Guitarsoup said:

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and have Nene coming back from a torn groin at the ripe old age of 35.

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The irony, y'all think Parker will just come back and not skip a beat.

Y'all act like adding a veteran PG or SG would destroy this teams chemistry, its ignorant.

Have any of you seen Murray play? How about Forbes? Y'all want to ride with them? Lol

Kawhi is the only person that we know for sure can create and run the offense, that's a lot of pressure to put on one guy, and if you treat him like that, what makes him just say f it I'm out when it's time to re-sign?

It's not silly or dumb to think signing a guy like Rondo or Williams would help this team

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The irony, y'all think Parker will just come back and not skip a beat.

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Not a single person has said anything remotely similar to that.

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Y'all act like adding a veteran PG or SG would destroy this teams chemistry, its ignorant.

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No. You can't just add a PG in a vacuum. Other things had to happen. Other players had to be dumped. Would George Hill be an upgrade if you had to dump Green, Gasol, and Patty? I don't think so.

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Have any of you seen Murray play? How about Forbes? Y'all want to ride with them? Lol

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I wanted to upgrade the point. Parker wouldn't retire and there wasn't a good player that the Spurs could afford that wanted to come to SA.

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It's not silly or dumb to think signing a guy like Rondo or Williams would help this team

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There is no question that they would help the team. What money do we have to sign them?

Guitarsoup said:

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gibbs2016 said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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I think the Spurs are the 5th most talented team in the west behind GSW, Houston, OKC and even Minnesota.

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The go big to beat the warriors with Gasol and Aldridge strategy has mostly failed

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It failed by having Kawhi and Tony injured? Got it. Great take.

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Parker is still going to be injured starting next season and it is a complete unknown how well a 35-36 year old player will be able to recover from that sort of injury.

I agree with posters who feel not adding some veteran PG talent to the roster may come back to bite the Spurs in the butt.

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Yep, we could still make a run at Rose, Rondo, Deron Williams etc. need someone

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With what money?

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The longer those guys are unemployed the cheaper they get, make room, it won't hurt.

I know what most are thinking, just ride it out with Murray and or White and let them develope, not a bad idea in theory, but it could blow up in our face. Signing a vet takes pressure off the youngsters and gives them someone to lean on. Idk maybe I'm overreacting it's just how I feel about it

flashplayer said:

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The Spurs arguably have the best bench in the league if they bring everyone back. They won't beat GSW without the warriors running into injury woes, but neither will anyone else.

Simmons- definitely a bench player. What we saw in the playoffs was probably his ceiling. He will be in a better position to succeed against other backups. Keeps looking more and more like the Spurs are going to be able to bring him back on an affordable deal.

Mills - probably comes off the bench to start the season. Spurs need to know what they have with Dejounte and probably give Murray big minutes to start the year. Pop isn't huge on records, especially early on. I can see Mills starting later in the year if this experiment fails. Besides, Pop initially went to Murray when Parker was out. With Kawhi healthy, there's not a lot of reason to change that.

Gay - situational starter, depending on matchup. Gasol probably starts against bigger teams. We don't need him to be 34 min 18ppg 6rpg Rudy Gay. We just need him to shoot a similar percentage to last year on easier shots than he took last year, and be 20 min 10ppg 4rpg try hard on D Rudy Gay.

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Well said, agree with majority of that

Idk what the cap looks like, but ask one of the guys that haven't re-signed to take a cut.

Pau definitely isn't worth what he's been making, neither is Manu. 14 mil for Manu? Cut that in half

gibbs2016 said:

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Idk what the cap looks like, but ask one of the guys that haven't re-signed to take a cut.

Pau definitely isn't worth what he's been making, neither is Manu. 14 mil for Manu? Cut that in half

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Both are going to get significantly less next year than they did last year. That still doesn't clear any cap space.

The Spurs have the room exception and veteran minimum contracts. That's it. They have no cap space. If Rose or Rondo or anyone else would take the room exception, I'm sure the Spurs would jump all over it. But that's pretty unlikely.

Yes, it would have been great to sign a premier PG. The stars didn't align.

The Spurs have a veteran PG, Patty Mills.

I could see them signing a minimum priced vet but they may wait until training camp to see how the young guys are coming along. The problem is who? Deron Williams would be okay at the minimum. I think Rondo and Rose are both disasters. Ray Felton would have been the ideal type guy but he just signed. Are there anymore aging PGS out there hanging on? Ironically, Tony Parker is probably the best fit but he's not making the minimum.

D-Will is trash. Keep him away from SA.

@gibbs...Not a single living being thinks Parker is going to return and look anything like his old self. Not even the most deranged Spurs fan thinks that. Hell, many are skeptical that he will see any action next year.

