For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
*****Spurs 2017 Offseason Thread*****
206,745 Views |
1963 Replies |
Last: 7 yr ago by LawHall88
Parker is still going to be injured starting next season and it is a complete unknown how well a 35-36 year old player will be able to recover from that sort of injury.Guitarsoup said:Quote:
I think the Spurs are the 5th most talented team in the west behind GSW, Houston, OKC and even Minnesota.It failed by having Kawhi and Tony injured? Got it. Great take.Quote:
The go big to beat the warriors with Gasol and Aldridge strategy has mostly failed
I agree with posters who feel not adding some veteran PG talent to the roster may come back to bite the Spurs in the butt.
The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
Yall are really overestimating OKC and Minnesota. Did they improve? Yes. But Minnesota wasn't even a playoff team and OKC was the 7 seed. Paul George is a great player, but he's not KD and they don't scare me like the OKC teams of a few years ago. Minnesota added some really good players, but they're still super young and not deep. Houston may have passed us, but we're not falling to 4th or 5th.
We had zero chance of beating GSW without Kawhi. I don't really expect anyone on the team to turn into Jordan without two of our best players against one of the best built teams in the last few decades.Quote:
It may seem extreme, but we have a bunch of old, injured players outside of Kawhi. Look at how they folded once Kawhi went down as exhibit A.
Trash take. You really think OKC would have faired better than us without Russ? Utah without Gordie? Houston without Harden? Look how Houston folded in game 6? Utah got swept with Gordon. OKC was getting outscored by like 50 or 60 points per 100 possessions with Russ on the bench. Beyond terrible take.Quote:
Every other team I named would have faired better without their best player. Simmons straight out of the D league was legitimately our best player at the end of the year.
Quote:
Now add an extra year to all these old all-stars a couple of which are injured and the talent level is nowhere as near as high as the names.
We also have a lot of young guys that are progressing. Simmons notably played well. If he is playing on that level again for the 18 season, Spurs have a legitimate upgrade at wing. Murray will likely continue to progress. Gasol will likely be similar to what he was this year, same with LMA. We weren't counting on Manu or Tony for much other than leadership anyway.
LMA is still a top ~5 at his position of PF. I'd move him in a heart beat, but he is still valuable, which is why Pop didn't firesale him.Quote:
If LMA is a top 20 player again then this can change, but right now I'm not certain he is top 40.
Not all the teams have elite two-way talent. I wouldn't trade Kawhi for anyone else in the WC. Doesn't matter to me if you can create 40 points per game if you are giving up 50.Quote:
Rank the teams top to bottom on talent and see who you would trade for who. Obviously Kawhi being elite helps but all those teams have elite top 10 talent too.
Guitarsoup said:The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
This. Plus, George Hill is not an elite PG, and while I would have rolled the dice on Paul, he is also old and HOU and wouldve required us blowing things up a bit more.
Bingo.West Texan said:
Yall are really overestimating OKC and Minnesota. Did they improve? Yes. But Minnesota wasn't even a playoff team and OKC was the 7 seed. Paul George is a great player, but he's not KD and they don't scare me like the OKC teams of a few years ago. Minnesota added some really good players, but they're still super young and not deep. Houston may have passed us, but we're not falling to 4th or 5th.
Minnesota has a nice starting 5, but they have no bench.
Same with OKC. Nice starting five, but outside Kanter (who had to be benched for the playoffs because he is so worthless on defense) they have nothing.
And the Spurs have better coaching than any other team in the WC.
Name the teams you would trade our roster for:GatorAg03 said:
Rank the teams top to bottom on talent and see who you would trade for who. Obviously Kawhi being elite helps but all those teams have elite top 10 talent too.
Golden State and who?
Guitarsoup said:The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
Spurfan loves to complain about not making FA splash moves even though that's never been our MO.
Spurfan also wants to alter a 61 win team that earned a WCF berth without our top 2 scorers last playoffs.
Spurfan needs to settle down.
George Hill has started all but about 10 games that he has been healthy for in the last five years and he topped 4.7 assists per game in just one season.Malcolm52 said:Guitarsoup said:The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
This. Plus, George Hill is not an elite PG, and while I would have rolled the dice on Paul, he is also old and HOU and wouldve required us blowing things up a bit more.
