyone here has ever proposed a giant long term contract for Simmons, but maybe I missed it. I agree that would be foolish.
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West Texan
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 1:01p, 7/13/17
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Giving giant long-term contracts to guys that played really well for a short amount of time in the playoffs but not elsewhere in the NBA is generally a losing proposition. Just ask Isiah Thomas about some of his Knicks signings.


This.

We all love Simmons and want him back, but you don't tie up a significant amount of money for several years to a guy who spent most of the season as your 10th guy off the bench. We all see the potential, but if PATFO thought him taking the next step was garunteed then they'd be willing to give him a longer deal.
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GatorAg03
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1:06p, 7/13/17
AG
sports/report-spurs-allow-jonathan-simmons-164254764.html

Article, without much insight on J Simmons situation.
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GatorAg03
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1:09p, 7/13/17
AG
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn


"Free agent Jonathon Simmons is talking to several teams on the market now, league sources tell ESPN. No assurance he returns to Spurs."


So my guess is the $9 million offer was what the Spurs pulled and they are hoping to get him for cheaper or less years? We will see if it works or not.
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Old Army Metal
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1:16p, 7/13/17
AG
My completely uninformed guess is that the Spurs are calling a bluff here.

"You think you're worth $10 million a year? Go out and prove it."

Win/win. Someone either overpays him and it solidifies the Spurs' reputation for finding hidden talent and developing players in their system, or he comes back cheaper than he would have been otherwise.
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GatorAg03
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In reply to Old Army Metal • 1:23p, 7/13/17
AG
Why would the Spurs care about their reputation in this scenario?

Also, most the FA money has already been thrown around this off season, so it's not exactly an open market comparison like it may have been had they made him a UFA earlier. It could be some hard feelings arose between the two parties in how both sides were handling this. I doubt Simmons comes back to be honest. It makes no sense to pull the current qualifying offer in that scenario, if you actually expect him back. We will see I suppose.
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flashplayer
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 1:34p, 7/13/17
AG
GatorAg03 said:
It makes no sense to pull the current qualifying offer in that scenario, if you actually expect him back. We will see I suppose.


RFA: Team A is the only team that offer Simmons a 3-4 year deal that he's probably hoping for, but at only 5 million per year. Simmons only offer from SA is 1 yr 9 million. He takes team A's offer - Spurs have to put him on the books for 4 years or lose him.

UFA: Same scenario, but Spurs can now counter-offer something shorter. Say 2 yr 15 million. It could work out better for both sides, especially if Simmons wants to stay in TX. I mostly mean to point out it gives the Spurs more laterality in negotiating to keep him. Also helps him get more contact with other teams.
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superunknown
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1:39p, 7/13/17
AG
Welp...

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superunknown
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1:40p, 7/13/17
AG
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GatorAg03
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In reply to flashplayer • 1:42p, 7/13/17
AG
Doesn't a restricted free agent just give Spurs the right to match? They can still offer 2 for $15 or any other offer with Simmons as a RFA and Simmons can decide which one he wants to take. RFA is an advantage for the team not the player.

I'm not a salary cap/CBA guru by any means, but I've never heard of RFA keeping the home team from offering the contract they want to offer.
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superunknown
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1:42p, 7/13/17
AG
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LawHall88
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1:42p, 7/13/17
AG
Quote:
In an unexpected move, the Spurs rescinded their $1.6 million qualifying offer to Simmons by renouncing his rights Thursday, allowing the 27-year-old guard to become an unrestricted free agent, league sources tell the Express-News.

The two sides couldn't come to an agreement on a new deal or a potential sign-and-trade.

League sources tell the Express-News the Spurs didn't offer Simmons their mid-level exception, which would give him a starting salary of $8.4 million next season.
Quote:
After talks on a new contract stalled, a sign-and-trade with the Phoenix Suns was presented. The deal featured the Spurs getting center Tyson Chandler in exchange for Simmons, but at the last minute, the Spurs backed out of the trade, not wanting to take on the remaining two years and roughly $26 million on Chandler's deal.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-renounce-rights-to-free-agent-guard-11286413.php
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GatorAg03
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In reply to LawHall88 • 1:46p, 7/13/17
AG
Thank goodness they backed out of that Chandler crap sandwich.
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Guitarsoup
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1:46p, 7/13/17
AG
Chandler is way overpaid consideirng he can't stay healthy. But when he is on the court, he still plays pretty well. Last year 11 & 15 per 36.
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GatorAg03
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1:50p, 7/13/17
AG
It must have been a pretty bad falling out with J Simmons for them to let him walk without seeing an offer come in. I'm really curious to see what he signs for.
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Guitarsoup
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1:51p, 7/13/17
AG
Matt Tynan is pretty well connected and he says there are real reasons there.
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 1:54p, 7/13/17
AG
GatorAg03 said:
It must have been a pretty bad falling out with J Simmons for them to let him walk without seeing an offer come in. I'm really curious to see what he signs for.


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GatorAg03
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2:05p, 7/13/17
AG
I mean almost getting traded to the Suns for Tyson Chandler is probably enough to make anyone crack, but is that enough to give up leverage on one of your best playoff performers? I bet there is more to it.
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Guitarsoup
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2:15p, 7/13/17
AG
http://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Cervando-Tejeda/157

SImmons' agent has a client list of Who's Who players? No really, I'm asking who, because I don't know who anyone there is.
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flashplayer
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2:20p, 7/13/17
AG
So this boils down to Simmons making a really bad selection on an agent who is chasing his first big payday? Wow. What a waste. Watch him sign with the Rockets for the BLE or whatever it is
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Mike Elko
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2:24p, 7/13/17
AG
Agents.
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flashplayer
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2:25p, 7/13/17
AG
Per Jabari Young, Simmons agents are no longer talking to the Spurs.
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CoachC16
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3:10p, 7/13/17
AG
So any ideas as to how we shore up the bench and who all is available to replace Simmons
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Old Army Metal
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In reply to CoachC16 • 3:11p, 7/13/17
AG
The_chum said:
who all is available to replace Simmons
Uhh ... Rudy Gay?
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Ag Natural
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3:42p, 7/13/17
AG
Well they signed Brandon Paul to a guaranteed deal. He's pretty athletic and has a nice outside jumper as well.

Honestly, if Simmons can't repair the relationship then its his loss. I hope for his family's sake he get a deal somewhere. But his career would have been better served in SA.

Looking at the Summer League team. It looks like Forbes has to be a lock to make the team again. Beyond that the only non-guaranteed guy I could see squeezing out a spot is Jefferson. I've been impressed with his defense and he's been able to knock down outside shots as well. Assuming they resign Pau there is that one last big man spot available.

Blossingame looks to be a nice defender and rebounds well for his position. Unfortunately for him, I just don't see a spot even if Simmons doesn't come back. He will need Manu to retire or just sign a GLeague deal.

This year has really reminded me why the Spurs often trades down out of the first round or drafts a foreign player and stash him. Having to guarantee 3 years even at a low price point is still a pain because that roster spot is locked up.
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