As Guitarsoup pointed out, Rondo or any of those guys is not a long term answer and would hinder the Spurs cap situation next year unless they agreed to a one-year minimum deal...Which is incredibly unlikely to happen

10-4, not the most intelligent NBA cap guy here lol.... I think White will surprise people anyway, I just thought a vet presence would be nice..

So exactly how much cap space are we in for next off-season? Should be a **** load, right?

100 million minus Kawhi, Patty, Murray, and White salaries. So at least 60 million right now if LMA and Gay opt out. Over 30 if both opt in.

Neither of those factors in Gasol or Simmons or anyone else they sign to multi year deals this summer. No idea what they'll give either.

Also, Patty, Murray, and White will all be on very friendly (and tradeable) contracts- Gasol and Simmons probably also for that matter. So it's worth considering 100 million minus Kawhis contract and whatever you can't trade away.

The only guys that cannot become a free agent next summer are:

Kawhi: 20mm
Patty: ~12mm
White: 1.6mm

Murray is a team option that the Spurs will obviously take.

Murray: 1.5mm

Last year of dead cap for Duncan: ~1.8

Roster spot hold if you waive rights to all other players: 4.6mm

So about 60mm, give or take.

That assumes everyone opts out (LMA, Green, Gay) and we don't sign any more multi-year deals (Gasol) and we waive the rights to Parker, SloMo, Forbes, and Bertrans.

Best bet next year is convincing LMA to opt out and re-sign after you use the 50-60 million in cap space. That could buy you an all-NBA level talent plus a really good side piece to roll out with Kawhi and LMA.

Though I doubt they do anything like that.

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As Guitarsoup pointed out, Rondo or any of those guys is not a long term answer and would hinder the Spurs cap situation next year unless they agreed to a one-year minimum deal...Which is incredibly unlikely to happen

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If any of those guys took a min deal, it would likely be a 1 year deal so they can prove their worth and hit the market next year. Similar to what David Lee did this year.

The problem is I think Rose and Rondo think they did that last year and want their reward this year.

Available PGs:

Rose
Rondo
Ty Lawson (averaged 10/5 for Sacramento and stayed out of trouble)
Deron Williams (Pierce called him an unmotivated underachiever that can't handle pressure - not sure that's Pop material)
Brandon Jennings. Yeah, don't really see him as a Spur.
Ramon Sessions. Would probably take the vet min.
Trey Burke. Didn't play a lot stuck behind Paul Wall. Excellent shooter, put up good numbers on bad Utah teams before If he would take our room exception, I think this would be a solid pickup.

Not much else out there. I don't see the Spurs being especially attractive for these guys since we just gave Patty 50mm, we are developing Murray, who has shown flashes of promise and Tony is still on the team. They sure don't want to take the minimum to become 4th string in Pop's doghouse. Burke is at least an excellent shooter so as long as he could play some D, he could play off ball.

flashplayer said:

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Best bet next year is convincing LMA to opt out and re-sign after you use the 50-60 million in cap space. That could buy you an all-NBA level talent plus a really good side piece to roll out with Kawhi and LMA.

Though I doubt they do anything like that.

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Doesn't work that way. Spurs actually have more cap space if LMA stays on his current contract. If he opts out, his cap hold will be much larger than the 22mm contract he will have if he stays.

That only really works with young players like Simmons. Simmons was on a min contract, so his cap hold is only 1.6mm until we resign him (8-10mm, probably.)

Ah, damn. Well in all reality then wouldn't they only have about 35 million or so to play with then if they want the keep Lamarcus?

If they can keep him at his current salary, they could have 40mm to play with, but that is waiving Danny, Manu, Gasol, Parker, Gay, etc.

40mm of space gets you:
Kawhi
LMA
Patty
White
Murray

Guitarsoup said:

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Last year of dead cap for Duncan: ~1.8

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Pachuglia is back in the bay. I was hoping he'd sign with the Mavericks because he wouldn't be playing in meaningful games, that way he couldn't significantly alter the complexion of late round playoff series with his cheap shot tactics. I still think it's no doubt that he ruined the western conference finals. I watched game 2, but quit after that. The outcome was inevitable.

So the Spurs could sign DeMarcus Cousins next off season.. Is he still a head case? Could Pop control him? Just thinking outside the box, I know I'm worse than spurstalk

Think I'm leaning on the roll with White and Murray at pg idea. Screw it throw them in the fire, that's what we did with Parker in 01 And he turned out okay. Maybe we'll get lucky and one blossoms

Too bad Andre Miller finally retired. He'd be perfect.