He is a great defender, a decent scorer and shooter, but with his injury history, I don't think we are a significantly better team by cutting our depth, getting rid of glue guys like Danny Green and overpaying him ~20mm/year. If he would have taken ~13-15mm, I would have been for it. But I don't think he is worth what he got, especially with his injury history (less than 50 games in two of the last three years.)
I still think the Spurs are a 2 seed out west. Spurs finished 6 games ahead of Houston for the 2 seed and were 14 games better than OKC. Houston may have a shot to catch them but I wouldnt overlook the loss of Beverly and it will take time for Paul and Harden to settle in to their roles and rotations. No way Paul George gets OKC an extra 14 wins.
They were a 47 win team (6th seed in the West not 7th) with this typical starting lineup last season:West Texan said:
Yall are really overestimating OKC and Minnesota. Did they improve? Yes. But Minnesota wasn't even a playoff team and OKC was the 7 seed. Paul George is a great player, but he's not KD and they don't scare me like the OKC teams of a few years ago. Minnesota added some really good players, but they're still super young and not deep. Houston may have passed us, but we're not falling to 4th or 5th.
Westbrook
Oladipo
Roberson
Taj Gibson
Adams
and now next season their typical starting lineup will be:
Westbrook
Roberson
Paul George
Patrick Patterson
Adams
Paul George is a massive talent upgrade over Oladipo and Patterson is a much better outside shooter for spacing purposes than Gibson was.
They could be a lot better, if George and Westbrook are able to develop good chemistry and mesh well.
I wasn't clear on what I meant. I meant the west next year. You take out Westbrook and you still have George. Houston would have Paul, Minnesota would have Wiggins and Towns if Butler goes down.
We have a handful of aging or injured former all-stars outside of Kawhi.
We have a handful of aging or injured former all-stars outside of Kawhi.
tbirdspur2010 said:Guitarsoup said:The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
Spurfan loves to complain about not making FA splash moves even though that's never been our MO.
Spurfan also wants to alter a 61 win team that earned a WCF berth without our top 2 scorers last playoffs.
Spurfan needs to settle down.
It's like reading spurstalk some days.
West Texan said:tbirdspur2010 said:Guitarsoup said:The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
Spurfan loves to complain about not making FA splash moves even though that's never been our MO.
Spurfan also wants to alter a 61 win team that earned a WCF berth without our top 2 scorers last playoffs.
Spurfan needs to settle down.
It's like reading spurstalk some days.
I only frequent that cesspool after wins lol. The Zoo is a picnic compared to ST.
And they have less depth, too. It's a long season. I expect OKC to be better, but not a 60+ win team. Barring major injuries, I don't expect any WC teams to win 60 games other than the Spurs and the Warriors (who will win the west with 65+ wins again.)
Pumpkinhead said:They were a 47 win team (6th seed in the West not 7th) with this typical starting lineup last season:West Texan said:
Yall are really overestimating OKC and Minnesota. Did they improve? Yes. But Minnesota wasn't even a playoff team and OKC was the 7 seed. Paul George is a great player, but he's not KD and they don't scare me like the OKC teams of a few years ago. Minnesota added some really good players, but they're still super young and not deep. Houston may have passed us, but we're not falling to 4th or 5th.
Westbrook
Oladipo
Roberson
Taj Gibson
Adams
and now next season their typical starting lineup will be:
Westbrook
Roberson
Paul George
Patrick Patterson
Adams
Paul George is a massive talent upgrade over Oladipo and Patterson is a much better outside shooter for spacing purposes than Gibson was.
They could be a lot better, if George and Westbrook are able to develop good chemistry and mesh well.
Patrick Patterson is not a better player than Taj Gibson by any stretch of the imagination. He might be a better floor spacer, but he doesn't make their team better. Like I said, they improved by adding Paul George, but he's not KD and they won't finish above us.
We have more depth than any other team in the WC. We have the best defense in the league. We have the best coaching in the league.
I would trade the Spurs' team for the Warriors and that's it.
I would trade the Spurs' team for the Warriors and that's it.
tbirdspur2010 said:West Texan said:tbirdspur2010 said:Guitarsoup said:The Spurs won 61 games last year and was up 25 points against GSW without elite PG play.GatorAg03 said:
For me the PG position should have been upgraded. Paul in a perfect world but no lower than Hill was my hope. You can't contend in the West without elite PG play.
Would have been great to get an elite PG, but it didn't happen. We are still likely the #2 team in the West.
Spurfan loves to complain about not making FA splash moves even though that's never been our MO.
Spurfan also wants to alter a 61 win team that earned a WCF berth without our top 2 scorers last playoffs.
Spurfan needs to settle down.
It's like reading spurstalk some days.
I only frequent that cesspool after wins lol. The Zoo is a picnic compared to ST.
I go there when the off-season starts to the think tank forum. They've always got some good stuff on potential draft prospects, are guys that are stashed, etc. but I inevitably end up wandering to the main forum and am reminded why I don't read it during the season.
Oh yeah the Think Tank is decent but I always forget to check it.
Yeah, I don't see OKC as a 60 win regular season team. I'm thinking most likely, they will end up being like a really dangerous 4 or 5 seed in the Western Conference playoffs.Guitarsoup said:
And they have less depth, too. It's a long season. I expect OKC to be better, but not a 60+ win team. Barring major injuries, I don't expect any WC teams to win 60 games other than the Spurs and the Warriors (who will win the west with 65+ wins again.)
But there is also a chance they really mesh well and are even better than that IMO. We'll see.
The thing about the above roster differences is that last season Westbrook was with a bunch of guys who couldn't shoot the three very well. Now he has George and Patterson who are both much better three point shooters than Oladipo or Gibson.West Texan said:Pumpkinhead said:They were a 47 win team (6th seed in the West not 7th) with this typical starting lineup last season:West Texan said:
Yall are really overestimating OKC and Minnesota. Did they improve? Yes. But Minnesota wasn't even a playoff team and OKC was the 7 seed. Paul George is a great player, but he's not KD and they don't scare me like the OKC teams of a few years ago. Minnesota added some really good players, but they're still super young and not deep. Houston may have passed us, but we're not falling to 4th or 5th.
Westbrook
Oladipo
Roberson
Taj Gibson
Adams
and now next season their typical starting lineup will be:
Westbrook
Roberson
Paul George
Patrick Patterson
Adams
Paul George is a massive talent upgrade over Oladipo and Patterson is a much better outside shooter for spacing purposes than Gibson was.
They could be a lot better, if George and Westbrook are able to develop good chemistry and mesh well.
Patrick Patterson is not a better player than Taj Gibson by any stretch of the imagination. He might be a better floor spacer, but he doesn't make their team better. Like I said, they improved by adding Paul George, but he's not KD and they won't finish above us.
It isn't so much that Patterson is a better player than Gibson, but from what I've read, there is a feeling that he might be a much better fit on the Thunder with Westbrook's game than Gibson was. Obviously we'll find out.
Its not just Spurs fans underrating the Spurs. Its human nature to believe making moves is better than not making moves. What's ironic, is that continuity is pretty important in basketball. So you could easily argue that making too many moves every year will hold you back. The Spurs have always understood this. Hell, last year should have been a down year because of all the turnover. Instead they win 61 games and had a pretty good gameplan to deal with GSW... and then the injuries.
So now we have:
Houston - Adds Paul and Tucker. But loses Beverly. They also now change gears again after a great year from Harden at the PG. Can Paul and Harden play together? I think its a as big of a question mark as there is.
OKC - Added George but lost Olidipo, who has been the most disrespected player in the league. The dude is not trash. He had a really good year despite having to watch Westbrook log the highest usage rate in NBA history. George is very good but he's not some super clutch star. Their potential defensive lineup is pretty damn scary but still there are questions.
Utah - Looks very good but young. They lose Hill and Hayward but gain Rubio and have Exum and Mitchel as young potential. A great coach once said all potential does is get you fired.
Minn - Made a statement for sure but they were supposed to be good last year. I suspect Butler and Teague will be a huge upgrade and they are scary. But once again, potential potential potential.
Clips - Doubled down on an injury prone Griffen and I bet Austin Rivers starts at PG for them. Galinari is now a major piece.. a lot of turnover here and anyone making a prediction is just guessing.
Memphis - Cleaned house a bit but still has their two stars. Will they still make a move?
Denver - Could have the most potential of all the young teams. Nokic and Milsap should be great but will their guards step up?
Portland - Doesn't look much better to me but that might be okay. They ended the year pretty strong. They might have the most continuity of any playoff team other than GSW and Spurs.