I've been watching a lot of summer league and there are a bunch of nice looking PGs. The problem is its summer league and you can't definitely say anyone who would be available is clearly better than Murray, White and Forbes.

The highlight of the day was seeing Lonzo Ball go 2 for 15 in his debut. I don't think I've ever rooted against a rookie like I will be with Ball. He's so overhyped despite not being athletic or a good shooter. He passes the ball.. whoopee.. so does Alex Caruso. And Caruso plays defense.

https://instagr.am/p/BWQqA8ig1va

Good write up about the Spurs depth they've been able to build.

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/7/6/15921056/san-antonio-spurs-nba-best-deep-rotation

That deep bench strategy also allows you to get more out of old aging or injured but skilled veterans, that often are below market value. Gasol, Gay, Lee, Manu, etc. So it helps greatly with the salary cap.

You also have to draft well so you don't have misses on the end of your bench and must develop players and not be afraid to play them. You also have to have stars that are willing to have lower numbers due to less minutes to the sake of the team.

Unfortunately come playoffs you have to shorten the bench a little get away from this strategy and we saw arguably our two best players go down this off-season despite all the regular season rest.

I think it's a good strategy to employ, especially for the regular season. I'm convinced you could give Pop almost any roster in the league and he will win you 50 games within a year or two. He has the system down.

I still think you need a couple high end players come playoffs to win it all though. If Spurs can find a legit side kick for Kawhi then they have a great chance. Would be awesome if Gay comes back better than ever, but that's asking alot. I still don't think the Spurs have found that necessary #2 player for Kawhi, that will be needed to win another championship.

Just saw Jamal Crawford is free agent. If manu calls it quits I'd love him to get a look. May not be an ideal spur but he can light it up

The_chum said:

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Just saw Jamal Crawford is free agent. If manu calls it quits I'd love him to get a look. May not be an ideal spur but he can light it up

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He's not high on my list. Old volume scorer. 41/35 shooter. Meh.

Prefer:

Trey Burke
Mason Plumlee
JaMychal Green
Dedmon
David Lee
Alan Williams
Willie Reed
Speights
Thomas Robinson

Guitarsoup said:

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I still think it is possible to win it without a legit #2 player if you have 3-4 #3 players. Just like SA did in 2014 and Detroit did in 04.

In 2014, the Spurs had 8 guys average 9ppg or more and 0 guys average 17ppg or more. We basically had 4 #3 scorers and 4 dead eye shooters (Beli, Diaw, Green, Patty all over .400 from three while averaging 9-11ppg) then CoJo and Splitter. Also had Bonner still filling it up on the end of the bench, hitting 43% of his threes.

Spurs have Kawhi and two #3 players in LMAo and Gay. If Juice can play like he did in Game 3 of Houston to the end of the playoffs, he will be a legit #3 player (~15 points/3 assists, creates own shot, plays elite defense.) If Parker comes back healthy, that could be a 4th #3 scorer (he was our #2 scorer when he was hurt, despite laying a goose egg vs Conley)

Spurs need:

1. TP to come back healthy
2. Simmons, Murray to keep progressing/developing a consistent 3pt shot
3. A solid vet big player (Dedmon coming back would be ideal)
4. Gay to buy in and play D, learn to pass

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If You remove the best player from the Spurs (Kawhi) and remove the best player from the Warriors (Durant) and then what is left play each other...the Warriors probably win 9 out of 10 games. and the Spurs specifically on that matchup did really nothing this offseason to move the needle IMO. They mostly stayed the course other than adding Gay.

Fortunately the Spurs do have Kawhi but if they collide with GSW in playoffs, for the Spurs to have a chance Kawhi will probably need to be at 110% health wise and also play at least at a LeBron-Esque level.

Guitarsoup said:

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If You remove the best player from the Spurs and remove the best player from the Warriors

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If your aunt had nuts, she'd be your uncle. We get it, the Warriors built a super team.

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Well isn't that what part of the conversation is about on this thread? Whether the Spurs shoulda, coulda, mighta done something different this offseason to compete vs Warriors? Whether Spurs can compete with LMA as the 'second best player'? Seems like that is what the media often likes to talk about.

Ag Natural said:

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How bout if Kawhi is healthy and Durant breaks his foot again? I'll take the Spurs in that scenario which even more likely than each team losing a star.

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It would have been interesting to see if Warriors without Durant could have beaten Cavs this year. I actually lean towards Cavs in 7 if that had been the case. a true rematch.

Ag Natural said:

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How bout if Kawhi is healthy and Durant breaks his foot again? I'll take the Spurs in that scenario which even more likely than each team losing a star.

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I merely used that analogy because the conservation seemed to be about the quality of the supporting cast around Kawhi.