GSW - Ridiculously reloaded again. Durant takes a freaking paycut, its just fantasy land over there. Lucky *******s. I don't see less than 65 wins and if healthy will be very tough for anyone to beat. That being said, Durant and Curry both have had injuries so there is always a chance for the second best team.
Lakers and Phoenix will be fun but will suck again. Dallas and New Orleans have some great pieces as well but its hard to predict anything.
So now we have:
Houston - Adds Paul and Tucker. But loses Beverly. They also now change gears again after a great year from Harden at the PG. Can Paul and Harden play together? I think its a as big of a question mark as there is.
OKC - Added George but lost Olidipo, who has been the most disrespected player in the league. The dude is not trash. He had a really good year despite having to watch Westbrook log the highest usage rate in NBA history. George is very good but he's not some super clutch star. Their potential defensive lineup is pretty damn scary but still there are questions.
Utah - Looks very good but young. They lose Hill and Hayward but gain Rubio and have Exum and Mitchel as young potential. A great coach once said all potential does is get you fired.
Minn - Made a statement for sure but they were supposed to be good last year. I suspect Butler and Teague will be a huge upgrade and they are scary. But once again, potential potential potential.
Clips - Doubled down on an injury prone Griffen and I bet Austin Rivers starts at PG for them. Galinari is now a major piece.. a lot of turnover here and anyone making a prediction is just guessing.
Memphis - Cleaned house a bit but still has their two stars. Will they still make a move?
Denver - Could have the most potential of all the young teams. Nokic and Milsap should be great but will their guards step up?
Portland - Doesn't look much better to me but that might be okay. They ended the year pretty strong. They might have the most continuity of any playoff team other than GSW and Spurs.
GSW - Ridiculously reloaded again. Durant takes a freaking paycut, its just fantasy land over there. Lucky *******s. I don't see less than 65 wins and if healthy will be very tough for anyone to beat. That being said, Durant and Curry both have had injuries so there is always a chance for the second best team.
Lakers and Phoenix will be fun but will suck again. Dallas and New Orleans have some great pieces as well but its hard to predict anything.
Add to it. Houston added Paul and Tucker. But they lost Lou Williams (18ppg scorer last year), Trez Harrell (9/4 as backup center), Pat Bev (heart of team, 10/6/4 as a starter) and have Nene coming back from a torn groin at the ripe old age of 35.
Rockets bench from -> to
Eric Gordon -> Eric Gordon
Lou Williams -> PJ Tucker
Healthy 34yo Nene -> 35yo Nene coming off season ending torn groin
Trez Harrell -> Zhou Qi
Sam Dekker -> \_()_/
I think they will be marginally better than they were, but not significantly better. With Nene/Ariza another step slower and no Bev, their defense is going to suffer a great deal, even with Paul.
Utah is not going to win 50 games.
OKC upgraded, but I don't think they will be as good as the Clippers have been the past few years.
Minnesota is probably a year or so away from really scaring anyone and their only worthwhile bench player is Dieng.
Portland is in Lux Tax hell. I think the team will blow up before you know it. Can't pay that much to have a 45-50 win team.
GSW is who we thought they were.
Rockets bench from -> to
Eric Gordon -> Eric Gordon
Lou Williams -> PJ Tucker
Healthy 34yo Nene -> 35yo Nene coming off season ending torn groin
Trez Harrell -> Zhou Qi
Sam Dekker -> \_()_/
I think they will be marginally better than they were, but not significantly better. With Nene/Ariza another step slower and no Bev, their defense is going to suffer a great deal, even with Paul.
Utah is not going to win 50 games.
OKC upgraded, but I don't think they will be as good as the Clippers have been the past few years.
Minnesota is probably a year or so away from really scaring anyone and their only worthwhile bench player is Dieng.
Portland is in Lux Tax hell. I think the team will blow up before you know it. Can't pay that much to have a 45-50 win team.
GSW is who we thought they were.
Havent ventured onto ST in a long ass time. I think the 3492nd version of "Bonner, Bowen, the rights to Slobwickan Aogjdkskg and Finley's expiring contract for LBJ and Cleveland's 1st round pick in 2063, lottery protected. Checks out in the Trade Machine!!" thread is when i left.
I think the last time I went to ST was during the Jason Kidd sweepstakes. What was that, probably 10+ years ago if not more.
Like '03 or so lol
I remember on the SI issue of the Spurs 2003 title with David Robinson on the cover, they'd superimposed a pic in the corner of Kidd in a Spurs jersey with the caption "could it happen?" or something like that.
I remember on the SI issue of the Spurs 2003 title with David Robinson on the cover, they'd superimposed a pic in the corner of Kidd in a Spurs jersey with the caption "could it happen?" or something like that.
I hope Manu plays another year
still have that one, i remember when everybody thought parker was gone and kidd was a sure deal
I was playing golf at la cantera during the kidd recruitment
Helicopters circled the resort the whole time
Glad he didnt come here
Helicopters circled the resort the whole time
Glad he didnt come here
Why, are you afraid of helicopters?MookieBlaylock said:
I was playing golf at la cantera during the kidd recruitment
Helicopters circled the resort the whole time
Glad he didnt come here
Just tried to go to Spurs Talk and Google wouldn't let me go there. Said it was a Malware/Phishing site.
Yep, we could still make a run at Rose, Rondo, Deron Williams etc. need someonePumpkinhead said:Parker is still going to be injured starting next season and it is a complete unknown how well a 35-36 year old player will be able to recover from that sort of injury.Guitarsoup said:Quote:
I think the Spurs are the 5th most talented team in the west behind GSW, Houston, OKC and even Minnesota.It failed by having Kawhi and Tony injured? Got it. Great take.Quote:
The go big to beat the warriors with Gasol and Aldridge strategy has mostly failed
I agree with posters who feel not adding some veteran PG talent to the roster may come back to bite the Spurs in the butt.
With what money?gibbs2016 said:Yep, we could still make a run at Rose, Rondo, Deron Williams etc. need someonePumpkinhead said:Parker is still going to be injured starting next season and it is a complete unknown how well a 35-36 year old player will be able to recover from that sort of injury.Guitarsoup said:Quote:
I think the Spurs are the 5th most talented team in the west behind GSW, Houston, OKC and even Minnesota.It failed by having Kawhi and Tony injured? Got it. Great take.Quote:
The go big to beat the warriors with Gasol and Aldridge strategy has mostly failed
I agree with posters who feel not adding some veteran PG talent to the roster may come back to bite the Spurs in the butt.
The Spurs arguably have the best bench in the league if they bring everyone back. They won't beat GSW without the warriors running into injury woes, but neither will anyone else.
Simmons- definitely a bench player. What we saw in the playoffs was probably his ceiling. He will be in a better position to succeed against other backups. Keeps looking more and more like the Spurs are going to be able to bring him back on an affordable deal.
Mills - probably comes off the bench to start the season. Spurs need to know what they have with Dejounte and probably give Murray big minutes to start the year. Pop isn't huge on records, especially early on. I can see Mills starting later in the year if this experiment fails. Besides, Pop initially went to Murray when Parker was out. With Kawhi healthy, there's not a lot of reason to change that.
Gay - situational starter, depending on matchup. Gasol probably starts against bigger teams. We don't need him to be 34 min 18ppg 6rpg Rudy Gay. We just need him to shoot a similar percentage to last year on easier shots than he took last year, and be 20 min 10ppg 4rpg try hard on D Rudy Gay.
Simmons- definitely a bench player. What we saw in the playoffs was probably his ceiling. He will be in a better position to succeed against other backups. Keeps looking more and more like the Spurs are going to be able to bring him back on an affordable deal.
Mills - probably comes off the bench to start the season. Spurs need to know what they have with Dejounte and probably give Murray big minutes to start the year. Pop isn't huge on records, especially early on. I can see Mills starting later in the year if this experiment fails. Besides, Pop initially went to Murray when Parker was out. With Kawhi healthy, there's not a lot of reason to change that.
Gay - situational starter, depending on matchup. Gasol probably starts against bigger teams. We don't need him to be 34 min 18ppg 6rpg Rudy Gay. We just need him to shoot a similar percentage to last year on easier shots than he took last year, and be 20 min 10ppg 4rpg try hard on D Rudy Gay.
Featured Stories
See All
27:26
7h ago
3.0k
19:50
21h ago
8.0k
4:28
7h ago
692
Game Highlights: No. 8 Texas A&M 69, Georgia 53
by Matthew Dawson
Photo Gallery: No. 8 Texas A&M 69, Georgia 53
by Zoe Kelton
3 Days 'til: Outlining what Texas A&M's 'best version' looks like in 2025
by Ryan Brauninger